Reversing osteoporosis naturally.

[skinnykangal]

Bone density – success story – thus far!

Summary

I am writing this to share my success thus far in reversing osteoporosis naturally using a combination of diet and exercise. I hope this may encourage others to believe it can be done.

Introduction

When this journey started in Feb 2020 I was 56 years old, weighed around 60kg and would have considered myself to have a fairly healthy diet and an active lifestyle.

A new doctor querying my age during an annual check-up at the gynae clinic prompted a bone density scan which produced T and Z scores as below:

Feb 2020 T-Score Z-Score

Left Femur -1.5 -1.0

Spine -2.4 -1.5

This showed osteopenia in my left femur, with my lower spine hovering on the border between osteopenia and osteoporosis. I was prescribed soluble calcium tablets and vitamin D3 as drops to be taken with food.

In May 2021 my T and Z scores were worse:

May 2021 T-Score Z-Score

Left Femur -1.6 -1.0

Spine -2.8 -1.5

I was shocked at the deterioration which now showed clear osteoporosis in my lower spine.

During this period between Feb 2020 and May 2021 I had made no changes to my diet to combat osteoporosis. I partly put this down to me not having taken the time to consider what a serious condition this could be and partly to it being the covid era where thoughts were elsewhere.

I had not been able to exercise as much as I would like, and in fact when I did exercise I was focussing on cycling rather than my usual hiking – this was to help my husband who was dealing with hip arthritis and found cycling less painful than hiking.

Also during covid era I had resorted to a LOT of comfort food (& drink).

At that consultation in May 2021, I was prescribed Fosamax. The following morning I took the first pill, as instructed, had an appalling reaction and vowed I would never take another. The pill, or fraction of it that I consumed, caused violent diarrhoea after 10 minutes or so, violent vomiting after a further 10 minutes or so, a strong headache that lasted more than a day and bone ache in my lower spine that lasted about 3 days. During those days I could stand up straight but could not bend forward, left or right without feeling I was about to snap my spine. I was very afraid and thought the Fosamax had crippled me.

Needless to say, after such a terrible experience, my husband & I scoured the internet partly checking out other people’s reactions to Fosamax and partly looking for ideas on alternative ways to combat osteoporosis.

We found several very useful sources of information – thank you to everyone who makes an effort to put their findings out there!

The Diet & Exercise Regime

From early June 2021 I embarked on a low glycaemic index 80:20 alkaline diet with regular exercise including brisk walking, arm work with resistance bands and yoga.

The aim was always to promote improved bone density: my goal was not weight loss, or going “totally alkaline” or anything else – I was fully focussed on encouraging bone development.

How did I start ?

1.By cutting out the bad stuff.

I greatly reduced, but did not eliminate, from my diet the following: meat, wheat, sugar, dairy, eggs, caffeine, salt, processed foods and fizzy drinks. I limited my alcohol to 1 or 2 glasses of wine every 3rd day.

And

2. Promoting the good stuff.

I consume between 7-9 pieces or portions of vegetable or fruit daily (fruit is usually only 1 or 1 ½ portions of the total). There is a world of veg out there - it is easy to vary the diet and eat a wide range of vegetables.

Legumes and fresh seafish (mainly salmon and sardines) are my main sources of protein.

Snacks are mainly of or derived from seeds and some nuts – for example home-made energy bars using tahini, oats and almonds.

I drink a minimum of 2 litres of water daily.

In June 2021 I started taking over-the-counter calcium, vitamin D3 and vitamin K2.

Importantly on this 80:20 diet nothing is forbidden – just keep the harmful stuff in the 20% zone.

I do eat food that does not promote bone growth and may in fact create an environment which leaches calcium from bones, cheese for example, but I do it occasionally and in small amounts.

The exercise regime developed gradually and currently is 3 yoga classes per week and 4 or 5 brisk walks per week. Each walk is around 8km and includes some hills. Recently I have started jogging parts of the walking route.

After 6 months.....

In December 2021 I had a bone density scan and showed improved bone density.

Dec 2021 T-Score Z-Score

Left Femur -1.5 -0.8

Spine -2.1 -0.7

A clear improvement – now both spine and left femur were in the osteopenia zone with the lower spine nudging closer to the normal range.

The technician who carried out the tests could not believe the results and said “I don’t know what you are doing but just keep doing it!”. The doctor was equally impressed but did not inquire closely on how it had been done.

Is it real?

Each bone density scan was carried out on the same DEXA machine, by the same technician at my local hospital. That gives some level of standardisation.

Whilst I understand and accept there can be variation in readings that may account for the improved results (perhaps the DEXA machine was re-calibrated between May and Dec 2021), the personnel at the hospital seemed to accept the results as significant.

