Vaccines: Good grief. Just read that those... - AF Association

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Vaccines

belindalore
belindalore

Good grief. Just read that those getting the Pfizer vaccine and the astra zeneca (I know I spelled the second one wrong) vaccines are going to have to wait now up to 12 weeks for the 2nd dose! When it's supposed to be 28 and 21 days. That's awful. The first dose only offers some help from the virus. I see a lot of problems with these vaccines as far as administering them to the public. Here in the USA some places are so disorganized. Wealthy people have butted in line (money buys everything you know, especially for those without a conscious who think they are privileged) to get vaccinated. Some of our politicians who said they wouldn't get a vaccine if it came about if Trump was still in office, couldn't wait to get their shots. Of course all the while saying the most vulnerable should get theirs first. Politicians are such hypocrites and suffer a lot from temporary amnesia.🙄 l pray that things get better so those of you who already had your first shot won't have to wait 12 weeks for the 2nd dose. I read an article that said at the rate we're going in the USA it could take 10 years to get enough people vaccinated. 😟 Seems everyone knew the vaccines were coming but no one seemed to get on the ball and have good plans in place to get the shots administered to people. I'm not really surprised. The way things have been going on in this country what's one more glitch. We have politicians telling us to stay home. Stay away from famiky and friends. Don't go out to dinner. But yet they do the exact opposite and then want to fine people or have them arrested if they don't do as they're told. Remember what happened to the Roman Empire?😒

166 Replies
oldestnewest

It is so serious in the UK that most of the Country have been put into tier 4 (the most serious), so serious that India & Norway have [reopened] flights to and from the UK🙄 So what do they know that we do not?

belindalore
belindalore in reply to john6

It's just insane.

This is all new to everyone but the evidence so far looks ok -and sometimes better- if the second dose is delayed Pfizer didn't do that in their trials so can't authorise it but the Oxford trials did and it worked well .We have such high numbers who are ill I think it is right to vaccinate as many with first dose as possible Everyone will get their second dose soon.

It’s a tricky one Belinda, but in view of this being a national emergency which is overwhelming the NHS, I think it’s probably the right thing to get as many first doses as possible into vulnerable people. It may be an administrative nightmare, and disappointing for those who were expecting their second jab soon, but there are a lot of elderly people who are very anxious to get their first. My husband is/was due to have his second jab in ten days and he’s fine with it being delayed, doesn’t mind waiting if more people can be protected, especially as it sounds as if the first jab gives a large percentage of protection and the second one is a booster of sorts.

Your politicians sound very familiar!

Take care and stay safe 😊

belindalore
belindalore in reply to Hilly22

I suppose you are right Hilly. The more who get vaccinated the better. My concern is do they really know enough about these vaccines to say waiting up to 3 months to get the second dose will be okay. There must be a reason to only wait 21-28 days for the second dose. Not 3 months. It's been stressed, from what I've heard over here in the USA, that it's 21-28 days between doses. From what I've read the first dose is minimal in protection. So seems you all hear one thing and over here we're hearing the opposite. So frustrating.

I read John's post above. Why are people flying to the UK from other countries? Including the USA? Nothing makes any sense.☹️ You stay safe also. All we can do.

Dadog
Dadog in reply to belindalore

The whole point is that Pfizer, in their package paper, state that the second phase injection must be made in three weeks. Who decides to change that? Politicians? Pfizer developed tested and produced the vaccine and state that they have not tested it with a 12 week wait between doses. Who knows better than them?

belindalore
belindalore in reply to Dadog

I wonder too. I read another article today that said the vaccines that are two doses will only reach full protection if given the way they were intended. 21-28 days apart. Obviously they were made to work that way. Now all of sudden it's said it's okay to wait 3 months for the second shot. Here in the USA the scientists and so called experts at first say the vaccines must be given as originally intended. Now I read some areas are going the route of the UK. Wait the 3 months. And then I read there are vials of vaccine waiting to be used. I really don't understand what the heck is going on.

wilsond
wilsond in reply to belindalore

The Oxford Zeneca vaccine gives 75% protection for up to 3 months then second tops it up to 90-95%

Better to have 40million with a good level of protection than 20million with slightly better protection.

Also,in the trials those who had had even one dose of vaccine did not require hospital treatment even if they got "it"so nhs is not so hit by bad cases.

One of my sons had his first and now got 10 week date for second. My aunty same.

I think they are doing a great job here in the UK we have already vaccinated just over a million ,more than the rest of Europe put together.

Stay safe B

Dawn x

Dadog
Dadog in reply to wilsond

Dawn, the Oxford vaccine is a totally different formula than the Pfizer. They can't be compared in this way. When I received my first shot I was told that it was very important to attend in 3 weeks to complete the process.

belindalore
belindalore in reply to wilsond

I think you all are maybe a little more organized than some places in the USA. Some places here are requiring people to make appointments either by phone or the internet. People couldn't get through by phone and the internet crashed. I think they should have tested those services a little better way before they started receiving the vaccines. No excuse for such disorganization. People are already on the edge without having to deal with trying to get their appointments.As far as the effectiveness of the vaccines it seems you hear one thing and the USA hears another. 🙄No matter where it is, people should be receiving the same information.

And I've heard the USA wants to wait up to 3 months now instead of the 21-28 days. Scientists and Drs aren't too happy with that here. They say it should be given as it was in the drug trials. ?????? No one seems to know what's right.

Best to you and yours. Hope all goes well for you over there..

cicek
cicek in reply to Hilly22

We live in Derbyshire. My husband is 81 with a lung condition and has heard nothing about a vaccine yet. We are being very careful for our own sakes and of course for the sake of everyone else out there and don't mind waiting as long as the right people are getting it first.

Hilly22
Hilly22 in reply to cicek

Same here cicek. Husband is 83 with a lot of risk factors, so we’ve been very strict about our self isolation.

I say keep doing what you’re doing and stay safe x

Omniscient1
Omniscient1 in reply to Hilly22

Hi, I live in Skipton and friends were vaccinated on day one a few weeks ago by their GP surgery, both over 80. Get on to your gp and find out what's happening. Dont wait for them to call you.

Your surgery must be one of the few ones equipped with a very low temperature fridge to store the vaccine? I have friends who are over 80 who haven't heard anything yet. A friends aunty who's 90 was due to have hers, but they rang her to say they had run out of the vaccine.

I think I once the vaccine is thawed out it can be kept in a normal surgery fridge for a few days, so I imagine what you're describing is the usual cock-up situation we're all sadly used to.

That’s terrible Jean, the poor thing 😞

Hilly22
Hilly22 in reply to Omniscient1

Hi Omniscient. That’s good to hear. We’re near Harrogate, and I have to say they’ve been amazingly efficient here too. They’ve got things very well set up in The Pavilions - husband had his first shot 3 days before Christmas and due his second on Tuesday week. If he doesn’t hear anything he’ll just turn up for his appointment.

Best wishes from over the Pennines 😊

Hatelupus
Hatelupus in reply to Hilly22

I had my first on the 15th December and 2nd yesterday,3 weeks later. I was worried they were going to make me wait 10 weeks but they seem to be honouring the end dose appointments that have been already booked. Anyone having their 1st dose was told they had a 10 week wait till the next. This was Pfizer vaccine.

cicek
cicek in reply to Hilly22

Thank you. You too and good luck x

G'day Belinda,Yeah, well I have read and read and watched vids and listened to politicians and these empidemiologists prattling on about all this and I have personally chosen NOT to have the vaccine. In Britain you have Professor Jonathon Van-Tam giving his views ( which make a lot of sense), and his colleagues in other health care areas ........... and the government playing fast and loose with the population, who are basically, self centred and selfish and probably other things too as well as being as thick as a Standing Stone of Cornish Granite. There are so many conflicting reports ( not always media driven ...... and don't damn well start me off on the goddam media) that I really can't be bothered with it all.

