I just listened to Chanel 4 News and I really feel they are over egging the pudding. Solders in Afghan also put their lives on the line it was expected of them. Not putting the NHS down but it is a job that always carries a risk. Worried were this is all going.
Does anyone know how many people have died in March compared to the numbers who die in a Normal March without Corona.??
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Oh dear. Prada, I don't want to start a row so I will beg to agree to disagree.
This is a completely new virus. Flu has been with us and we know how to treat it when it requires hospitalisation, the same with 'regular' coronavirus (aka the common cold) when it puts someone in hospital. Flu and the 'common cold' do kill thousands every year, and sadly it's the most vulnerable either very young, very old, and all with underlying conditions that make them susceptible to complications that usually kill them.
But this SARS-CoV-2 (scientific name) Covid-19 (specific strain) is different. It is SARSv2.00 on crack, if that helps explain it. Our scientists discover something new about it every day while our NHS staffers from porters to consultant respiratory experts are in there every hour trying to save lives.We don't know THE treatment that will work on those who should be able to survive, we don't even know who it kills, not really - the only thing we really know is it is a terrible death (no matter what that flake fake 'expert' the Beeb trotted out claims it is an easy death last night in an interview).
During armed conflict we need heroes - it doesn't matter if the soldier-sailor-airman says he/she only joined just to earn a pay packet, in reality he/she knew going in things could come down to battle stations and he/she keeps going doing their work even if they don't want to be there any longer. That's what makes them heroes - they know the risks and they keep going when really they just want to run for home.
During a pandemic we need heroes - and our NHS staffers are those heroes. Better than anyone they knew going into the medical field there would be difficult, frightening times ahead. And they did their training, they keep going to work even though they'd like nothing more than to be home with their loved ones - they keep strapping on the scrubs and that makes them heroes.
Well said Sunnie2day. I think you should have a podium on the 5pm downing st news conference
Thank you for saying exactly what I wanted to say Sunnie2day and admit being a Army brat I find the comparisons outrageous at this time, as would my late Father who fought in Korea amongst other conflicts. We need heroes in life everyday now more so with the NHS and all the other key workers out there.
43,946 deaths in England and Wales in March 2019, 51,229 in March 2018
I have to agree about channel four news, stopped watching it a few years ago, prefer my news without a massive political bias, which in any forum nowadays is rare.
Just to add to be clear, we have to remember the figure you quote is for ALL deaths including road traffic accidents, whereas the mounting deaths now are due to just one virus for which no- one has any immunity and for which, thus far, there is no known treatment or cure.
Your emphasis isn't needed. I quoted how many deaths in March for the previous two years, I believe people already know about the COVID19 situation.
All I was offering was a different look at what's going on, we seem to be on some sort of Hype.
What's going on in Syria. Iran. Libya. Lebanon this was all the news 4 weeks ago. BBC must be saving a fortune on Foreign Correspondents.
I am not a negative person I have a little concern over the hype. 12 months ago Junior Doctors threatened to tear up the NHS if they didn't get what they wanted. Remember Jerry Hunt all over the TV screens, it wasn't long ago
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Hi Mark missed saying Hi you still in Spain ??
If you are you take Care
Regards
Good evening to you, yes still here. Lockdown continues, announcement expected at the weekend of another two weeks until April 26th. No shortages of anything other than common sense, haha
Got to better than Plymouth !!
lol
Nope, been raining, hail most unlike southern Spain. Ah Plymouth, fond memories of there, my eldest daughter took her degree there, spent many hours journeying backwards and forwards from Essex
Thank you. I was also wondering about the comparative numbers. Where did you find the figures?
It's on the gov.uk site, if you Google how many deaths...morbid yes but you will find the link
Not sure how morbid it is considering seeing the numbers puts it into a sort of perspective.
Still think, however, this pandemic is worthy of deep concern despite the apparent lower mortality numbers. Novel virus' mutate and sometimes mutate into truly devastating monsters.
The Spanish Influenza is one of those mutants - and so far SARS-CoV-2 (Covid 19) is behaving precisely the same way Spanish Influenza did 100 years ago.
Both started as localised not so serious clusters that appeared slightly worse than 'normal' but for some reason hit harder on the vulnerable.