I am greatly encouraged by the results and feel stronger and healthier.

Note of Caution

I was recently found to have stage 1 liver disease. My doctor seems not too worried about this: He says the liver is highly regenerative and, at this level, if I quit alcohol the liver should recover and I can expect a “full normal life expectancy”. He did however point an accusing finger at the non-prescription dietary supplements I had been using in the 6 months, June - Dec 2021. He says that whilst these over-the-counter products may well have the declared amount of the stated ingredient they may well also contain other elements that can cause stress on the liver. And perhaps that is the cause –although this not something that can be conclusively proven one way or the other. As of 22nd Dec 2021 I stopped using the dietary supplements. I also quit alcohol. My next liver tests are due in April 2022. Watch this space....

Conclusion

At this stage of the journey I am now 58 years old. I weigh 56kg and considered myself to have a healthy diet and an active lifestyle.

I believe my diet and exercise programme is working and am continuing with it.

[Jenat]

Thanks for sharing. That is so encouraging. Interesting about the possible effect of the supplements on the liver as they are exactly what I (and I’m sure many others) am taking.

[Deee64 in reply to Jenat]

Thanks for sharing your wonderful news with usYour story is very similar to mine, same age, similar t-scores and I was diagnosed March 2020!

I also do yoga/Pilates 3 times each week and try to take brisk walks as much as possible

I take D3, K2, magnesium, silica and collagen supplements

Im supposed to have a dexa scan in March so fingers crossed my news will be as good as yours x

[MPort]

Thanks for sharing. It is wonderful when such hard work pays off. I would reconsider the supplements. Vit D is one we all need in this hemisphere in Winter. Perhaps investigate various brands. Get from a reliable source. In my experience doctors know very little about vitamin supplementation. I ran mine past my (blood consultant -I have also got ostopenia/osteoporous) and she okd them, witout kno wing the details of the contents. In my humble opinion your doctor threw the baby out with the bath water. Maybe review the situation?

[Fruitandnutcase in reply to MPort]

Yes, I’m puzzled about that comment too - from what I can see the poster is only taking what her doctor would have prescribed anyway - calcium & D3 and to be honest I’m sure most of us buy better quality vitamins and minerals than are prescribed by our doctors - in my opinion they prescribe the cheapest on the market - not that cost necessarily equals quality but I’m sure you know what I mean.

[Neonleon]

I am trying to do things naturally too diet exercise etc so this is encouraging . Re supplements my doctor prescribed a large dose of calcium with vitamin D, the chewable ones, the instructions say not for long term use causes tooth decay. I carried on taking the bone support supplement which he had dismissed.

[Neonleon]

Good luck with the liver test in April and keep us posted.

[osteo2021]

Thank you for sharing your positive experience. It’s inspirational. Can you tell me more about cheese leaching calcium from bones?

[skinnykangal in reply to osteo2021]

Hi, happy to help. As I understand proteins, when metabolised, have an acidifying effect on the blood. Blood needs to be at a pH of 7.4. To try and get the level back up to 7.4 the body takes the nearest corrective material available - that is calcium drawn from bones and teeth. Cheese is proteinaceous. As I understand it all protein has this effect on the blood but animal proteins more so than plant-based. I am not a nutritionist - this is just what I gleaned from reading around the alkaline diet. It has been hugely beneficial to me - I feel really healthy. There is a mountain of info out there but I found Ross Bridgeford's food charts and explanations to be clearest. I hope that helps. Please ask if there is anything else you think I can help with.

[osteo2021 in reply to skinnykangal]

Thank you so much for the clear explanation!

[wellness1]

Congratulations on improving your results. That's terrific.

Your doctor isn't concerned about calcium or vitamin D3 per se, just that otc supplements are less well-regulated than prescription drugs, so may have some 'unknowns' that could affect your liver. By cutting out the supplements, you'll be forgoing the benefits you've been getting, which are important for bone metabolism. Vitamin D3 will help you absorb calcium and you really should consider adding vitamin K2, which helps direct calcium to the bones and teeth and away from arteries.

I can understand that you want to see if they're affecting your liver, but if your liver results improve it could be from eliminating alcohol and nothing to do with your supplements. When I started taking supplements I decided to get brands with a reputation for high quality, even if it costs a bit more. It might be worth changing the brand of supplements you take if you have concerns about the quality. To your doctor's point, there are otc things that can affect the liver, including pain relievers, medications, and herbs. A quick google search mentions some. (paracetamol/acetaminophen is a big one)

austingastro.com/2018/04/27...

