Have just come off my first (and last ) cruise and I was staggered at the amount of people who were not just overweight but obese . Having carefully watched my weight for years and low fat diet plus plenty of exercise it didn’t stop me needing a bypass at 76 . So what am I missing I keep asking myself . Many of these people were in their seventies but still alive and able. However many of them were were laid back and relaxed and I noticed consumed a lot of alcohol . Could it have been their medication or were they normally like that and coped better with stress than I do. Is this the real answer therefore to preventing heart disease.
Well after all does weight really matter - British Heart Fou...
Well after all does weight really matter
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Pollypuss
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It does go against everything we are taught doesn’t it. My mother is the same, has taken care of her weight, lots of exercise, low fat food and still started having heart problems (probably a heart attack) at 50. The doctors finally took notice when she was 70 and she had a bypass. I had a heart attack and bypass at 50) ok I was a little overweight and did have too many cheat days) but was relatively active and eat good food.
Our problem is genetics, we at at very high risk of heart disease and diabetes.
I hope you had a great cruise and have many more
I know what you mean and it’s an awful shock when you do all the right things to avoid ill health. However I do think there should me more emphases on coping with stress and the important part it plays to not getting heart disease
Hello Polly,First of all, how do you know that all these obese people on the cruise were healthy?
Many are crazy enough to have underlying conditions and still eating and drinking like there’s no tomorrow.
Also, you cannot think like that, there are people needed bypass in their 40s, super healthy and fit people getting death sentence cancers.
The reality is that we are all different and more or less prone to different conditions.
Don’t look for a reason, you’ll drive yourself crazy.
I’m 48, had 3 open heart surgeries and now stage 3 heart failure, im happy to be still alive, full stop!
MilkfairyHeart Star
Being over weight increases your chances of living with heart and circulatory disease, diabetes, cancer, worsens arthritic pain to name just a few problems.
It has an impact on the resources of the NHS and society as a whole.
gov.uk/government/publicati....
From Health Matters -Obesity and the food environment a UK Government Publication
I just logged in after my walk to see if anyone had replied to my post to see this totally stupid one. A few years ago I was overweight and pre-diabetic at risk of diabetes and heart disease. I now am a healthy weight and no longer pre-diabetic. Healthy obese - what a load of codswallop!
But you know I was watching Oprah ages ago and she had a full body MRI and even though she has always been overweight, the doctors told her she has a very healthy cardiovascular system. She actually eats healthily. And then there are people who look thin but have lots of build up of fatty deposits in their heart arteries, but you wouldn't know by looking at them. So maybe healthy obese is a thing.
I was always nagging my very fat older sister (10 years older) to lose weight. Well she lived to 89. She did not need a bypass unlike me the self righteous younger sister who thought she was immortal 😣
There's exceptions to every rule. Those Yanks that appear on My Fat Life or whatever it is called generally have multiple health problems.
True. But if you look at Oprah's body shape she actually has a small waist and most of the weight is on her bum and thighs. She was also running marathons back then. Don't know if she still does them. So I 'd have to say she does seem pretty healthy.
That’s a great (ghastly) quote…..has obesity cost now taken over from smoking?
It and alcohol have to if the NHS is to provide the service we all deserve!
Obseity does appear to be causing more deaths in middle aged people than smoking.
I never said being obese was healthy . I simply pondered the fact that these extremely obese people were even still alive being given the facts from research by medics . Just look around you and see how many people are obese . There are many people who like myself were misdiagnosed for two years because I was so fit and all my tests came back normal. I merely wondered why
I get the impression that all these risk factors are valid but, absolutely massively dwarfed by genetics. If its in your genes, you're stuffed, and I unfortunately speak from experience.
I always understood that smoking and genetics were top of the CHD risk factor list?
But it doesn't mean ignoring the slightly lower risks like obesity, alcohol and diet!
No, of course you’re right. Though individual experience is always interesting……..I do like to be clear what the research shows us to be the hierarchy of top risks for heart disease, across a population.It’s then our own (informed) individual choice which ones we focus on.
These articles from the BHF website may help.
bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo...
nhs.uk/conditions/cardiovas...
bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo...