Then both mutated and started killing the so-called strong and healthy.
Look up 'cytokine storm'. It's what killed all those millions in 1919 and it's what is now killing thousands in 2020.
My heart goes out to NHS workers in all rolls but I can identify with what I take is at the heart of your post. As Ruth May (Chief Nurse) said today in paying tribute to two young Nurses who died from Covid19, the best way we can support the NHS at present is to stay home.
One of my neighbours who is constantly in and out of his home for no real reason (shopping everyday, visiting friends etc) was standing clapping and singing from window last night. Now I am not saying this is representative of the great number of people who do respect current distancing guidelines but will be typical of a significant number of people. I do get concerned we can get carried away with emotional tributes at the expenses of just doing the right thing. Rant over just my perspective and food for thought nothing more. Stay safe everyone
It’s hard to watch, isn’t it? Particularly hard when we are at particular risk, ourselves. I notice the young can be pretty cavalier about risk, as they think their immune systems will easily brush off the virus.
More worrying, even, for us oldies or hearties is that some are actually trying to get the virus (remember measles parties for toddlers?) so they will then be immune, and can get back to a free, unfettered life again.
" I notice the young can be pretty cavalier about risk "
Yes it is a well know Psychological trait it lasts till about 19 and then a physical change takes place in their brain. ( along with Marriage and Babies )
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Interesting! Is that as true for boys as girls?
No Kristin
Girls mature much earlier than boys as I am sure you know it's one of the reasons more young Boys get killed, albeit in Wars or Riding Fast Motorcycles than Girls
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Nothing like union street on a weekend, brings back a few memories.
What I find difficult to come to terms with is that the NHS seems to be getting all the praise yet, there is an army of support workers both in residential homes or out in the community, who get little pay, long hours and little or no praise.
Could also add a lot more to that list.
J
Yes the Prince Regent known as the Long Bar !! or the Antelope. and of course the NAAFI just up the Hoe.
I think I have done well to survive a HA, CABG, Stents, Heart Failure , A Tumour removed from my Parotid Gland , Not forgetting a Brain Bleed whilst working in the USA to be able to remember all that has gone on before. LOL
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I hope some of the people on here who have made such disrespectful, ill-informed and frankly embarrassing comments can find some paracetomol handy to ease their hangovers this morning.
A very loved relative works in the NHS. They wouldn’t want to be identified.
We have a brief chat on their way home after 13 hours doing whatever is needed to care for their patients. Filling in gaps, because so many staff are ill, clearing up sick, cleaning, dishing out food, organising tests, liaising, observing, more cleaning, holding hands, putting in far more hours than is reasonable etc etc,
Some protective gear has only just arrived.
But there’s such commitment to sick patients and the team and the NHS, that they all just do what’s needed, on the day, They will all have the virus soon. As specialist local beds are nearly full, they will soon be nursing some very very sick people, too.
It’s not the job signed up for.
Someone here mentioned soldiers.
Would soldiers be sent into active areas with no training, no weapon, and no helmet?
Really,..... soldiers choose to enlist they know what they signed up for, we didn’t sign up for this virus, BIG diffence don’t yer think.??
You have never heard of Courageous Restraint a policy used in Afghanistan.
What I was trying to point out is that over egging the NHS is leaving a lot of other very courageous people behind.
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Of course I know what Courageous Restraint is, but we too are fighting with not one arm but two tied behind our backs, no one made a soldier go to far flung places, it’s voluntary isn’t it.
Yes like all work is voluntary.
People can't see it's not Hancock or Johnson who is to blame for the lack of PPE it's the Procurement Managers within the NHS who are to blame ( Blame is not a word to use in this situation though ) that will come later.
Hancock doesn't go out and says we need 5 000 000 pairs of Gloves or Aprons. People need to look a little closer to Home when discussing the NHS it's not all Florence with sweat pouring off her brow. It is an organisation that eats Billions.
Read the posts on here about people who have been let down by the NHS. It seems you have taken my post as anti NHS it's NOT
ps My Best Friends Daughter is a Nurse, My Daughter in Law is a Nurse, My cousin is a Professor of Cardiology ( Emergency Care ) So I do understand. Oh and just for good measure my son served two tours in Afghanistan watching his best friend lose both legs before his friend died.