[HeronNS]

Cycling to the detriment of weightbearing activity is actually bad for the bones because it's not weight-bearing. Hard to believe, but there it is! I agree about the caution concerning "dietary supplements". There may be undeclared ingredients. It's been found, for example, that certain Chinese medicines contain undeclared corticosteroids. Nevertheless there is proof that certain nutrients are very helpful for maintaining bone health, and if you are only taking the standard vitamins, especially D3 and K2, from a reputable source then your doctor should not be advising you against them! Vitamin K2, as no doubt you know, is absolutely essential, and lacking in the standard Western diet.

Here's my story:

healthunlocked.com/pmrgcauk...

And a study which shows that nutrients help improve bone density, although I think their inconvenient protocol (probably for the study) isn't necessary for daily life, and strontium certainly isn't necessary. Maybe our doctors need to read this:

hindawi.com/journals/jeph/2...

[FearFracture in reply to HeronNS]

What brand of Calcium hydroxyapatite do you take?

[Hidden]

Sounds like you are doing very well at nipping osteoporosis before it even has a chance. Congratulations! Congrats on quitting drinking also. I believe you will find you end up feeling the best you ever have.

I look forward to reading your next chapter. ❤️

[Mavary]

Well done. If I had known as early on as you I might have been able to prevent all the breaks I’ve got. I’m afraid I’m stuck with medication now as my dexa scan was really bad. It had improved a little on the last dexa scan but still not enough to do it on diet alone.

[FearFracture]

Wow an improvement from Lumbar t-score of -2.8 to -2.1 in 6 months is HUGE!

I was diagnosed with osteoporosis in 2019 at age 50. I'm 4'11" and I haven't lost any height--that's how tall I've always been At the time of my 1st DEXA scan I weighed approximately 100 lbs. which is approximately 45.5 kg.

Initially, I asked my doctor if there were any natural approaches to reverse osteoporosis and I expressed that I would rather avoid meds but he offered no alternatives to pharmaceuticals, said my bones were "horrible", and prescribed oral bisphosphonates (alendronate). I started taking it in January 2020.

Like you, I was in a bit of a state of "confusion" when I was first told that I had osteoporosis. I have no fractures and I am very active. As a matter of fact, before getting the results of my 1st DEXA scan, meaning I'd had it but had received any notices, I moved and was carrying furniture and heavy boxes and thinking little about my bones. Even after being diagnosed, when I spoke to my endocrinologist, I don't think I understood that my numbers were bad. I literally said to him, "I always wanted to jump out of a plane. Do you think it's ok for me to still do that?" LOL.

The alendronate caused digestive tract issues, and a different doctor put me on Omeprazole in July 2020. I specifically told that doctor, "I have osteoporosis and I take alendronate, is it ok for me to take Omeprazole?" He assured me it was fine.

One year later, in July 2021, I went to a new primary care physician and when I told her that I was taking alendronate and omeprazole, she said that lots of ppl have trouble with alendronate (acid reflux, etc) and she recommended that I take a holiday from alendronate and talk to my endocrinologist. Two weeks later, I had my 2nd DEXA scan and stopped the alendronate. One of my hips had improved by 9% which is good, but my lumbar T-score had only gone from -3.9 to -3.7 in 2 years after 1.5 yrs on alendronate.

In Sept. 2021, I saw a new gastroenterologist, and he told me that Omeprazole is NOT good for your bones, and he switched me to famotidine. I am supposed to see him again in a few months to see if I can stop taking that too.

In the meantime, I saw my endocrinologist to discuss my July 2021 DEXA scan. He complained about the format of the report and recommended that since I can't tolerate the alendronate that I get a zoledronic acid infusion.

Reluctantly, I had the infusion because I wasn't sure what to do. I didn't have bad side effects from it but I really don't want to continue with it if I can come up with a natural way to improve my BMD.

I learned about vitamin K2 and the prune study and the almond study not through my endocrinologist but on my own. I learned about low intensity vibration therapy also on my own. All pretty much after having had the infusion.

I knew my endocrinologist had failed to warn me about ONJ, because I learned about this from a question on the patient application at a dentist office, and I am really unhappy with him at this point.

When I first was diagnosed, I kept up with my regular walks but, let's face it, if walking were enough to prevent osteoporosis, I wouldn't have it. I have always walked. Like you, originally, I didn't really change anything and because of COVID some not so great habits were creeping in: I ate more sugar and other comfort foods, I gained 10 lbs, and I was drinking diet ginger ale daily. My new primary care physician told me the weight gain is good for my bones but personally, I wish I hadn't gained the weight and I wouldn't mind losing it.

Since having had the infusion, I have started researching as much as I can about osteoporosis. I've discovered that my endocrinologist prescribed potentially dangerous meds to me without have looked at my entire DEXA scan, he only looked at the summary--this blows my mind and I feel like it's completely irresponsible. I also have discovered that he didn't bother to rule out other possible causes for my bone loss--this also infuriates me.