Good to post these……population risk factors are easily checked. I think the difficulty for some of us, when we keep to a good diet, weight and don’t smoke, we still get heart disease. It can seem unfair.
Life sometimes throws us a curve ball.
Heart disease is multifactorial.
Some factors we can control such as our life style choices others we can't such as genetics and environmental pollution.
A risk isn't necessarily your destiny
Ok . I f I had presented with being obese, high blood pressure, high cholesterol and all the research known I may have got away with a stent. Instead for two years and six ecg’s I was told my problem was muscular. Heart attacks aren’t always like the drama seen on tv. All I know now is that my arteries were in a terrible mess which must have taken years.I therefore nearly died because I didn’t fit into the category as to what a person with heart disease presents. What I will shout from the roof tops is that many women have much different symptoms than men and we should try and find a way to cope with stress. That is what I was most interested in . The fact that these very fat people were so relaxed and living a life I am too afraid to even try yet still alive .
I am sorry that you feel unable to enjoy life at the moment.
I live with a rare form of angina, that is poorly understood, researched, recognised with limited treatment options. Vasospastic angina along with microvascular angina, are types of non obstructive coronary arteries, NOCAD. They tend to effect women more than men
It can be debilitating and I end up in hospital for a week for my unstable angina to be treated with IV GTN and morphine. I have been in hospital 16 times in 10 years.
Despite not having any of the usual risk factors. I am at risk of a heart attack, stroke, arrthymias, and heart failure.
My triggers for my angina are mental and emotional stress. The cold, extreme weather changes and infection.
I try as much as possible to manage my anxiety, in particular about being in hospital. I have had some really poor experiences due to the lack of knowledge about my condition.
It is only recently that my care has improved.
I now have a care plan and great support from my Cardiologist.
I haven't got the capacity to look back or let what if's churn in my head.
You can self refer to the IAPT services. They can be very useful in helping with managing anxiety.
There is plenty of research highlighting that women heart patients can have difficulty getting the same level of treatment as a man.
The Lancet Women and Cardiovascular Disease Commission report published last year raised the issue.
thelancet.com/commissions/w...
You may also find Prof Angela Maas book ' A Woman's Heart ' helpful too.
Thank you. I am sorry for your unusual problem and you must feel very frustrated . So far the triple seems to be going well but my husband at 94 is probably in the same state as the queen and I don’t know from one day to the next what is going to happen. I feel for people who have to look after disabled people because that in itself causes a lot of stress and understanding . Just have to live for the day .
Maybe some of those 'very fat' people are very fat because of medical conditions, some cancer treatments make you pile on the pounds! Maybe those people were enjoying themselves because they were celebrating good news or maybe they were thinking what the hell, I might not be here next year so I'll enjoy today!! I understand you're scared to live your life, maybe counseling could help you especially if you're suffering with stress, but let's not judge people, we don't know their stories in the same way no-one on that cruise knew your story.
Dear Pollypuss
It is so hard to live the perfect life isn’t it, be the perfect size, eat the perfect food {Think you know where I am going with this} then BANG down we go with something that should not surly affect us? { this is from someone who was in this perfect box}
We have been told that overeating, smoking, drinking etc etc is bad for us in one form or another and of course it is, to a certain point and that point is a lot to do with our “make up”
True your lungs will work better without a fag, your liver without a drink, and your poor heart without the added burden of fat around it. {so we are told} But its not that simple and one shoe does not fit all.
The bigger people on your cruise hopefully had a fantastic time without you worrying about them and it was a shame that you didn’t enjoy it.
Fat/obese are soon to be hate words and rightly so.
Take care
The research is crystal clear. Obesity, smoking, and lack of exercise all MASSIVELY increase your risk of heart attacks and strokes.
A British study looked at over 7000 middle aged people and tracked them across several decades. If you took two groups of 50 year old men, the first group were non smokers, active, and with a healthy BMI. The second group smoked, were sedentary, and obese.
89% of the first group made it through to 65 without a stroke, heart attack or diabetes diagnosis. But only 42% of the second group were similarly fortunate. Think about that, the odds ranged for nearly 90% for the good life style, down to well under 50:50 for the bad life style.