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Hi Prada, I do agree that many journalist are overdoing it. I do get it, understand the virus deadly and novel, that we lack immunity and treatment. I understand and what we all need to do, ie stay at home. I get NHS staff and many other key workers are taking huge risks to deal with this situation. But I do agree it's being overdone on many news channels.
Most people are staying at home a few are not. That will always be the case, but we do not know why people don't follow the rules. We don't know what's going on in thier lives. Some element of selfishness for some, no doubt but others may be suffering from severe mental health problems and can't access support at this time for instance. No one knows what's going on in others lives.
I fear more than the virus the impact of other services being suspended, no community mental health support, people being discharged from hospital before they are ready those awaiting diagnosis or treatment of other serious conditions, those losing thier livelihoods etc.... I do understand that much of this maybe necessary but many suffer as a consequence.
I've stopped watching the news and come off Facebook. I watch the offical update to keep up to date, but nothing else. I can't deal with the rest of the news media, there has, in my view, been a loss of perspective in many cases.
I do agree with your post. A lot of things are going to change when this is all over and all over it will be.
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I do agree with those two sentiments, it will be over, but when and how is very much up in the air. I do not believe that many of the points raised in the C4 program were sensationalist, if one uses their own common sense and logic it is easy to see what a grim situation we are in and how it could easily turn into disaster. It does not bear thinking about the consequences when this virus starts to spread in highly populated countries that do not have the ability to fight it. To suggest that nurses signed up for a job that may entail them dying as a result of it is extremely disrespectful particularly given the two deaths yesterday. I think the program raised some good issues, particularly those regarding the way society may need to change anyway once we get over this crisis, with another one looming and the world in general choosing to largely ignore it. Maybe we all need to start thinking about the mad capitalist rat race we are living in and think of this current situation as mother nature throwing a huge spanner in our works. The virus has probably been caused by natural environments being destroyed and the Chinese (and others) misplaced greed driven by their obsession with medieval medicinal remedies. They are hugely culpable in this given their track record and when the dust has settled they need to be brought to account for it.
I sat outside the pharmacists yesterday waiting to pick up a prescription for a neighbor who has cancer and C19, looking at all the cars driving past with personalized number plates, most of which you can't even make out what they are supposed to be, thinking what nonsense our society has become in some regards.
The fact outlined last night, is that this will not be properly over until we get a vaccine, and is by no means certain if we ever actually will or indeed if antibodies will last long. These periods of lockdown although vital to keep the numbers down, will not eradicate the virus and as was also said this could go on for a very long time. As the father of a daughter and son in law who are both self employed I fear for their and many others future as well as all those people in a similar situation, but it is nothing compared to those in the thick of it right now, and personally I feel any comments other than absolute respect for all NHS staff are unwelcome at this moment.
Lets hope everyone keeps safe and home this weekend, I am sure all on here will.
Hi Guitarist
What worries me, no not worries causes me concern is we have People in this Country that believe Coronation Street and East Enders is real !!
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At least they have stopped filming, so it's not all bad. What I can't understand is who thought it would be a good idea to put Miranda back on.
Well said. xx
i have nothing but good words to say for the NHS staff who treated me after my HA. they were all superb, but i understand your point.
The NHs is treated similar to a religion. any criticism of it, or staff is seen as heretic behaviour. clearly there are many superb people working there who go over and beyond the call of duty, but there are also many useless workers there as well. (blood contamination deaths...Mid staffs hospital fiasco....)
like all organisations it has some great departments, but others that could be better. it’s important to recognise the ones who are performing well but not be afraid to shine a light on areas that need drastic improvement.
the whole ‘NHS angels and hero's’ rhetoric makes it difficult for people to offer any form of criticism which, in the long run, doesn’t do anyone any good.
Regarding the news. my advise is to ignore ALL main stream news. they are all a disgrace. do your own research and come to your own conclusions, would be my tip 
Have a look at this.
ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation...
Just had a quick look excellent informative link thanks
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Likewise and stay positive😀👍😀👍😀👍
Clear Perspective here. Just facts, no gloss. Thank you.