Hell - I am 76, I have worked continuously through 2 lockdowns ( in Britain) with a highly controlled version of AF ( in its purest sense - not necessarily highly controlled other symptoms), and a smattering of osteoarthritis. All the time I have been exposed to members of the public because I drive buses - and to be honest I really don't even think of covid. Driving my bus next Tuesday will be another day with my colleagues another day in the office and if I am lucky with the weather I will be driving along one of the most beautiful parts of Cornwall ( if not Britain) starting at Lands End and working my way along the Atlantic coast for a bit and eventually back to Penzance.

I just don't care. I take all the personal precautions I can to safeguard myself and other precautions determined by my employer to safeguard passengers, many of whom are a damn sight younger than me but in worse medical condition.

I am heartily sick of politicians manipulating advice from these epidemiologists to suit their own brand of politics. The simple fact is Britain should be ... and needs to be totally locked down. Nobody moves anywhere - back to as it was in April 2020. sure the economy will die, people who invest will loose it all, business will die, BUT, its happened before and the world survived.

So, why am I not taking the vaccine: 1) Because I have no faith in a government manipulated NHS at GP practice level, 2) Because I have no confidence in my GP practice calling me for an injection on the grounds that I am elderly, frail or vulnerable, 3) My GP will look at my track record and say .... he doesn't need it. His BP is fine, his HR is fine, his AF is controlled, his body is using Warfarin ( Coumadin to you guys) but his blood tests are nice and regular and he is within range and his osteoarthritis is a nusience rather than needing dramatic attention or surgery. 4) I am aghast at the proposed practice of giving people the first jab and then leaving it for 3 bloody months till they get their next shot. This is telling me that there isn't enough vaccine around and the authorities are trying to stretch what supplies they have as far as possible... really ! 5) Even if I had a jab there seems to me to be a risk of having one brand at first and a totally different brand 3 months later !!

Oh! yes, I know people will say it can't happen .... but we are all in a crisis world, and in times of crisis and pressure mistakes will and do occur. 6) Why trust a vaccine that can be produced in 1 year - rushed through as it were - when it normally takes over 10 years. 7) Viruses like this are a highly intelligent life form, their job is to mutate and destroy other life forms, be it people or economies. 8) as I said I take Warfarin. Nobody can tell me how many guinea pigs participated in these vaccine trials who were on Warfarin. All I get is pathetic platitudes like ......... oh its quite safe. Never seen that " safeness" quantified. So, given that AF can generate dilated atria, which can generate a stroke, which can be and often is fatal Warfarin for me is my security blanket ... why in hells name would I take a vaccine that I am told ... is quite safe when that statement isn't supported when it could mess around with the degree to which my blood is anticoagulated. I already have one document which says that if your INR is stable you can safely take the vaccine ---- yet in the same document it says if your INR is unstable its advisable not to !! Really !

Just who is trying to fool who. So its a Stroke v CoVid, I'll take my chance with CoVid but I won't take a chance with a Stroke !

Anyway Belinda, A Happy New Year and wherever you are in the US - stay safe.

John

JackyMac
JackyMac in reply to carneuny

I believe in Cornwall you are in tier 1 with very few cases of covd and life is as good as 'normal'. If you lived in a tier 4, you may think differently, where the disease is spreading like wildfire. The children are the super spreaders, without any symptoms, mingle at school and take virus home to families. Roll on a vaccine for children.It must be lovely to live an almost normal life, in which case can understand your sentiments.

carneuny
carneuny in reply to JackyMac

Hi JackyMac,

We are now in tier 2. Only Isles of Scilly are tier 1. By the time I reached my late 30's I had 4 children, so I am well aware of their innate ability to super spread - anything !! That process now applies to my grandchildren 😊 two of whom are now in the Solihull area.

Generally speaking we bus drivers have stayed CoVid free and we do that by following Government guidelines as do most other public facing employee groups, i.e. supermarket workers, petrol station workers, not forgetting the poor sods in the front line of the NHS. There are a few exceptions, many exceptions in case of NHS.

Mostly down here we do as we are told unlike other areas of Britain. My niece announced before Christmas when they were tier 3 that they were coming down from the Coventry area. Even though they got promoted to tier 4 they still came down. They invited us to a get together. We refused. The annoying thing is they announced to me that they were fed up and had the opportunity to use a friends private house, wanted fresh air. ( Well the weather was so crap they certainly got that 😃). Then I saw someone challenged them on their Facebook page and they excused themselves on the grounds that the husband had to attend to work down here. They wonder why we didn't meet them. Dumb ass selfish turkeys! By the way, 2 adults, 4 kids. As for living a normal life not true, there is nothing normal about walking around in public areas with a face mask on! BUT what we try and do is follow advice. And by the way when I am in my bus stuck in traffic it is easy to see who are foreigners, just case car number plates, gives a pretty good idea.I don't believe this virus is gonna be beaten, it will be subdued, it'll end up like flu, with us year on year, with a changing vaccine formula each year like the flu jab.

John

rosyG
rosyG in reply to carneuny

not to alarm you John but to start you off on the research needed! This is from the report into the 29 bus drivers who died in London from Covid between march and May'The mortality rate in male London bus drivers aged 20-64 was 3.5 times higher than men of the same age in all occupations in England and Wales from March to May, likely due to London being an early centre of the pandemic.'

As this variant is more infectious, do do the research before making final decisions re vaccination! Stay safe

carneuny
carneuny in reply to rosyG

Hiya Rosy, nice to see you back on here once more. hopefully your surgery is starting to produce great results for you. Its a long road isn't it ? But worth it.Thanks for your interesting comments - all of which I was unaware. I can't really comment without knowing the bus companies involved and what their management instructions are to staff and indeed how their buses are set up. The company I work for is international with significant operations, not just in UK but in Singapore too. So, we have massive experience to draw on.

We are not forced to wear face masks, and those of us who wear glasses wouldn't anyway, lens misting up issues. The cab is protected by a large perspex screen with a hand size slot so that passengers can put their coins on a tray when buying a ticket. Mostly these days the passengers are concession card holders or use contactless.

Before I leave home I take my temperature and as an added precaution use a blood oxy meter to make sure my blood is up around the 98 % or thereabouts.

When I get to work the duty manager does another temperature check which is put against our name when we sign on. All buses have, in the baggage area, a holder secured to the side of the bus containing a bottle of sanitiser press the nozzle, wash your hands as you get on or off the bus or both if you wish, drivers have wipes to wipe down any area, the cab area, steering wheel etc . Most adult passengers come on wearing face masks and are compliant. Children and teenagers are a different matter and ( unless they are part of a school bus service ) if they aren't properly equipped or have some sort of exemption ID they are refused travel.

The problem with London is its sheer population size and the gross acts of civil disobedience that has taken place in recent months. Not just London either, look toward the Midlands and the North. People get the justice they deserve.

The problem I have always had with statistics is this ....... they only convey corrupt data. For instance right from the beginning they have conveyed data on deaths and new cases - I have never seen a balance of statistics, like an inclusion of those who contracted the virus, were treated and survived. So all we have is death rate and outbreak rate but no recovery rate. I call that government healthscare terrorism. And I really doubt that every death is due to CoVid. Did a person die of CoVid, from CoVid or from complications associated with a pre-existing health condition. And for all the efforts you have hundreds of thousands of idiots like my niece flouting it all.

Anyway, thanks for steering me towards different statistics.

Its all academic right now 'cos I haven't heard a word from my GP Practice as to whether they even have the vaccine, much less being offered it. Hey ho, out of sight down here at the pointy end of Cornwall ... out of mind.