Your post gives me hope!

Over the summer, I was pre-occupied with getting tested for Celiac--had to do a gluten challenge, etc. and although I do have one of the genes associated with Celiac Disease, I don't have Celiac, but I do have NCGS (Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity) so I avoid gluten, and starting in September 2021, I have increased the number of miles I walk. I was walking 1 to 1.5 miles daily and I have upped that to approximately 2.5 to 3 miles a day.

When I read that you are walking 8 km 3 times a week, (approximately 15 miles), that made me feel great about my walks. Also, I was originally taking one long walk every day, but I have broken it up into 2, 20+ minute walks to make sure I keep my pace up.

I stopped drinking carbonated beverages in November and although I was drinking 1/2 caf, I stopped drinking coffee at the end of December, so I'm pretty much caffeine-free. Additionally, as of December, I've been eating 5+ prunes a day and a serving of almonds 5 days a week and I've added vitamin K2 and Lysine to my supplements.

I've also joined a gym and I am seriously upping the weights that I lift. Note, I am being careful. I've also added in the "exercise" of stomping each foot 4 times, twice a day, as if I am crushing a can, and heel drops, among other things such as push up, back extensions, wall angels, squats and lunges.

In the US, if you are being treated for osteoporosis, you can get a DEXA scan annually rather than just every other year. I am planning to have another DEXA scan this summer and possibly again 6 months later.

I'm hoping for any improvement that I can get, but don't want to be disappointed so I have my mind set to "if my numbers improve great, if they don't, I'm doing everything I can and that's all I can do."

Unfortunately, because I got the zoledronic acid infusion, if my numbers do improve, I won't know how much is due to the meds and how much is due to my dietary and exercise changes. My current goal is to NOT get another infusion, at least not this November, but I am really just in a sort of keeping doing all I can and wait and see what the scans shows.

Please, keep us posted with your liver test results and BMD results. It's always inspiring to hear from people who have had success improving their bones w/o meds.

[Hidden in reply to FearFracture]

Your post is so encouraging in doing the right things to help naturally. I don't believe having done a couple things with prescriptions can affect you so much physically that can't be "undone". I'll be watching your posts.

I've not used any osteoporosis medications at all. I've had 5 fractures, 4 in my spine and unfortunately one simultaneously with the most recent, T-10, that I'm still in recovery from.

I believe most of the fractures (all within the past year and a half) are mostly stress related and also due to a hysterectomy 11 years ago, when I was not educated about the loss of hormones.

I've had a horrible diet my whole life and add to that, I smoke cigarettes. I've got my work cut out for me to change lifelong habits that includes awful posture, but I'm determined to do what I can naturally. Too many drugs have so many terrible side effects and hurt the body you are working at to heal.

Thank you so much for your post.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Meant to include the simultaneous fracture is in my wrist, my hand that I write with.

[FearFracture in reply to Hidden]

Thank you.

I know you probably get this from lots of ppl so I won't drone on about it, but maybe your 1st step should be to focus on giving up the smoking if possible. I've never smoked so I can't totally relate, but I did have a caffeine addiction which I beat, although I think that giving up caffeine is a million times easier than it would be to quit smoking, and I was a lifelong nail biter and somehow (not sure how I finally did it) about 7 years ago I quit. Nail biting isn't really considered an addiction, I think it is classified as an OCD behavior. I had tried my whole life to stop and nothing, not even painting my nails with some disgusting tasting stuff, worked, and then finally a few years ago, I did it. Note, I still have to be careful, but for the most part, I don't bite them.

My current top priority for my bone health is getting off of famotidine. I'm working on everything that I can (exercise, diet, researching everything that I can) but at the top of my list is quitting famotidine. Without being too graphic, I know that something has already improved. I think that I was having bleeding in my upper digestive tract that was not caught by my doctors. I have noticed a change recently and I am pretty sure this change that I have noticed is an indication that that has ended, which means that I am headed in the right direction. Additionally, I am looking into ways to naturally relieve my gastrointestinal tract/digestive tract issues. I've been reading up on Aloe Vera juice and I might give that a try. I have a follow-up with my gastroenterologist this spring and that is when I'm going to talk with him about stopping the famotidine.

I made quitting famotidine my number 1 priority because I know it is the biggest obstacle right now to my actually reaching my goal of getting all the nutrients that I need from my diet.

Regarding, hormone replacement therapy, I didn't do that either. Sadly, had a stayed in NY my doctor would have put me on HRT, but when I left, I didn't have good healthcare, mostly because of the US healthcare system at that time and because the doctors/facilities that I tried to go to for help, simply failed me. One female OB/GYN I went to, without getting my permission, gave me a pregnancy test, after I'd told her that I had already gone through menopause. Then she tried to bill me for it. I was outraged and honestly, I felt violated. I wasn't in a position to go to five different doctors until I found one that knew what the hell they were doing. Also, I have seen posts from other who have done HRT and still end up with osteoporosis in their 50s so it's not a guarantee that you won't have low bone density.