Sorry but you can’t compare the two. I’m an exraf brat and an ex army wife and a mum of a serving soldier. My son did Afghan and Iraq 6 times my daughter inlaw did 4 times. I went couple of funerals of my sons friends. I no what I went through and other parents. It really winds me up when ppl compare this disease to war.
Just before "brexit" ended I commented to a friend what will the media do now? They will be waiting for a catastrophe to occur, didn't expect this though. They should be stopped from this 24/7 bombardment
On a similar vein - I posted this on a chat forum a couple of days ago - now I saw it was being debated with even more conviction on newsnight last night!
"Why are Sweden taking a different approach? Is it as simple as they are a less “dense” population?
Reading this article (link below) puts a different spin on what happens normally in the U.K with 1600 people dying every day under”normal” circumstances every year - usually 17,000 dying of flu - but that is normally spread over 6 months whereas this virus might see the biggest impact over 6 weeks - hence the pressure on the NHS which cannot be ignored - it’s all about capacity.
The article though acknowledges that there is an overlap with “people who were going to die because of underlying conditions in the near future” and Professor Neil Ferguson who seems to be the leading expert in the U.K says as many as two thirds of deaths might have been going to happen in any event - (maybe slightly earlier than they would have been?)
But the really interesting read - the point questioning are the deaths we might save by prolonged lockdown going to be cancelled out by the deaths caused by mental issues, poverty caused by an economic crash etc. as a result of a prolonged lockdown?
I suspect we will really only know 12 months after this virus has been beaten.
bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654
Now if I were young again - (I am nearly 70 and had a double bypass 11 months ago - during which my lungs collapsed but I have recovered well) - I might be thinking:
"hang on - the vast majority (but not exclusively) are deaths in the very elderly population and as a consequence our economy and our lives have been shattered once more (2008 crash) and who will pick up the tab for this in future years whilst the elderly maintain the rewards of their often very good pensions and bullet proof lifestyles?"
Wow that’s some egg, I am retired Cardiac Nurse, no axe to grind, good to joust a little. Hope you are yours sre safe too. Best wishes
I can't really see the comparison. The army is bottom line about killing and getting killed - something that all squaddies are aware of when they sign up (different if conscription is enforced as there are choice issues). NHS staff and other 'front line' workers should generally not be in this position their job is to heal and save life and if they had been provided with adequate Personal Protection Equipment should not be so at risk of losing their lives. Also they are in the awful position of knowing they could be spreading the virus to those at home and be killing their parents, partners and/or their children.
I imagine that the corona virus deaths are in addition to normal March deaths which will probably see a drop in road accident related deaths but an increase in deaths from people who have had non Covid 19 related medical needs that have not been addressed due to hospitals and GPs cancelling operations, treatments and testing.
This is a very difficult subject, isn't it? I see the interviews with hospital staff who are totally committed to their job, even to the extent of losing their own lives, and my heart goes out to them. When it comes down to it they will do whatever it takes for you if you happen to be one of the unlucky ones who need intensive care.
The media need new stories and different perspectives every day to fill their ever-expanding news bulletins. Sometimes I hear something that makes my blood boil: like the woman who had arranged to go the Ukraine to collect the baby that had been born to a surrogate mother there and now couldn't get back. That kind of behaviour - "I want it, I want it now and I'm damn well going to get it" seems to me to be a symptom of where we are as a society now. Compare and contrast with the unselfish attitudes of nurses and doctors going back every day to the same ward full of dying patients at risk of losing their own lives.
The daily updates with latest death tolls and the interviews with medical staff are all genuinely shocking and sometimes heart-wrenching and no doubt all are true. But there is another reality that has been alluded to in several of the posts above. How many of these deaths are over and above those that would have happened anyway- possibly thanks to other infections? For those who would like to explore this there is a very interesting site put together by a Swiss doctor. He/she may have a bit of a political axe to grind but it is well worth a read, even if you don't fully agree with it. Personally i'm not sure where I stand. Can both perspectives be true?
swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on...
That report is fascinating and should be read by e ergo e who has posted on this thread. Thank you for the link.