Stay safe Rosy, and thank you

John

Dadog
Dadog in reply to carneuny

Hi John. One point I pick up from your interesting comments - you are still on Warfarin. Why not one of the new anticoagulents? I came off Warfarin some years ago and am so much happier with Rivaroxaban. Blood test only once a year, one tablet a day and don.t have to take with food. Great! Just a thought. Happy driving and take care.

David.

carneuny
carneuny in reply to Dadog

Hiya David,Thanks for your thoughts.

Well, I've been on Warfarin now for just on 11 Years. I am one of the fortunate ones who have taken to it like a duck to water. It was originally prescribed (amongst other drugs) by my cardiac consultant who formally diagnosed AF. Back in the day, the NOAC's we know today were still in developmental and/or trial stages.

After diagnosis and my AF sorted, and tests done I was discharged and eventually returned to work bus driving. Problem was the shift work made it virtually impossible to attend for INR tests. Eventually my GP surgery in Surrey at the time, suggested the Coaguchek self testing device. With the support of this great INR clinic I bought my device and have used it all the time. It goes everywhere with me, including Australia, if I'm away at the time an INR test is due. I do the test, phone or email the result to my surgery and they phone or email my next dose and my next test date and life goes on quite normally. My test frequency nowadays is 7/8 weeks. My INR is regularly within range and I have no bleeding or bruising issues.

My current GP (probably 35 ish) would like me to move over to the NOACS. So I just say to her - why? they are more expensive than Warfarin and as you well know I have no problems with my INR ( unless I mess around with my green veggies). That shuts her down !

The NOACs are a total godsend for those that have problems with Warfarin - I'm not in that category, so, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

So, my thoughts are - if I swing over I might well leave a drug which is of no consequence to me any more than taking a pain killer like CoCodomol is - to any one of a number of new drugs from which I may well suffer side effects from, unnecessarily. For me it doesn't compute.

I have also taken the trouble over the last 11 years to learn as much as I can about Warfarin and the way its behaves in different settings and it just doesn't give me the frighteners.

I take my Warfarin at 8 pm each night along with my other night time meds. Don't take it with food and I have made no concessions to it at all including alcohol. I hate ( with a vengence) green veggies, and so I play around with them. That can upset my INR but I know its me - NOT - Warfarin. As a kid my parents almost had to force feed me green veg 😂😂

Thanks again for your enquiry David and I hope this gives you an idea of where I am. Stay safe in these dodgy times.

John

Auriculaire
Auriculaire in reply to rosyG

London bus drivers might be more likely to be from BAME backgrounds . BAME people have had much higher rates of infection and death.

rosyG
rosyG in reply to Auriculaire

Yes but balance that with the more infectious nature of the hew variant.

Yes but it could be that BAME people are more likely to catch it because more of them seem to be in those types of jobs and in the caring profession too. So it works both ways. We must all continue for the next year to take care. a friend of mine is doing research work - she's a pharmacist with NHS Oxford and the head of the health trust has told her they envisage it will take a year before we can get back to anything near normal. It's OK for oldies like me who don't got o work and don't have to go out - and don't want to when I see what's happening in some places, but some have to work and children will have to go to school so we all need to take just as much if not more care than we have been up until now. It is only in this last week that I have known someone in this country who has definitely got C19. They are retirees like myself but so that their daughter can work (she is in the Police Force) have to look after their grandchildren now and again and I would say their teenage grandchildren have given it to their Mum and Grandparents. Thankfully they do not seem to be too bad with it and it has not been spread to any other people - even their Dad hasn't caught it - but that's probably because he is also in the Force and on another shift and they hardly seem to see each other these days (!). Stay Safe everyone and keep doing all the good things.

JackyMac
JackyMac in reply to carneuny

Yes, people are careless, and thoughtless, I agree. I know people who travelled to be with family for Christmas and two have covd and possibly rest of family now. We each have to look out for ourselves and loved ones and stick to the rules. If you don't take the vaccine, that's your choice, so stay safe

Dadog
Dadog in reply to JackyMac

Quite right, JackyMac. We have just had our first vaccine jab but always have and still soap wipe newspapers, parcels and post that come through the door. Hands get washed after every visit to dentist, doctor or hospital and after collecting recycling bins from roadside. Seems like overkill to some but we just don't want to be careless and go down with Covid19. (vaccine or not).

Hilly22
Hilly22 in reply to Dadog

We’re the same Dadog. We even iron our newspapers and post ... which is great until you find a melted credit card inside the envelope lol

Dadog
Dadog in reply to Hilly22

Just go steady, Hilly22! Wipe first, check, then iron!😅

Desanthony
Desanthony in reply to Dadog

You can go to your dentist? Haven't seen mine since Oct 2019. NHS dentists are only open here for emergencies - thankfully I haven't had one.

belindalore
belindalore in reply to Dadog

Do you have 70% antiseptic/rubbing alcohol there? It will kill viruses. Put it in a spray bottle and just spray your things. Much easier. Don't dilute it.

cicek
cicek in reply to carneuny

All very well said John. It seems to me that the only way the virus is spreading is via people and there are so many selfish people out there we will never see the end of it! Thankfully I do try to believe in human nature and I think the majority of us are doing as we should. It is infuriating on a personal note though because I do see so many breaking the rule e.g. my immediate neighbours. Police aren't interested. Where I live there was even a fireworks shop open on NYE. I'm sure that can't be essential. Good luck. Stay safe.

carneuny
carneuny in reply to cicek

Hiya cicek,Yes, all very sad. Well I can assure you, when passengers get on my bus, irrespective of age group ( the only exception being those who show me an official exemption card), they quickly learn my philosophy .... simples .... there is 2 ways of doing things, my way and the wrong way. Do it the wrong way and they don't travel. If they attempt to get in in a crush at the bus doors I always challenge them if need be - again they don't travel.

John

belindalore
belindalore in reply to carneuny

Good for you. Can you write up your instructions and send it to the nitwits here in the USA!? Lol. Boy if you did that over here you'd probably be dragged off your bus and beaten. People here are crazy. 😒

Unfortunately that happened here in France. A bus driver was dragged off his bus and beaten by 3 men because he told them they could not board the bus without masks. Masks are obligatory here in all indoor spaces and a lot of outdoor ones too. The poor man died 3 days later of brain injuries. He was only a few months off retiral.

That's awful. People have just lost their minds. Especially here in the USA with all these violent protests. It's almost like this pandemic is their excuse to unleash their violence. Instead of helping their fellow citizens...... Everyone take care, stay well and be careful.😍

cicek
cicek in reply to carneuny

Well done you. It's a pity there are more like you but I think many are afraid of the response they will receive. I saw a lady in a shop ask a young man to wear a mask and just got the two finger sign.

John, I thought Cornwall was in tier 3 now, the same as Devon. I've just looked and appears you are.

Well, that's interesting and you are correct. I just didn't know that. Mind you, I tend to watch TV bulletins and look at maps. All that's going to do is encourge people to come down here on the grounds that it doesn't matter where we go because everywhere is either tier 3 or 4, except the isles of Scilly. All the more reason to have a national lockdown ....yet again.

John

I agree we need a complete world wide lock down, for at least 4 weeks. However, it won't be any use unless we stop people coming into the UK. Everyone needs to stay in their own country and UK county for a good few months afterwards too.

People in the USA flying everywhere. Now I read they are flocking to Mexico to get away from lockdown. Never be rid of the virus, or at least halfway control it, when there are people like that.

Hilly22
Hilly22 in reply to belindalore

That sounds terrible Belinda. Perhaps the Mexicans should build a wall!

john6
john6 in reply to Hilly22

Lol 👏

belindalore
belindalore in reply to Hilly22

I couldn't blame them. 😕

Desanthony
Desanthony in reply to Hilly22

love it!