Sure, there are no guarantees, some of the fatties will dodge the grim reaper and some of the fit ones will be struck down. But I know which odds I'd prefer!
Yes I know what you mean. Being all part of the goodies made me so self indulgent and I felt in a sense superior. Wrong . I now know there is no certainty where heart disease is concerned
Everyone is different and when I am on a cruise I spend time looking at the ship and the lovely places we visit.
My father died at 52 while other people have their father's decades more, is that fair?
We have to play the hand we are dealt with whether it appears fair or not, many athletes have died young through heart failure and they lead a healthy life.
I think we have to do what we have to do as individuals and stop worrying about other people.
You might find researching TOFI, Thin on the outside fat on the inside, helpful on this topic. While being obese certainly increases your risk, it doesn't guarantee you will get heart disease. Conversely being thin doesn't guarantee your risk to zero. Risk factors are factors not the whole equation.
Exactly. I play tennis with a couple of women who are really huge. They are very fit and play amazing tennis. Both go for check ups and all come back negative . It’s still me ponder about where we are with fat versus health
The overwhelming evidence indicates being overweight has a negative impact on a person's health.
"For women, being overweight or obese after menopause increases the risk of breast cancer. Having more fat tissue can increase your chance of getting breast cancer by raising estrogen levels. Also, women who are overweight tend to have higher levels of insulin, another hormone."
cancer.org/latest-news/how-...
"Being obese can also increase your risk of developing many potentially serious health conditions, including:
type 2 diabetes
high blood pressure
high cholesterol and atherosclerosis (where fatty deposits narrow your arteries), which can lead to coronary heart disease and stroke
asthma
metabolic syndrome, a combination of diabetes, high blood pressure and obesity
several types of cancer, including bowel cancer, breast cancer and womb cancer
gastro-oesophageal reflux disease (GORD), where stomach acid leaks out of the stomach and into the gullet
gallstones
reduced fertility
osteoarthritis, a condition involving pain and stiffness in your joints
sleep apnoea, a condition that causes interrupted breathing during sleep, which can lead to daytime sleepiness with an increased risk of road traffic accidents, as well as a greater risk of diabetes, high blood pressure and heart disease
liver disease and kidney disease
pregnancy complications, such as gestational diabetes or pre-eclampsia, when a woman experiences a potentially dangerous rise in blood pressure during pregnancy
Obesity reduces life expectancy by an average of 3 to 10 years, depending on how severe it is.
It's estimated that obesity and being overweight contribute to at least 1 in every 13 deaths in Europe."
nhs.uk/conditions/obesity/#...
Thank you for your reply. But the hypotheses you presented still does not answer the question. People I encountered were from about 60 to over 90 in age . Still alive and enjoying life and given all the info from modern research seem to question the importance of having to be the ‘right body weight’ to survive into old age
I have presented the results of research based evidence, not hypotheses.
"A hypothesis is a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation."
There are many factors that can influence a person's length of life.
Weight is just one of the many risk factors.
A risk is not your destiny.
Yes but what about the major issue: stress , which can have an enormous effect on how we handle life and all the above mentioned by medics regarding being overweight can also be attributed to how we handle stress. This was mentioned by one of the cardio’s before my bypass . That is something I have inherited from my family and I attribute my condition more to that than diet , exercise and the works
Health and well being are multifactorial. Stress is just one possible contributing factor.
However the overwhelming evidence is that obesity by itself has a much greater impact on a person's health and well being.
Somethings we cannot control, some we can. Learning how to and which we can and cannot control takes wisdom.
We can learn to manage how we respond to stress, maintain a BMI below 25, watch our waist circumference, stop smoking, eat a heart healthy diet and exercise.
We can't control our inheritance, pollution, getting older, our sex.
Yes but doesn’t stress partly contribute to obesity ….eating for comfort etc
Definitely genetics play a huge part in our health. There are also people who believe that rather than the fats we eat being 'the enemy ' it is sugar.
I wonder how many of those older folk you observed who were clearly overweight and 'making merry' actually had health issues - you have no way of knowing if any of them had by passes, liver problems,etc.
It is galling I know to compare oneself, knowing efforts made to be healthy, to others who appear to make no effort and yet still live long. I'll wager though that you feel much better than they do. Being overweight is uncomfortable!