Since you want to stick with a natural approach, have you looked in the Marodyne LiV (low intensity vibration) platform. I think it is also supposed to help speed up healing fractures too.

Here are a few links if you want to check it out

melioguide.com/osteoporosis...

melioguide.com/osteoporosis...

I'm actually considering the Marodyne LiV but I am waiting to see what my next DEXA shows and it's a bit pricey, so I would really like to see more reviews, but it sounds very promising and on Inspire.com USERID Londoner posted several years ago that her 80 y.o. mother refused osteo-meds and did Marodyne LiV for 2 years and her spine and hip T-scores improved by 8 and 7% which is great.

[Hidden in reply to FearFracture]

Thank you for replying. Yes, I do absolutely know that the smoking is number one to quit. I'm bouncing around between 3-7 cigarettes a day when a little over a month ago I was up over a pack. My divorce was finalized last week, so I know I'm going to be able to stabilize somewhat soon. I have a counseling (new counselor) appointment today, after not having had one in 2 months. I had quit smoking for over 17 years and started up again about 6 or 7 years ago...I have confidence it will happen.

I also have digestive issues because of my eating habits. One thing that helps is taking digestive enzymes and probiotics.

One of the best things I did for myself was to temporarily move to my sister's house, a little over 400 mi away from my ex, but unfortunately, also away from my son. I know things will get much brighter once I heal from this fractured vertebrae and wrist. I'm trying hard to take one day at a time, something that is easier said than done.

Thank you for making me realize to just make quitting smoking my number one priority and go forward from there. I can do this!

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I've looked into the low intensity vibration platform and intend to purchase one once I get the go ahead from my Dr. For now, I'm not even allowed to go for physical therapy. The vertebrae was 50-75% crushed at my last x-ray, 3 weeks ago.

[FearFracture in reply to Hidden]

Hope it all heals quickly. I recently saw something about using infrared light to treat fractures and possibly help with bone density. I did a quick search to see if I could find anything and this popped up - lighttreeventures.com/post/... At least it would be worth asking your doctor about it.

[Hidden in reply to FearFracture]

Thank you for the infrared link!

I'm going armed with links for my orthopedic appt next week. I'm in an area that has alternative therapies (and doctors) available. I plan on making an appointment with an osteopathic or functional medicine doctor in the future to have as my routine doctor. I've read up on acupuncture for osteoporosis:

steadyhealth.com/articles/a...

healthcmi.com/Acupuncture-C...

(I also have study links, if you want them).

I'm leaning towards the osteopathic Dr because he is an acupuncturist, educated in China, who is also an osteopath. He became a doctor so he'd be able to take insurance for his patients! He's a little farther away, but being in my network is fabulous.

#2 on my list is coffee and sugar, coffee will be easy. Then working on diet with a nutritionist, getting rid of gluten and dairy. Our son is gluten, dairy and peanut free. When we first found out, the whole family did his diet change and we all felt and looked fabulous. Mmm, kimchi.... I lived in South Korea for 9 months and I couldn't even bring myself to taste it. Unfortunately, I don't like spicy food at all. Spicy aids in detoxing.

I had blood tests to find out what I don't digest over a decade (or 2) ago, so I know what I'm eating that I shouldn't be...so I know I'm partially (more than partially) responsible for the condition I'm in. I believe it's never too late to start getting benefits from good changes and some damage can be reversed, or at least progression halted.

Thank you so much for all of your input. You've been very helpful in making my day(s) lighter and hopeful.

[FearFracture in reply to Hidden]

I researched acupuncture to treat osteoporosis but of course, it's not covered by my insurance, so unless I find a doctor who offers it, which I doubt seriously is possible where I live, for the moment, I will not be taking that route, but I would love to know what your osteopathic doctor says/recommends. And yes, I would love it if you would send the links to the studies.

I have 1 of the 2 genes linked to Celiac. I don't have Celiac now, but since I have 1 of the 2 genes, it could get triggered. I do have NCGS (non-celiac gluten sensitivity) so I avoid gluten.

While you are eating gluten, you should request a WHEAT ZOOMER test. Note you have to be eating a good amount of gluten for the test to give accurate results. Generally, they recommend you do the GLUTEN CHALLENGE prior to getting the test. I've never had the WHEAT ZOOMER test, but I wish I'd known about it when I was still eating gluten. Now that I am off gluten again, I really don't want to add it back in.