Jean,

Exactly right. I'd love to go back to Australia, but even if I were willing to spend up to 21 hours wearing a facemask, I still can't enter Australia! Despite having a current Australian passport with plenty of time to expiry.

John

Why would you be thinking of going to Australia now?

Jean,

Because Australia is home and I still have 3 out of my 4 kids there. I am also desperate for sunshine, blue skies and heat - not forgetting my grandkids. My other child is in Solihull, with my daughter in law and two grandchildren.

John

Why didn't you go back earlier then? Or do you want to go back there because there's less covid in Australia?

Too busy here and I also now have to consider my wife who is a Cornish chick ! She doesn't have an Aussie passport nor is she on mine. Nothing to do with CoVid. I just miss the place, the bush, the outback. We had a trip planned for 2020, but that soon got binned.

I always say this ...born in Cambridge ( UK) but ... made in Australia. For which I am so grateful. 🙂

Auriculaire
Auriculaire in reply to JackyMac

There is no evidence yet that the vaccines prevent transmission. Only that they make the disease less serious. Well there was plenty of evidence from several countries that a good level of vitamin D did that too AND some evidence that it helped stop you catching it. But there has been no rush to make sure that the population had adequate vit D levels . I think it would be wrong to vaccinate children who barely suffer from the disease with vaccines for which possible long term side effects are completely unknown .

I am really torn. There has been so much disinformation out there. Hear one thing and turn around and hear the opposite. The vaccines that come in two doses are supposed to be given 21-28 days apart. I assume there's a good reason for that. Plus I have only read and heard the first dose is minimal in protection. But in the UK I'm seeing the opposite. And now people in the UK will have to wait up to 3 months for the second dose. I understand vaccinating as many as possible but it doesn't make sense to wait 3 months when it's been seared in everyone's brain 21-28 days according to which double dose vaccine one gets. Plus I don't like the idea of the UK mixing vaccines. The roll out here in the US has been slow and disorganized in some places. Then there's the male pharmacist in Wisconsin arrested for intentionally ruining 500 doses of a vaccine. He admitted to it. Are there any more nuts like him doing things like that. As for me I'm wary of getting the vaccine after the bad reaction to my 2nd pneumonia shot. They say don't take it if you're allergic to an ingredient in a vaccine. How do you know you'll have an allergic reaction? The chemicals in these vaccines are not things we humans put in our bodies on a daily basis. I wasn't expecting to have a reaction to the pneumonia shot. But I did. It's like when I was diagnosed with Afib. No Drs wanted to try and find out what caused it or listen to me about it. Just take these meds. They're for your own good. Yeah. Except they were making me worse. I'm just not as trusting of the medical system anymore. And you are right Auiculaire, like with all meds, long term side effects are unknown.....I've never seen such a mess.

After my long winded post, I wish you the best and take care. Oh also vitamin C along with the vitamin D. 😉

I have not made up my mind about the vaccine yet. I have had a bad response to the flu vaccine the first year they put the H1N1 strain into the seasonal vaccine. Many floxies have had reactivation of their floxing symptoms with flu vaccine. I also had general unwellness for several weeks after a tetanus vaccine years ago. I no longer get boosters of these as I reckon I have had enough in my life to give some protection. There seems to be no info yet on whether the vaccine stops you getting Long Covid. Many of those suffering from this did not need / get medical attention for their initial infection.

Yes. I have reservations about the vaccines too. I don't like being treated like some sheep.

I haven’t had a vaccination since I was 19 and had the smallpox one. I didn’t want the flu vaccine because I have a history of autoimmune blood disorders, possibly linked to a particular antibiotic, but also with a genetic basis, and was worried it might kick off again. Maybe I should have had it, because over the last few years I have had several very severe flu-like infections which have left me with a tendency to bronchitis. For many years I was sceptical about mainstream medicine and as a result made some very mistaken choices that have had long-term effects. I’m older and wiser now. I am 76 with persistent AF And a defective mitral valve that needs an operation (could be a result of all the chest infections?) but goodness knows when I’ll get that - and decided that the risk was too great, particularly as we live in an area with the 6th highest number of cases in London, and pretty near the top nationally.

So when I was offered the vaccine I decided it would be madness not to have it.

I only had a slightly sore arm for half a day afterwards, and felt rather tired the next day, no other reaction.

The comparative speed with which the vaccines have been rolled out are not a result of rushed research and development processes, but reflect the amount of money put into them, worldwide government support and more efficient administrative procedures.

I just thought of the huge difference the polio, TB and smallpox vaccines have made. Vitamin D and vitamin C (in quite large amounts) as well as a diet high in vegetables, didn’t stop me getting respiratory infections. They can’t be relied on as sole protection. Older people in particular do not absorb nutrients as well.

So much misinformation has been shared on social media about vaccination, ranging from apparently rational arguments to totally off-the-wall conspiracy theories.

Having the vaccine doesn’t make you a sheep!

Dadog
Dadog in reply to Limoncello

Go along with all that, Limoncello. Could have been me posting! Older than you but same AF and mitral valve probs; plus losing various body parts like cancerous kidney and a no-good infected gall bladder. Still holding happily together and can't wait for my second vaccine dose - just hope it's not in 3 months time! I guess people like us have enough problems without coming down with Covid19.

Limoncello
Limoncello in reply to Dadog

Let’s just keep hanging on in there!

cicek
cicek in reply to Limoncello

Interesting to hear that you are 76 and already had the vaccine. Obviously getting more done down South that up here in the Midlands. My husband is 81 with lung disease but not heard anything yet. Good luck.

JackyMac
JackyMac in reply to Auriculaire

Actually I agree with you about vaccinating the kids thinking about it. It's the elderly which suffer most if they get it and filling up the hospital beds and taking all the resources. It is the right move to vaccinate elderly and key workers first and keep children at home.

Singwell
Singwell in reply to carneuny

Really interesting response John! (I mean this in a good way.) Have to say I'm totally with you on the need for full on lockdown because high % of British public sadly have no sense of social responsibility. And yes - we did survive a war - I wasn't born till the mid 50s but WW2 was very much in our psyche as kids. Both my parents left the UK due to post war misery and rationing and met out in Africa. We didn't return till the mid 1960s. Sadly I agree with you re NHS being government controlled. Talk in private to a medical pal (I know lots in ENT) and they're not happy with how the pandemic is being managed by the government. Not at all. Like you I feel all we can do is keep as healthy generally as possible - avoid contact with those we cannot trust - wait it out. There's something to be said for this situation teaching us self reliance - in terms of our wellness and internal happiness. Personally I'm.thinking about that a lot at present. Thank you for being a key worker BTW

carneuny
carneuny in reply to Singwell

Hiya Singwell,Yes indeed. I was born in Sept 1944, half way through the military operation known as 'Operation Market Garden' ( depicted in the movie A Bridge too Far). Although my Dad eventually learned he had a son it was a long long time before we met. He was stuck in one of many Army supply columns at Eindhoven, Holland. they were trying to get up to a Dutch town, Nijmegan. They couldn't progress until the Bridge and other bridges had been taken by the allies. The rest is history.

After the war we migrated to Australia but it wasn't a successful move and we returned to Britain arriving shortly after the death of King George 6th. in February 1952. When we left in 1949 Britain was in rationing .... it was still in rationing when we got back. I do remember, as a kid, doing errands for my mother buying groceries, buying meat armed with her ration book. At the time I fell in love with Australia and eventually returned on my own in my early 20's in 1967.