Thank you. Yes I am convinced sugar plays a huge part. Coming down off sugar once I felt weak and really rotten and I’m not diabetic.
I definitely think genetics play a part, my Nan was always slim and extremely active ended up having a heart attack in her early 50’s and a fatal stroke at 68, my mum is overweight and has AFib and cardiomyopathy and I’m 50 always been slim, run and cycle 3-4times a week, healthy vegetarian since I was 14 and bang diagnosed with AFib April 2021, I couldn’t escape my family genetics unfortunately
What you didn’t see were all the people who couldn’t make the cruise because they’re 6 feet under. Weight certainly does matter but unfortunately some those who do everything to be healthy will still be afflicted by heart disease. If you hadn’t been so healthy, your outcome would likely have been worse.
Bob
On your cruise there were others who weren't there due to choice, economic factors (not everyone can afford a cruise), ill-health, or they had simply died. So I would not consider your fellow passengers to be a representative sample. Further, simply looking at someone does not enable an accurate assessment of their health and well-being, so when looking at your fellow passengers, you had no knowledge of how really 'healthy' or 'unhealthy' they were, whether any had terminal conditions, any treatments they had had are were having, and what medication regime they were under, to name a few. Other replies above give a much more logical explanation of factors governing our mortality, genetics and life style being high on the list, but there are enough facts out there to support the view that being overweight or worse obese does you no favours in the long run, whoever you are.
Pollypuss• in reply to
I wonder though if I had been obese when I started having chest pains two years before my bypass and 6 ecg’s would I have been fast tracked to more intensive examinations when the pains became slowly worse and not fobbed off with “muscular pains due to sport”. In my unusual situation being thin and fit nearly killed me!
I am new to this , I had a panic attack, hospital told me I was fine and to go home, I paid to see a cardiologist , and found out I had plaque in my LAD, not bad 10 per cent , but I have to be on statins and aspirin for the rest of my life, I am 61 , I know its stress that cause mine, what I find hard is diet and exercise, I feel I have been given a life sentence
Maybe those overweight people did have serious health issues and just thought bugger it! I'm going to have a good time, enjoy myself and blow the consequences.
I think everyone values their health and activity levels in different ways. I hate being fat and can honestly say it has ruined my life. However, I have a friend who must be at least 5 stones heavier than me, who just says 'if people don't like what they see, they can look away'. I can't get my head around that and (irritatingly, sorry) she apparently has no health problems. BP fine, no diabetes etc etc. Except she can't go to some places because she cannot fit into the seats. I think it must have a lot to do with genetics. I am still on my lifelong diet though and would probably envy your size.
Thank you for your reply . I threw this into the discussion because I was so darn self righteous about being thin and therefore wanted to learn more about people who weren’t and yet living healthy happy lives . Enjoy your life. Have fun and that’s what I have concluded
Like many posting replies I too lived a pretty wholesome lifestyle from the age of 20 - no smoking or drinking and took up long distance running and maintained a low weight until I was just over 40. Unfortunately a change of job and address meant a reduced exercise regime for the next 10 years but I still kept physically fit. I then had an MI at age 49 and needed Triple CABG.
I firmly believe the stress of the increased responsibility I took on with the new job was the main causal factor along with a small element of genetic disposition. Nearly 20 years on from surgery I still lead an active lifestyle - can't say there have been no bumps along the road but all in all life is good. In the last week or so have been diagnosed with AF which has knocked me back a bit as getting some side effects from the new meds (Apaxiban and Bisoprolol) which the medical team are trying hard to resolve. Early days yet so hopeful they'll get it sorted.
Well done Benjoy. My friends are always telling me to stop anticipating the worst just live for the day😊
Hi Polypuss, It's almost as if you are treating your very interesting observations as a scientific study, but if you are not scientifically trained, it's easy to miss something and come to the wrong conclusion. A couple of important observations I would make to add to yours which could change your conclusion, is that as people get older, they generally put on more weight for a variety of reasons and the other is that dead people don't go on cruises. There is an awful lot of relatively young obese people in the graveyard. I have friends who are obese and are perfectly healthy whereas I am slightly overweight and have bunch of health problems and it does make me think along your lines at times
😊
This is what I am having trouble with - the belief of some that you can be obese and at the same time be healthy. I think you can be overweight and healthy, perhaps, but the mere fact of being obese means a person is unhealthy. Obesity is a disease and a medical problem.