I tried to get tested for food allergies about 4 years ago, the doctor tested me for all kinds of pollen and environmental triggers, my arm looked horrible, but he refused to test me for food allergies. I went to him to get tested for food allergies. I might at some point look into it again. I think it could be extremely helpful.

Do you have a lactose/dairy intolerance? A lot of ppl knock dairy as a source of calcium, but I don't think I could meet my dietary calcium requirements without it. Also, some cheeses (ex. Jarlsberg, Munster) are good sources of K2.

I have no idea if I will like kimchi, but I hope I do. That would make life easier. As soon as I try it, I will let you know how it goes. During the osteoporosis forum that took place on-line about a week ago, one of the speakers recommend a tablespoon of sauerkraut and a tablespoon of kimchi daily. I already had some sauerkraut in the fridge (need to buy more) and I just thought why not try the Kim Chi too.

Do you eat liver? It's supposed to be really good for you. I've don't eat it, but I have friends who eat it regularly and I told them the next time I visit that I want to try it--meaning literally one bite--to see if I like it. If I do, I will add it into my diet, but let's just say, I'm more optimistic about the kimchi than I am about liver. LOL.

I find sharing stories and how things are going to be motivational so thank you too.

[FearFracture in reply to Hidden]

YES! You can definitely do it!

Thank you for the digestive enzymes tip. I will definitely look into them. I think that quitting half-caf coffee helped me considerably. I've also been making sure to eat a tablespoon of sauerkraut and a little yogurt every day to help get the good bacteria to thrive in my gut and I'm planning on adding a little Kim Chi to my diet.

[jamr]

Thankyou for a well thought through synopsis of your condition and protocols, this makes it most helpful. Improving your T score from 2.8 to 2.1 in 8 months flies in the face of what I have been told by doctors, essentially that without drugs its not possible to recover bone density once you are past age 30. I am 64 yr old male, had a dexa mid 2017, with T hip -2.5, spine -2.9 radius +0.3. In 2019 diagnosed with gut parasite and successfully treated and was able to return to a more nutrient rich diet. As endo tests showed no major issues assumed parasite and restricted diet over 10 years had caused osteo. Dexa again in 2021 with T spine -2.3, spine -2.9 (but sub scores better bar one), radius +0.5. My assumption is that if I had done a dexa in 2019, my scores would have been around hip -2.7, spine -3.1, radius +0.1 at best, meaning my real recovery rate between 2019 and 2021 is around 4%. I run, paddle, swim, walk, weights, although not as consistent as it should be. I have also gained about 6kg in the past year, from 71-77kg. I Take natto for K2, 4000iu of D3, daily dried fruits including raisins and prunes, nuts, Advacal forte from Bioceuticals. I have watched the D3 over a couple of years and my level is around 170nmol/l and my immune system is far stronger I think because of the high D3 level. My issue with GPs is their lack of perspective over the difference diet and exercise can do, perhaps because their protocol is a phamaceutical one and not a lifestyle one, so they are unwilling to support my contention that the changes I have made in the past 4 years are a better option than taking the drugs - which I have thus far not done. However they dont seem able to offer a logical proposition why my assumptions are wrong and I would be better off taking something like Prolia. Aside from upsetting me, I find it difficult to take this journey without getting the sense that the doctors I have seen are treating me as an individual case. (I must note that my current GP did diagnose and treat the parasite - but as she is not an endo does not understand enough about the osteo aspect. The endo I saw had no idea of the gut or immune system issues. Having said that at least he eliminated all the possible endo pathologies that might have caused the osteo. All the best for your recovery. I am hoping my next dexa in 18 months time will show continued recovery. My concern is that at some point my risk of fracture might become too much given my T scores and I might be forced to take a Prolia type drug. Not sure when this is, but just how far is it possible to rebuild our bones given our age.

[Hidden in reply to jamr]

I asked practically ALL of the doctors (many) how much education they had in nutrition and the answer was the same from all of them. They received around 4 hours.....4 actual hours, not 4 course hours!

I agree with you that they are trained to test and Medicare, not solve or prevent. Many doctors receive kickbacks or incentives to medicate.

I watched my mother be put on medication after medication for diagnosis of conditions she never even had. She was on medication for diabetes for 7 years, then was told by a new doctor that she never had diabetes. She would not listen to me. I don't believe that the medications ended her life early, but I very much believe they affected her quality of life considerably.

My goal is to have the best quality of life I can. I know I have a lot to change towards that end, one step at a time.