So we have a similar journey. Life down here in Cornwall is a little strange - I personally feel closer to the people of Brittany than the people of Westminster. Physically - in distance - we are probably closer to Brittany than Westminster 😃😃

I laugh at the term United Kingdom - I cannot think of a group of countries more disunited - ever. A total shambles. A little Buddhist philosophy wouldn't go amiss right now. Stay safe.

May the force be with you.

John

souljacs4
souljacs4 in reply to carneuny

Hello John have just read your post my Dad was with the 1st Airborne dropped into Ginkel Heath Arnhem September 1944 He was captured and sent to Stalag 11b He took us back there in 1984 it was a very moving experience He will always be my Hero😃

carneuny
carneuny in reply to souljacs4

Hiya souljacs,That now rings a bell. My Dad was a bit of an adventurer, had a good dose of the wanderlust. Left home at 16 with his older brother and they sailed to Australia under what then was known as The Big Brother Scheme. Australian Farmers sponsored English youths to come and work on Australian farms. They ended up in the State of Victoria, first just outside Wangaratta and then later down in south Gippsland, the latter still to this day my favourite part of the East Coast of Australia.

Long story short - at the start of the depression Dad made his way home and eventually joined up in the Royal Army Service Corps ( now the Royal Corps of Transport). I recall him talking alot about his time in as he used to put it ... " The Airborne", but never actually what he did or where he went. I cannot recall how he got to Eindhoven. He ended up at the end of WW2 somewhere in Norway and somewhere around I have photos he took of the German Battleship 'Tirpitz' destroyed by 617 Squadron I think.

A complete contrast to the start of his career which was in Palestine during the British Mandate in the 1930's and later Egypt. I believe that one can do tours of the various sites around Arnhem nowadays. Often thought I'd like to do it ... just for the 'old man'. Maybe in a post CoVid world, not that I think that'll happen anytime soon. Not that I'll be allowed unless I'm vaccinated, even a return to Australia either, so I might just have to have a vaccination if for no other reason than to travel. No hurry at this stage and I'm certainly not holding my breath for an invite from my GP. 😂😂

John

souljacs4
souljacs4 in reply to carneuny

Hi John What an amazing life your dad had Yes there are tours to Arnhem it really is worth seeing I hope you get to go back to Australia in the near future My niece is out there at the moment (tree planting) she's also sending the most stunning photos of the beautiful beaches and all that sunshine Lucky Girl .😎

carneuny
carneuny in reply to souljacs4

Hiya souljacs,So whereabouts is your niece at the moment .... any sense and she'll be up in Queensland and away from the big city lights 😄

John

souljacs4
souljacs4 in reply to carneuny

latest Instagram post she was spending New Years eve in Brisbane Oh to be twenty two again 😃

carneuny
carneuny in reply to souljacs4

yep souljacs ... know that feeling. That was the age I was when I first arrived in Sydney. Party town ...party time 😂😂🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺

belindalore
belindalore in reply to carneuny

Yes. Too much disinformation. The media is not trustworthy anymore. Nor is our government in the USA. I trust none of them. Republicans or Democrats. The new administration coming will finish this country off. I agree with a lot of what you say. Stay safe and well. It sounds like you enjoy your bus driving. 😊🙏

belindalore
belindalore in reply to carneuny

You are so right about the government and the media. So much one can't trust about either here in the USA. I still believe this virus was the evil doing of China. I've never trusted them. For years I've told people the USA and other countries who continue to try to work with China will wake up someday and will be putting on little grey suits and speaking Chinese. Hard to believe that Xi is head of human rights in the UN. What virus will be unleashed next. He will not give up until he rules the world. As far as the vaccine who knows if it is safe for everyone and that it will be safe to take with different prescription meds. I find it hard to believe that the trials tested the vaccine with all the different drugs people take. I don't believe for a minute that even in the regular trials each and every drug is tested with a new one. That's why there is the "7 year post drug trials". For 7 years after a new drug comes on the market the drug companies are watching for new side effects. That's also when you start seeing lawsuits popping up if the new drug does major harm to people. So that makes me concerned about the vaccines. Drs, insurance companies and big pharma all like to try and dumb people down to get them to believe these drugs are safe. I even read a story that when Biden got his vaccine, the cap wasn't taken off the syringe. I doubt if that's true ? but then I don't trust any politician. You stay safe too John.

carneuny
carneuny in reply to belindalore

Hi Belinda,Yep, indeed - pretty close to my views on China. I was delighted with Australia's performance against China - well the political elite in China recently. This resulted in a stand off and China deciding to not buy anymore coal from Australia.

This performance lasted several weeks but eventually China asked Australia to recommence supply. And maybe sooner or later other western nations will join forces and will adopt a raw material resource denial policy against China. No good for Britain though - but it could impose bans on buying specific Chinese products. I am disappointed that Britain has shown its soft underbelly with Hong Kong and Chinas denial of many basic freedoms to the Hong Kong Chinese.

When I lived in Australia in a career galaxy far away - I made several business trips to Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong. Britain has just dumped the people of Hong Kong. I love the people of the Far East generally though.

John

belindalore
belindalore in reply to carneuny

Countries will not fight against China. Out of fear and because they have become too dependent on China's cheap products. Very few products are manufactured in the USA anymore. It's a sad thing.

wilsond
wilsond in reply to carneuny

John

Just to comment on one aspect.

The Oxford vaccine has not been invented since March 2020. It has been researched and worked on for many years.

It was focussed on the coronavirus family,of which of course Covid 19 is a fully paid up member.

With the Advent of this strain,the final work was ramped up,with researchers working 14 hour days 7 days a week round the clock,in order to refine the vaccine precisely to combat Covid 19.

All the other following proceedures have been done correctly ,faster than the normal process only by 100% attention on this vaccine .

Hilly22
Hilly22 in reply to wilsond

Absolutely, well said. I think the clever scientists who’ve worked so hard on this deserve recognition. Personally I have 100% trust in the vaccine and it’s safety x

Hi John,I think you would be wise to research the points you have made-as much as one can in the fast-moving new situation- and I hope you continue Covid free- you are lucky to be in Cornwall where rates have been so low all year, possibly rising now?Take care, Rosemary

I hear you! If it's any consolation here in the UK with the economic uncertainty of Brexit and the rate of spread of the new strain of COVID it's frankly unnerving. All we can do is sit very tight and look after ourselves till things pan out a bit more. You're nearly through over there with your political troubles - hopefully things will improve once you get Biden in situ.

belindalore
belindalore in reply to Singwell

Ha. You don't know much about Biden. Trump may be mouthy but he's done more for this country than others have in a long time. The democrats were angry from day one when Trump won and did everything they could to trip him up during his term. Most of these democrats are more corrupt than they ever accused Trump of being. They were the ones who were saying in the beginning that the virus was nothing to worry about. Trump could only go by the information he received from our scientists. Even Fauci said in the beginning masks weren't necessary. Trump got on the drug companies to hurry a vaccine. So I'm not going to be happy with the democrats taking over. My parents were always democrats and I was for years. Democrats used to be for the working man. Now they are just a bunch of politicians who pass laws to benefit their friends and themselves. Sad thing is, some Republicans are just as bad. But I'd still rather have them in office than the democrats. People in this country have become too complacent with the government. And some are too naive about what really goes on in the government. It won't be good when old Joe takes over. Not at all.