Hi Pollypus,
I'm 63, 15 years post CABG, and trying to lose weight (again). There are lots of risk factors for heart disease and other serious illnesses. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view) very few risk factors (if any) are predictors of illness or premature death for given individuals. Smoking, drinking, being overweight, diet, age, sex (male, or female, rather than not getting enough), high blood pressure, diabetes, lack of exercise, genetic factors, the environment, etc. all play a part. I just think you/we have to try to live the best life you/we can ... and try to reduce risk factors if and when you/we can (or want). Even if every individual risk factor seemed to be societal 'average', there are no guarantees that life expectancy will equal the average. Ultimately life is a wee bit of a lottery, and not always fair either. Knowing the risk factors simply helps us to blow on the dice before we roll them.
Luckily I am fairly healthy, and, for me, mental health is as important as physical health ... so I do things that make me feel good. Looking after my heart is just part of the jigsaw. 
Cheers,
David (Fish4Info)
I am 8st 2 and 63 I have been this weight since I was about 10!! Only exception when pregnant two weeks later back to 8st. But I have osteoporosis, osteoathritis amongst other things that I won't bore you all with, 18 months ago I had a transplant all due to genetics, I can't thank the NHS enough for treatment. I would love to be overweight eat everything on the ship and get hammered every night go them for having fun life's too short, enjoy every single minute you can, it might be your last. Char x
Talking about obesity.!!!!!On my way to work every morning I have to stop at quite a few pedestrian crossings to let the school children cross and I am shocked at how many overweight children there are.!!
A lot are obese and some are actually really big. I imagine this country is going to have a explosion of many different health problems when these youngsters get older.?
Not good 😳
Your observation was of the young. Mine was of people who were much older and I thought would have learned the lesson but my shock was that they had ignored .,,the lot
I think it is very easy to jump to conclusions, you see an overweight person on a motorised scooter, are they on the scooter because they are overweight, or are they overweight because they have mobility problems?
Hi Pollypuss, we would always ask that members of the community avoid giving advice on medication or other lifestyle changes, for more detail on this please take a look at the BHF’s community guidelines: healthunlocked.com/bhf/post...
You can also find more information on healthy eating which has been compiled by the BHF’s clinical experts here bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo... Many thanks.
Pollypuss• in reply to
Wouldn’t dream on giving advice on lifestyle changes . My worry is that stress is not mentioned often enough as one of the major causes of not just heart disease but other major diseases. Myself and many people suffer and trying to cope with it is not easy
I'm in heart failure in consequence of cancer treatment.
I was not alerted to the fact that an immunotherapy drug given to me as a three-weekly infusion to manage terminal cancer (metastasis from breasts to bones + bone marrow + brain) would likely result in heart failure (ejection fraction: 42%). I am now on four different cardiac drugs over and above chemo + immunotherapy and a raft of opioid pain relief. I begin my day at around noon with a total of 20 pills and capsules washed down with 20 ml S.O.S. immediate-release oxycodone. That regimen is repeated at regular intervals throughout the day.
I am relatively young, having been diagnosed with cancer for the first time six years ago - at the age of 50. That was the first of four cancer diagnoses.
Elsewhere within this thread, reference has been made to obesity statistics relating to breast cancer. I have maintained a weight of ±8 st (48-50 kg) throughout my life. Being relatively slender has not kept the cancer at bay.
I have lived a life of near-zero excesses and have eaten very healthily and remained fairly active until the last two years when the cancer spread, became terminal and left me in a wheelchair.
My brain tumour is inoperable and the clusters of tumours throughout my spine, pelvis, sternum, shoulders and clavicle are too widely and densely proliferated to be treatable.
I have experienced lapse after lapse in my care over the past few years.
The heart failure diagnosis last year has added insult to injury, but drawing comparisons and conclusions from this set of metrics is a futile exercise.