Prada47, I have been out in my garden this afternoon mulling over all the messages to and fro from your comments. Yes I do think our nhs workers and everyone else supporting in any way are hero’s, risking their lives in their duties.
But, I do remember the days of our soldiers and others in Iraq and Afghanistan. And how every day on the news would be the account of how many had been killed, and the details of the horrendous injuries from the iud’s
And at times we saw photos of the individuals with heart rending personal truths how for eg he or she was to be discharged in a week , or partner at home was just about to have a baby.
And yes, help for hero’s was started and is still being supported. Also of course Prince Harry making sure those who were injured, whether physically or mentally will never be forgotten, and those who wish to apply, may be selected for the Invictus Games. And how amazing they all are. We know also many still needing treatment for PTSD.
I am sure there are others who can remember those days, however we are in this situation now in lockdown and self isolation, and of course lots of time to think!!
I just want to add I have a beautiful granddaughter, newly qualified doctor at a London hospital, and yes on trauma, and on a Covid 19 ward, doing the 13 hour shifts as so many others. She walks to and fro the hospital from her house share to get some fresh air. She is due due for some days off after tomorrow, but doing extra to cover for some going off sick!
And like soldiers, what she is seeing, the suffering, and of course endings, not easy to witness.
My wish for her and so many thousands is STAY SAFE, and please please may they get support for how it may have affected them when it is all over.
Oh dear I have gone on a lot, but as a retired nurse, I have plenty of memories of coming off shifts exhausted!
I’m trying to make the most of this spell ‘at home’
My cardiologist is having his consultation with me over the phone Monday afternoon,
must write things down! First contact with him since open heart surgery July 19.
Hello marigoldb reading your post brought a tear to my eye, everything you said I could relate to, of course our armed forces need to be remembered, but as you say we are in the middle of a huge battle with this virus. My thoughts and prayers are with everyone doing what needs doing and with your Granddaughter. You must be very anxious about her. My eldest granddaughter who lives in Australia is hoping to start Medical School next February, and as I read your post kept seeing her face and how I would be feeling if it was her.
Hope you are doing ok after your surgery, stay strong and stay safe.
Best wishes Pauline
Thank you Pauline, I also have family in Australia, it’s hard when they are so far away.
I also have another granddaughter over there hoping to go to Medical School. They live in Brisbane. Best wishes to yours as she works hard to make the entry x
Thank you for the good wishes, they are in Perth and she is doing her school work over the internet so don’t know how her grades will work out, have most of my fingers crossed! before all the lockdown she was on course to get in but You just don’t know, like lots of people round the world there is uncertainty in all walks of life.
I too send by best wishes to your Granddaughter hoping to enter Medical School in Brisbane.
It’s funny both having Granddaughters in Australia wanting to study Medicine, funny old world with live in!
Best wishes Pauline
Thought I would maybe raise a smile had a delivery from Tesco this afternoon told the driver I hadn’t ordered anything he showed me the order my address alright looked at the name Daughter-in-law in Australia sent us a Sunday lunch plus bottle of wine! She got a delivery slot 10,000 miles away maybe should send her my shopping list!!
Hi 080311
Edith Cowan's in Joondalup good college Love Perth
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She is keen on Curtin Medical School, University of Western Australia, but we will have to see of her grades are good enough, she was on track but they are on lockdown to, and I haven’t heard what will happen, their school year is the opposite to ours her year finishes in December and starts again in February.
Our best friends live in Hillary's and we visit quite a lot that's how I know about Edith Cowan's at Joondalup. It's a great campus !!
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Son lives in Wembley Downs, Lily goes to Shenton College and the 2 younger ones go to Churchlands. So places around where you visit?
I love W A we went through all the procedure to emigrate, Because I had worked all around the World it took almost 6 months to get clearance from all the police forces including the FBI forfinger prints!!!
Then I took a bleed on the brain in Mississippi and my wife said No we retire to the UK so that was the end of that. Been a few times without any worries since have you been ??
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No, not been able to, I had my heart problems then my husband had his stroke and that put an end to any plans we had. Sons been home when we were ill and they are planning a trip home next year, but would have loved to see where they are apart from looking at a screen on FaceTime! Not the same but I suppose better than nothing!