Singwell
Singwell in reply to belindalore

Apologies for being political. I know it's a tough time over there for all. Wishing you stability

belindalore
belindalore in reply to Singwell

Oh no apologies needed, Singwell. It is what it is. The USA has been going downhill for a long time now. Politicians do not work for those who put them in office. They do whatever they can to enrich themselves at the expense of the citizens. They sneak around like the snakes they are. It's unbelievable the bills that get attached (and passed, worthless bills that take taxpayers money) to bills as important as those passed due to covid. Bills that are supposed to help the citizens. And yet they sneak bills in that send money to our enemies or give money to some outfit to do research on why pink shrimp are pink. Ridiculous. Why I think this country will soon go the way of the Roman Empire. When you are this corrupt, you won't last long. Take care of yourself. And never apologize for speaking your opinion. That is free speech. If you don't have that you have nothing. Look at what happens to those in China who try to speak freely. They disappear or end up in prison.

Singwell
Singwell in reply to belindalore

We have the same disease here sadly...power over leadership and care.

belindalore
belindalore in reply to Singwell

Excellent way of putting it. 👍

The evidence for the AZ vaccine is strong that efficacy keeps increasing up to 12 weeks (and probably beyond) after the first dose. For the Pfizer vaccine, apparently the 2nd dose is ineffective and has to be repeated if given within 19 days of the first dose, so, again, we appear to have increasing effectiveness with time. The first dose provides 90% protection.

So, do you give a 2nd dose to provide just 5% extra protection or do you give it to someone else to provide 90%? Despite the squeals from some GPs, I think it's a no-brainer.

I think the chief medics in the 4 countries of the UK have made a very brave but correct decision based on the advice of the MHRA which has all the data. We're basically on a war footing and we need to be nimble to defeat the virus. Hopefully this will also provide evidence to the rest of the world about how to administer the vaccines most effectively.

belindalore
belindalore in reply to MarkS

Funny what I've heard over here in the USA is that the first dose is minimal in protection. Too much disinformation.

Dadog
Dadog in reply to belindalore

Absolutely. They all seem to want to ignore those that created, produced and tested it. This is a political decision in order to look as though they are protecting the number of people they promised to. So we double the number but only half treat them.

wilsond
wilsond in reply to belindalore

Mark is a Dr

I've concluded that cynicism is bad for my health and, having a relative and friend who are both avid conspiracy theorists, I can see that their mindset leads them nowhere useful and to zero contentedness.

I feel sure that the doctors and scientists involved with this pandemic are doing their best to find a way forwards given the limited information and experiences they have. Many are working long hours while struggling with staff and equipment shortages caused by this scourge. I feel grateful that we have such people and systems available to us to help us through this.

As for the government, I can believe that they are trying to find ways to keep demand down for the impoverished and understaffed NHS that they have created, while keeping the economy moving along.

Whether either could be doing a better job, well, they are all human, and thus fallible and limited. It is outside of my ability to know but it is my nature to trust science and to distrust politicians.

Steve

dedeottie
dedeottie in reply to Ppiman

I don’t trust politicians and I am totally disgusted with the media in general BUT I have to put my trust in something so that will be the scientists who have achieved amazing results with the vaccines. After all their hard work I do not believe they would give their support to a delay in the second dose unless they believed it to be the best policy. I will be having my first dose as soon as I am called. At the very least, that dose will help to relieve some of my anxiety and if I have to wait 3 months for the full protection then so be it. What is another 3 months in the grand scheme of things? X

Ppiman
Ppiman in reply to dedeottie

Well said, indeed.

Steve

Our doctors are evidently going to stand up for those of us who have had the the first vaccination that is a milder one to prime our immune response before the second one mobilises the cells to respond more strongly.

dailymail.co.uk/news/articl...

Sadly trust has been severely dented and we have had so many about turns. Government has chopped and changed their direction of travel and perhaps that is to be expected when dealing with a pandemic. The media have piled on pressure, information and misinformation. People are scared. Well they are either scared or totally unwilling to comply with rules and it’s the later who are causing the problems.

In my opinion I would prefer a full lockdown until the vaccination programme is rolled out. Yes it will cause more financial strife but health of the nation is paramount, without health no wealth can be created surely. Trouble is people aren’t complying within their allocated tiers. The numbers of people carrying on as normal is incredible. Travelling here there and everywhere with no regard to how their behaviour is impacting on others. Selfishness personified.

I would love to go to my Devon holiday home but haven’t been for months, but here we are with selfish people having Christmas wherever they fancy be it Devon, Cornwall or Wales or wherever else takes their fancy and what’s done about it re fines, very little I suspect.

Having arrhythmias, gastric issues and being of a certain age I don’t intend to put myself at further risk so I continue with my self imposed lockdown. Missing my lovely grandchildren desperately, my lovely seaside home etc etc. Yes I am fed up but so be it.

Stay safe friends.

belindalore
belindalore in reply to meadfoot

👍 Stay safe as well.

cicek
cicek in reply to meadfoot

I too am in favour of total lockdown. Listening the PM on the Andrew Mar show this morning I don't think it will be long before he goes down that route. (hopefully). As far a she vaccination goes, I am in my 70's so will have to wait a long time. My husband is 81 with a lung condition and has heard nothing yet so we too are imposing our own lockdown. We certainly don't want to succumb now after 9 months of avoiding this dreadful thing.Stay safe,

So so many going on about the untried/unknown vaccines that are supposed to save/protect us, to then see New Zealand & Vietnam protect their populations without the need of any vaccines at all - no small wonder that people are cynical.

Hilly22
Hilly22 in reply to john6

I don’t know much about Vietnam but have followed the kiwis every step of the way. The reason for their success is strong leadership and good compliance to the rules. They saw it coming and they learnt. Hard and fast lockdown, immediate closure of their borders and very strict quarantine rules. The only cases they’re getting now are coming in from outside, so are well-contained. My daughter describes their normal life there, and I’m so pleased for them, but incredibly sad and frustrated that things could’ve been the same here if only we’d acted similarly ... so many opportunities missed 😢.

But what’s happened has happened, we’ve gone way past that point, a sad fact that leaves us little choice but to vaccinate like crazy. I just hope that the majority can see that.

Think I’d better stop there as I have a rumbling volcano of anger, sadness and disappointment inside me that’s threatening to erupt.

Stay safe and well my friend 😊

john6
john6 in reply to Hilly22

Hi Hilly, I'm a bit of a news buff, that is not to say that I see all and everything but yes I have taken note of New Zealand from day one. Other countries had C19 months before us, as such we had a glimpse into the future and failed very badly from day one to learn from others.

Then we have the debacle of the 4 home nations trying to score points over each other by doing their own thing. That alone told me we are [not] all in this together. Which leaves me thinking; If God forbid we ever had to go to war, could the other home nations duck out as they are all individually responsible for the health of the devolved nations, after all, war is not good for one's health - what a crazy situation.

Tbh I see this still C19 being with us next winter and probably many after that. The fact that a high percentage of people who will not take it up (I've read up to 30% may not), on top of that you will have the failures of efficacy and probably the failure of vaccines in general as you do with the flu vaccine. The aforementioned alone will see this with us just like the common cold/flu etc probably for the rest of our lives, no doubt big Pharma (Pfizer have a dreadful reputation) will make sure that the fear factor is constantly published. It ain't going away anytime soon - that is for sure.

Hilly22
Hilly22 in reply to john6

I think you’re probably right John, I don’t think this vicious virus will be eliminated for decades or more. Only thing we can do is protect ourselves individually with the vaccine and hope it has the high success rate expected.