There are so many unknowns and hidden circumstances that encourage disease in one individual while leaving that individual's rather less-healthy-living counterpart wholly unscathed and untouched.
In the words of T.S. Eliot, "What should I resent?" (From The Wasteland, III. The Fire Sermon)
Gosh you are really going through the mill and so unfair for someone who has always tried to maintain a healthy way oh living. On this subject of diet and health it is so hard to understand “why me” when we try so hard to stay healthy and it doesn’t work . I attributed my heart problem to stress because that is all I could come up with. You must be one of the bravest people on this site
Bravery is a relative proposition!
I could be in an even worse position; so many people have to do this on their own. I don't. Those lone souls are the truly brave among us. I cannot fathom even a moment of their solitary trek across treacherous terrain towards a destination they will never reach.
Well I think you are amazing
Thank you for taking your valuable time to share your insight. Sorry for your suffering, and totally respect your ability to reach out to help other.
This forum is a lifeline to so many. I look in rarely now; there was a time this was my daily retreat.
I've stepped back from a great deal of the tech in my life now, though.
Alerts are disabled or go unheeded, and messages & emails go unanswered until/unless I have the wherewithal to respond.
The desire to reach out and help others when I am able lives on, though.
Allowing others to help me takes a little more work!
Just booked a 25 night cruise for September, I doubt very much I will be looking at the other passengers except to see the lovely outfits the ladies will be wearing on formal nights.
It will take a lot of self restraint not to over indulge but fortunately on a cruise the catering staff will listen to all your dietary needs and there is certainly a wide options of a healthy choice as well as having an excellent on board gym!!
Longer cruises are available without gastro food and push frocks. They are called prison ships!
Why do people feel they have to eat everything in sight. I don’t understand what you want. Two weeks of gorging on food would make me feel sick. I remember well the nurses having to turn overweight patients. Frankly I have been brought back to life by a team of surgeons who bothered to labour over my body for over threes hours. The least I can do is now live a healthy life and repay them for all they have done for me
The fact that we did not put on weight but eat a great deal was proof that the food was excellent so temptation wasn’t a problem really
Just been reading all the posts, at 76 needing a bypass, who knows, if you didn't live so healthy, you might have needed one many years ago. Many here are so much younger starting their heart journey. Genetics didn't come into it for me, both my nan and mother had serious health problems and couldn't die, their hearts wouldn't stop, my mum died 63 absolutely full of cancer. Even though I'm the youngest in my family, I started heart problems first, my older sister since had bypass. I was always thin, size 8 after 3 children, then back issues and depression, meds plus lifestyle changes put the weight on slowly. Stress is my enemy, like you, I'm a carer, not easy. Every so often have to stop and re-evaluate, stop and smell the roses. Live every day to the best of my ability. Wish there was an easy answer, why? But until then, enjoy life. Please take care. Moni
As you say no-one knows whether by living a healthy life you have extended your life or not although we all hope that is the case.
In your 20's and 30's you live life to the full, you eat what you like (well you don't put on weight) you maybe smoke and drink (well you only live once don't you.)
In your 40's and 50's, you may slow down a little, but maybe money isn't so tight, still like an indulgent meal and a few glasses of vino and maybe a port, maybe finish off with a cigar (men and women)
Throughout all this you stay relatively healthy, maybe go jogging, swim once or twice a week and a few long walks or hill climbs
Now into your 60's when you wish you had lived better and everything catches up with you - if it hasn't a decade before.
No-one knows what is already going on inside or what lies ahead, all you can do is make good choices, sadly some people are marked no matter how they live their lives.
I am sure enough people could kick themselves over how they have lived their lives and wish they had done it differently, I don't think 'I told you so' is very helpful.
We are on this site because we have heart problems or someone we love and care about has heart problems I bet we have all lived different lifestyles leading up to the 'event'. The horse may have bolted but many of us are now chasing after it.
Keep healthy all, but remember this is not a dress rehearsal.
Lovely response . Thank you. It was a shock that took some time to take in the realty of it all. Yes I care for my disabled husband but like you I have to stop and smell the roses sometimes. I think stress is so hard to control and is an enormous issue for some . You take care as well 😊
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