Sorry your plans were scuppered too, but I suppose that’s life!
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Pauline
Hi Marigold
My posts are not to cause disruption I try to find out what others are thinking and to see if I am on the same wavelength !! Which I sometimes admit I am not, but most of the times I am. -} Lots of times it brings out some gems of an answer so I am quite comfortable in my skin and what I post.
My Cousin is a Professor ( Harvard ) of Cardiology. My Daughter in Law is a Theatre Sister ( old terminology ) My best friends Daughter (who we have known for 45) years is a Staff Nurse in an Infectious Disease Ward. My Niece is a Radiologist working 12 hour days doing Ward Chest X Rays
So I do understand the frontline. Personally worked all over the World and served in the Royal Navy.
Oh and on Coronary had a Heart Attack aged 34, almost 40years ago CABG followed by Stents and now diagnosed with Moderate Heart Failure so I never post anything lightly, I have thought about what I am saying
Regards and I Thank your Gran Daughter for her Service
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One interesting fact from an American news site, stated that a four fold increase in non Corona Virus related deaths occurred in Italy over the same period in 2019. One other harrowing story was of a 17 year old male, with corona virus symptoms who was refused treatment at a private American hospital because he did not have health insurance. He was sent to a public hospital but died of a heart attack in transit. Makes you appreciate the NHS.
I really feel you can’t really compare this virus and Afghan. I have been nursing for nearly 40 years and yesterday I wept for my fellow colleagues who died. Just never thought we would be in position in this country where we are expected to risk our lives in this way to look after our patients.
I am not directly using Afghan as a comparison it's just similar with people putting their life on the line for the better of us all, by doing the job they do.
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All I can tell you is, my wife and I don't believe we are being told all truths, and really calling it "the news" is an oxymoron. The last thing anybody and myself need with AF is "news", our house is now negative free: we don't listen or watch any MSM channels, BBC or government or buy newspapers, only humorous or positive things are allowed in and we really notice the difference. We bless everyone each day and the universe and we really notice the difference. All I can advise is do whatever you think is best for you, we are. Peace and love to all
I understand your disquiet , the military is not a good group to compare with the NHS.The list of heros are, as always the working class,the men and woman working on the front line ,doctors, nurses ,care worker,s shop workers, drivers, people vulonteering, the list is endless.You dont hear of many gestures made by those with the big money ,the billionaires and millionaires,who could make a contribution without endangering their lives!! not much change there then eh? as for your question regarding statistics they are all available on line !! her is a sample.....The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 20 March 2020 (week 12) was 10,645; this represents a decrease of 374 deaths registered compared with the previous week (week 11).
The average number of deaths for the corresponding week over the previous five years was 10,573; this means that the overall number of deaths in week 12 of 2020 was slightly higher than previous years.
Of the deaths registered in week 12, 103 mentioned novel coronavirus (COVID-19), which is 1.0% of all deaths.
This is lower than the figures reported by the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) as it takes time for deaths to be reported as it takes time for deaths to be reported.
If we analyse the data by date of death and look at registrations after 20 March, then 181 deaths resulting from COVID-19 occurred by 20 March, which is higher than the figures the DHSC publish as it includes deaths related to COVID-19 that took place outside of hospitals and those not tested for COVID-19.
This number is different from the count of deaths published on the GOV.UK website because of different reporting methods and timing: Office for National Statistics (ONS) weekly deaths figures are based on deaths registered in the stated week, and we have counted all deaths where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate as “deaths involving COVID-19”; the GOV.UK figures are based on deaths occurring to date, among hospital patients who have tested positive for COVID-19, and include deaths that have not yet been registered.
A total of 138,913 deaths were registered in England and Wales between 28 December 2019 and 20 March 2020 (year to date), and of these, 108 involved COVID-19 (0.1%); deaths that occurred up to 20 March but were registered up to 26 March, the number involving COVID-19 is 210.
These figures are based on the date the death was registered, not when it occurred; there is usually a delay of at least five days between occurrence and registration (more information is available in our impact of registration delays release).
I hope this helps!!
I hope the nightmare is now over
Mixing pills (prescription and over-the-counter)
Recovery after valve surgery!!
Feeling abandoned