One important thing to remember is that those few people in the AstraZeneca trials who got the vaccine and still caught C19, didn’t get seriously ill and no one died. I’ll accept a few days of uncomplicated Covid if it avoids the alternative 😱

Auriculaire
Auriculaire in reply to john6

Flu vaccines have been overhyped for yonks especially for older people who are urged / bullied into getting them the most. Some years they hardly work at all. The best way of avoiding microbes in general is to "cultivate the terrain". There are theories in infectious illness which state that it is the terrain ie the state of the host's body which determines whether one becomes ill or not when exposed to microbes. No doubt there is a genetic element to this but people who smoke, drink to excess, take no exercise , get little sunshine and fresh air and eat processed food all the time will not have a healthy terrain. The government could have mitigated this pandemic greatly by encouraging people to improve their immune systems by healthier living and use certain supplements which help the immune system but they chose to bet all on a vaccine. How many people have died because their vit D was rock bottom? It makes my blood boil to see that there are studies from all over the world showing that those with rock bottom vit D are more likely to end up in ICU and die and this is still being ignored when supplementation is safe and cheap. Unlike crap like Remdesivir which has now been shown to be useless and damages people's kidneys but got ordered in huge quantities by governments all over the world.

belindalore
belindalore in reply to john6

Don't feel too bad John. The USA is even worse. 🙄

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to john6

Can you explain? My understanding is that the isolated themselves which is how they escaped the worst of the disease. Very different demographics, geography & cultures.

john6
john6 in reply to CDreamer

Absolutely, I'm not disputing what you say. However, the one thing that we all have in common is that we are all human! In both countries they have proven that the virus is controllable without the need of vaccines. Tbh, at times I think that it is us who are a third world country.

Dictatorship

Speaking personally, I don’t object to 12 weeks but what I do object to is mixing the vaccines. Having talked to my stepson, microbiologist & virologist, I would refuse 2nd vaccine if it was from different source. He went through the science with me & I can see how disturbed many scientists worldwide are about how the UK propose to mix & match vaccines. That’s a NO from me! Article in the NY Times was the first most of us heard of this - it was so buried in the detail!

The Doctor’s Association have strongly opposed the changes at very short notice #CovidVaccine with a very coherent letter to Matt Hancock.

Whilst some GP practices may be run by the NHS, most are not so are independant, they fought very hard over many years to remain independent. They contract to deliver services to NHS. I await to see what our practice intends to do. They have gone against the grain before now.

As OH is due his 2nd jab on Tuesday, unless we here to the contrary, he will present himself accordingly. He will check which vaccine to be administered before consenting to be vaccinated. The GPs contracted with the patients so are in the worst possible situation - dammed if they do or don’t.

I have no safety issues with any of the vaccines & it is VITAL that as many people as possible take the jab worldwide ASAP - but please people - from the same source!

Stay well, stay safe.

PS - I have had 10 of my family contract COVID - 7 recovered & 3 still quite ill. If I or my husband caught it - we would be unlikely to survive. This is a serious, very intelligent virus & with 70k + people who have died & many more living with long term affects after recovery, the next 2-3 months will be the most difficult for everyone in every possible way.

You can’t change other people’s behaviours but you can be response able for your own. Please get vaccinated to protect yourself but also your loved ones.

belindalore
belindalore in reply to CDreamer

Yes. I also heard of mixing the vaccines. I still think all this chaos is because of disorganization. I'm hoping somehow it gets better. You too stay safe. I will pray for your loved ones who are still I'll to get better.

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to belindalore

Thanks Belinda - you stay safe.

john6
john6 in reply to CDreamer

I had the same thoughts re mixing the vaccines and also came across the NY Times getting rebuked, it has been requested that they put out the correct information. You have enough about you to ask "is this the same vaccine", there will be others who ask but will not see the label/phial, then there will be others who will not even think to.

As you have probably guessed by now, I am far from convinced.

P.S. 70k have not died of C19, it is 70k with C19 mentioned on a death certificate.

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to john6

I didn’t know the NYT were rebuked? Who by and why? Agreed about the death certificate stats - probably so many more deaths because of COVID & of people not going to hospital through fear & not being treated.

john6
john6 in reply to CDreamer

They were rebuked because they were claiming something on the lines of; Britain claimed it would not matter if you had the Pfizer vaccine and it was followed up by having the Oxford vaccine as the 2nd dose (maybe vice versa). The medical bods are saying that there is no way that the two should be mixed. So, if you see anyone walking around with 2 heads you'll know why😂.

BBC News - Coronavirus: BMJ urges NYT to correct vaccine 'mixing' article

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55519042

The reason I said it is [not] 70k deaths is because (now here's one for you), they issued new instructions for the issuing of death certificates to include C19, which quite frankly is unique as the instructions despite other diseases have been there for decades. The instructions are also ambiguous hence the reason they took 6/7000 off of the death numbers.

For example; a well known entertainer was waiting for a Heart Transplant, in effect he was seriously ill and dying. The person concerned caught C19 which in effect pushed him over the edge. Whilst it did [not] actually kill him, it was mentioned on his death certificate thus recording it as a C19 death stat. Many people including many of the London bus drivers had underlying health issues when they died, they should not imo as such have been included. Again my opinion, it is why when we look at the lower death rates in other countries and say how can that be - it is down to the way of recording.

The claim that the (apparent) excess deaths in this country is also pretty thin. They take stats from 5 years ago when the country had 2/4 million less people and the population was 5 yrs younger ie a generation coming through that were not killed through wars. On both counts it stands to reason that the deaths are going to be higher in 2020 ie some of the 2/4 million will die and more of the older generation will fall off of their perch for many years to come - it will increase year on year despite C19.

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to john6

Somewhat questionable of the BBC after this bbc.co.uk/news/health-55228415

john6
john6 in reply to CDreamer

I can understand a yes if they were of the same make up from different companies, a question we often get on here re our problems. To get [say] a yes from Pfizer & OxfordZ is going to be very questionable, as the make ups are entirely different.

Money is involved, so it should be alright 🙄

Oh no, are we to be the guinea pigs!!!

Well I will be asking which vaccine is being offered and not accepting 2 different ones. The link was from the beginning of Dec & a lot had changed since then. Check everything - but we know that don’t we.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire in reply to CDreamer

To say nothing of people who had terminal cancer but had a positive covid test so were counted as covid deaths. Apparently some people have had to be taken out of the death stats in America because they died in an RTA or of gunshot wounds!

Yes. Many many deaths in the USA have been reported as covid caused. I've read many times that the government is giving money to the hospitals for treating covid patients so to keep that money coming they report non covid deaths as covid. Might as well be a horror movie. The jerk of a mayor of New York City was out in Times Square dancing with his wife New Year Eve. Our politicians tell us to stay home but they do the opposite. Cuomo, the governor of New York State, was supposed to have received an award for handling the virus so well. I know this country has gone nuts when I heard that. He's the one responsible for many nursing home patients dying in his state because he told the nursing homes to take back in patients who'd been sent to the hospitals with covid. And they were sent back to the nursing homes, none of which were equipped to deal with the virus, and in turn infected everyone else. Including staff members. And he receives an award? He should have gotten an award for being a disciple of the devil 😈. He's also a Democrat and the Democrats will be in the White House. Ugh. Things will really be a mess.If I were a wealthy person, I'd find somewhere away from civilization. Because the world has gone mad. 🙄

But in the meantime you take care.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire in reply to CDreamer

I cannot see how you are protecting anybody else by getting vaccinated until there is evidence that the vaccines stop transmission which is so far not the case. You are only protecting yourself from getting a serious case.

Buffafly
Buffafly in reply to CDreamer

My husband is 85 but all we have had is texts saying ‘Don’t call us, we’ll call you’. Staying glued to the phone!

cicek
cicek in reply to Buffafly

Same here. I think older people are getting fidgety now because we are hearing of so many like people that are getting the vaccine. Whilst we are happy to wait, it's very worrying why some areas are getting it more quickly. Of course people are going to start ringing their doctors it's a natural thing to want to do.

The fuss on twitter at the moment is about people volunteering to be vaccinators and getting rejected because they haven't done the required training courses, such as preventing radicalisation of terrorists.