[jamr in reply to Hidden]

I think it is important to distinguish between medical science, medical protocols and medical practitioners. While the science has validity in narrow applications and in medicine very little is taught about treating the whole person, and this is difficult because of the complexity as well as the time and cost required. Medical protocols usually exists to achieve social goals, like if it works OK for the majority then negative effects on the minority are acceptable. Practitioners vary in their judgement, training and ability to understand their patients. As you say nutrition seems outside the ambit of GPs, and pharma systems are actively promoting drug treatments, not how much benefit you get from eating whole foods. The challenge is trying to manage medical advice from GPs and specialists where you dont have categorical expert opinions that disagree. I was initially prescribed with Prolia by the GP who said, I might as well begin with the jabs while the endocrinologist looked for pathologies in my endocrine system. Prolia is considered to have a rebound effect if you come off it without replacing it with something else, a rebound effect that sees a rise in spontaneous fractures. I declined the prescription, no pathologies were found in my endocrine system at that time, and I have seen some recovery in my DEXA results. I am also trying to find where to get TBS (Trabecular Bone Scores) testing which gives an indication of bone quality and not just BMD which is density only. The thinking is that ones bone quality also affects fracture risk. Dense fragile bones might not be better than less dense strong bones. As you say it is a journey, much of it in the dark, so mis-steps are possible but its not helped when those we want to light the way for us, instead shine blinding light into our eyes.

[Hidden in reply to jamr]

Great reply, thank you. I hope you find what best works for you.

That really is what we are left with.... everyone has to be their own advocate and do their own research, then make their own decisions and reap from them, for good or bad. Additionally, putting up with many who have less than desirable attitudes.

It seems like since we have to pay so much, not with just money but our health, to the medical establishment that as research emerges about anything the health professionals should be required to continue their education.

It's been a long time since studies have shown eating processed foods lead to an increase in biophysical harm that I believe really should warrant continued education in nutrition.

Mmm, maybe I'll consider activism....

[FearFracture in reply to jamr]

There is a good chance if you stick with your program that you will be able to stop further bone loss and possibly reverse your osteoporosis. I was diagnosed in 2019 and my lumbar t-score was -3.9. I did take alendronate for 1.5 years but it caused digestive issues and my lumbar t-score only improved to -3.7 which is not statistically significant, but my left total femur t-score improved by 9%, which is good.

In November, I had my first zoledronic acid infusion, but at the moment, I do not intend to have another infusion. I've already made several changes to my diet, all of the changes that I have made I pretty much found on my own, none of my doctors have ever given me any kind of good dietary advice. All my endocrinologist says is eat a balanced diet--that's what I thought I was doing! LOL.

If you do end up deciding to take osteo-meds, I would ask a lot of questions before starting with Prolia. You can stop taking bisphosphonates, but you can't just stop taking Prolia, you have to be able to move to another med or you risk possible spontaneous fractures. Also, make sure you have a complete dental exam prior to starting bisphosphonates and to discuss it with your dentist.

Also, you might want to look up OsteoStrong.me. I haven't tried this because there isn't one near me, but I really wish there were because it sounds promising. Note, I have seen one post about someone having fractured because of OsteoStrong but they still said they thought the program was good. They said that they think the issue arose because the person assisting them was trying to push too fast for results. If you are able to try it, it would be worth mentioning that you aren't in a hurry and prefer to take it slow. In the game of osteoporosis, no new bone loss, is a gain.

I have a few questions for you.

1. How did they discover that you had a parasite?

2. How do you find the Natto? I've added K2 (MenaQ7) to my supplements, and I'm tempted to try Natto, but everything I have read suggests that westerners have a hard time with it.

[jamr in reply to FearFracture]

Hi there, I have looked at the exercise principles of osteostrong.me however dont have a centre near to me so not an option. The principle of osteogenics makes sense, however the studies that they post on their site that support the principle that applying force to your body is good for your bones, were not done using their machines. They suggest just 10mins per week on their 4 machines that do specific exercises. Its possible to do similar isometric exercises with other gym equipment and probably the same effect. However I think that doing the exercises more than once per week would be better as long as you are careful and your degree of osteo is not too severe. You also need to be careful with loading on your joints when you are pushing against an immovable heavy weight. I just think that if you are familiar with gym equipment and have access to some you can perform similar exercises quite effectively, along with other weight bearing and cardio type exercises.

It took me a while to diagnose the parasite in part due to my own stupidity. I swam in an ocean contaminated by flooded sewers, and got bad gut issues. Treated this with herbals and it went away. A couple of years later is got less specific symptoms that I related to food so I did a food intolerance elimination diet starting with candida, then glute, dairy, soy, fructose etc as I assumed I had an immune issue with foods. So for some years a I cut out many foods, and felt a lot better. So it probably lessened the impact of the parasite as well as malnourishing me. Things did not quite ad up, so I found a different doctor, who did stool tests and sent them off. Results were high concentration of Blastocystis Hominis which can be asymptomatic in some people and not in others. Treatment was antibiotics and retest showed I was clear.

Natto is available in Asian/Japanese supermarkets. It costs in Australia around $3 for a pack of 3 or 4 pods. I eat one of these every 2-3 days which is supposed to contain around 450mcg of K2. Not sure why some westerners have an issue with the taste and texture, I am not squeamish, however I dont eat chicken feet, tripe or brain. Ad some mustard and soy sauce and its an OK snack. Having said that my family tells me they find the smell and taste disgusting, I think possibly because my health was at stake my approach was different and either way I was going to eat it. After reading Kate Rheume-Bleue book, ' K2 and the Calcium Paradox' talking about it, I was expecting something far worse. Just decide what your priority is, and the fact that it is a natural product and where is it a regular part of the diet in Japan, they live long healthy lives.

[NewBloom]

Well done Skinnykangal, that's so impressive. Thank you for shayour story.

[skinnykangal]

Replies and Responses

I’d like to start by saying thank you to everyone who responded to my (first ever) post; from the simplest of good wishes to some very well constructed and clearly presented biographies with helpful suggestions and information. They are all gratefully received.

I have often felt like I was stumbling around in the dark in my efforts to combat OP naturally and it is encouraging to know there are plenty of people out there all willing to shine a helpful light in my direction.

Some questions did arise from my previous post and I will try to clarify and respond to those below.

Supplements - not prescription meds

The otc supplements I took from June – Dec 2021 were not the same as those prescribed by the doctor from Feb 2020 – May 2021. Having read around the the subject of supplements I had become concerned about the type prescribed by the doctor. It seemed to be made from pulverised limestone and there was an attendant risk of build-up of calcium in the arteries (and possibly other organs such as the kidneys).

My reading suggested calcium supplements sourced from algae would be a healthier alternative. At the same time I also bought “healthier option” D3 and K2. It is of these plant-based supplements my doctor is suspicious.

Further on supplements – why stop them now?

When I started to take OP seriously (late-May 2021) I was reading around the subject and came across a post by a woman who had started out taking supplements while she got her diet and exercise programme developed. Ultimately she reached a stage where she was able to give up supplements: -her regime was robust enough to provide her body with everything it needed. I found this inspirational.

It is my hope that I may be able to achieve the same result. I do accept this may not be possible.

The reason I have come off the supplements at the same time as the booze is simply a matter of timing. I was given a wide range of blood tests in Dec 2021 so I have a clear picture of my current levels and I will be given another wide range of tests in early April 2022. This gives me the perfect opportunity, in that 3-month window, to check how my body manages without the aid of dietary supplements. I am testing my system – is my diet and exercise regime currently strong enough to last 3 months without supplements? It may not be, and I will accept that, but I feel I need to check it out.

Incidentally I have not been able to track down the inspirational post since. Sorry!

Calcium

The type of calcium I was taking was from the red algae, Lithothamnium calcareum. It is sourced from seaweed and made in the UK. Each tablet gave 250mg of calcium. I took 2 daily – one in the morning, one in the evening.

Chewy calcium

The poster who mentioned this said their tablets were “big”.

My thought was about the dosage – my reading suggests our bodies can only absorb 500mg of calcium at any one time. Anything more is excreted.

If the chewy tablets are of a dosage greater than 500mg perhaps you could consider halving them and taking one part in the morning and the other in the evening? That way your body has a better opportunity to absorb the calcium.

Cheese – drawing calcium from bones

Cheese is proteinaceous. My understanding is that all protein has an acidifying effect on the blood although to varying degrees with animal protein being more acidifying than plant-based protein. Blood should be at pH 7.4 (some sources say 7.365). When we eat too much protein the blood pH is lowered. To correct this imbalance the body sources the closest available solution – and that is calcium from teeth and bones.

I follow a low glycaemic index, 80:20 alkaline diet and read around quite a bit before embarking on this. There is a mountain of information out there although I have found Ross Bridgeford’s food charts easy to follow.

I hope that addresses all questions. Please let me know. Bye for now.

[Dogsandme]

That was very interesting. Good for you! I am sorry, though, to hear you have stopped the supplements. I am doing something similar. I follow the COMB (Combination of Multinutrients for Bone) Protocol, where the multinutrients are very important. I take Vit K2-MK7, DHA from Omega 3, Vit D3, a marine calcium supplement and Elemental Magnesium. I walk 60 minutes a day. I do not take strontium citrate. I have quit alcohol too. I am hoping that I have the same success as you. Mine would be not progressing to osteoporosis. I will not take the meds recommended for my osteopenia. Keep up the good work! And I hope the liver test is positive. Good luck.

[SpaghettiIsGood]

Great Post, we need more stories like this. Why would a Dr say diet and exercise will not be effective against op and that medicine is the only answer

[worthytobeloved]

Wow - such useful information - thanks!