They've had months to organise this, and yet they wait until there's are vaccines on the shelf.

twitter.com/theJeremyVine/s...

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to ectopic1

So do I laugh 😂 or 😭?

ectopic1
ectopic1 in reply to CDreamer

I suppose they've cut & paste the list from somewhere for convenience, but the real issue is why they weren't recruiting months ago.

This Government have left most things to the last minute. Lockdowns, a fair way to grade exams, test & trace etc. They knew this vaccine was on the way but no, sod it, let the politicians go on holiday while the country goes to pot.

So far, this world-beating bunch of imbeciles have made a hash of PPE, ventilators, and test & trace, I'm not optimistic that vaccination is going to be any different.

I think that's why they have come out with the bright idea that they don't need to follow the scientists guidelines on giving their vaccines. They don't have enough staff. Again, this vaccine was being researched months ago. Why not start to recruit then so that when the time comes everything is ready? Makes sense to me but then I am not an MP.

Call me an old cynic, but it's very conspicuous to me how they keep talking about the number of doses procured, rather than the number that have found their way into people's arms.

ectopic1
ectopic1 in reply to ectopic1

So this morning we hear that pharmacists are ready and able to do a million a week, but the government won't let them. You just couldn't make it up.

The first dose gives 90% cover, in the first 2 weeks, including Christmas we administered almost one million doses, it's unfortunate but it's better to get 2 million 90% covered than one million without cover. We are hoping to have administered the vaccines to most needy by April. We have over 100 million vaccines ordered but of course we have to wait for manufacture. I do hope things get sorted in the U.S. and the world kicks this covid out soon

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to Denise-

If you are talking about the Pfitzer vaccine then my understanding is that the figure was 50-70% on first jab, which agreed is better than nothing, and 90% after the second - tested after 3 weeks.

So many known, unknowns and who knows how many unknown, unknowns. People find it difficult to live with unknowns & uncertaintys.

Organisation is of course key to success. I have been extremely impressed at our local level but that seems to be very patchy in the UK.

belindalore
belindalore in reply to Denise-

What I have heard is the 1st dose offers some protection. You have to get both doses to achieve 90% or better protection. I'm in the USA. Seems the UK hears one thing and the USA another. The media needs to butt out and someone who actually knows what's what needs to stand up and tell everyone the truth. So frustrating. I agree. Let's hope the USA gets better ( that's a big hope right now) and the whole world gets better. Stay safe and well.🙏

Hi! From what I’ve read and seen in the news, your second dose (if given no later than 12 weeks after your first) will give you very high protection and the first dose has already given you most of the protection against the virus! (That’s what had been said in England over the last few days anyway).PS Politicians have always been hypocrites haven’t they?!

I hear the opposite. 😞 In the USA. Plus you need both doses to reach the maximum protection. Which is it??? So frustrating to hear the contradictions all the time. No wonder people are apprehensive. And yes, politicians are hypocrites and👿. Take care.

Put the vaccine into beer and open all pubs.By next Thursday all of England would be vaccinated. Simples.

Ianc2
Ianc2 in reply to Palpman

Oh dear, oh dear. Hilarious! Do you own shares?

If you want to read informed but not interfered with comment try the independent SAGE group..... youtube.com/watch?v=-kIcCUY...

belindalore
belindalore in reply to emjay18

The same thing is happening in the USA as in the UK. As in the video, I agree there needs to be better communication here and better organization and volunteers would certainly be a plus. I haven't heard much about volunteers though. I can see it being a big help. A huge help. Here in the USA so many more cases because people ignore the consequences of having parties and inviting non family members into their homes. Now with the new variant it will only be worse. Mankind is his worst enemy.Thanks for sharing the video. Take care.

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to emjay18

Very sobering summary by Sir David King. Thanks for posting.

We're in isolation so not really bothered about being vaccinated as yet. Have to say, I'd much rather have it done properly with 2 jabs spaced as intended. So someone else can have mine for now.

Your politicians sound just like ours! It’s utter chaos and incompetence plus corruption. Of course this is a rather difficult situation for any government but some organisation and transparency would go a long way.

The one thing that worries me about this vaccine everyone appears to want injecting is the how safe it is, mostly because the rush to get it out out there, strange as well that the companies creating the the stuff all found this cure miraculously within a few weeks of each other ?? all of them at it for months on end, then like a row of buses all turn up together !! ok , it might be a coincidence ! although one would not want to miss the financial bonanza by being late lol, The government ( UK) as given immunity to at least one company from being sued, although from my search on the matter ( uk gov site ) it does give the right to sue if one loses a limb, this states " Could sue" , there again I "could " get knocked down by a bus tomorrow, so personally Not reassuring, so I will think first before accepting inept politicians advice !-

MarkS
MarkS in reply to colo60

Colo60, safety is at the forefront of all vaccine trials. Tens of thousands of people have been injected in the trials, no one has died and there have been minimal side effects. What we know is that if you don't get the vaccine then your chances of dying or being seriously ill are hundreds of times higher. The vaccines were approved by scientists not politicians.The vaccines have had to go through a development and testing stage which, whilst thorough, has been compressed s much as possible. So it's no surprise that 3 come along within weeks of each other. Also Astra Zeneca, unlike the American companies, is not making money out of its jab.

john6
john6 in reply to MarkS

Do not be taken in by "Companies are not making money or profit etc"! It is easy to show no profit or for that matter a loss - just award £million salaries marginally bigger than what would have been a profit, hey ho you have a loss. They will not be doing it for love, there is money (big money) involved somewhere down the line.

belindalore
belindalore in reply to john6

I just saw an article that states the BILLIONS of dollars that drug companies make. I think it was in GreenMed.com. I really need to write some things down. But there wasn't one drug company that didn't make billions. Every year. 🙄

john6
john6 in reply to belindalore

An amazing coincidence as to how [all] of the Pharma companies have hit a result around about the same time🙄

belindalore
belindalore in reply to john6

Yes. I noticed that too. If all the meds pharmas create are so safe why is there the "7 year post drug trials". Where the pharmas watch for any other side effects that didn't come about during their trials. Also when you see the lawsuits against the drug companies start. When any worse side effects pop up that do irreparable harm to people. I was talking to a friend earlier and we were discussing the fact that these drug companies are not going to test a new drug against every existing drug or supplement out there. It would take too much time and MONEY. So THEY take chances with people's lives. 😒

colo60
colo60 in reply to MarkS

Appreciate the the opinion MarkS, but I am certainly unconvinced by the safety regarding the testing time etc', it's been rushed through in my personal opinion, it's not licensed and when a government gives any form of immunity to a company from being sued puts myself and logical thinking into why ? if it's safe as they state, why apply that safety net for the manufacturer ? I lived through the thalidomide era when people had simply went along with what they were told by experts, I stress, these are my own personal thoughts regarding myself and my own research into matters, I advise people to act according to their own personal opinions of what they decide, personal choice !

jeanjeannie50
jeanjeannie50 in reply to colo60

I've read that scientists have been working on covid vaccines for years. The ones they already had just needed to be altered slightly from what they contained to make them suitable for covid19.

colo60
colo60 in reply to jeanjeannie50

Thank you for the info jeanjeannie, I guess that means similar to say, Sars some 16 yrs back, what I cannot understand is how a cure can be manufactured BUT they still don't know the cause, all I read from information is speculation ie; the wet animal market ( man eats bat lol ) Wuhan, or a lab leak ? in a nutshell , they've found a cure to something they don't know the cause of ?? baffling all this science, but remarkable ! - I am still trying to find why the new vaccine is not licensed if it is safe ?? puzzling me this one !

belindalore
belindalore in reply to colo60

Don't forget. The pharma companies are not liable if something bad happens to you from any of the vaccines. There's a lot of craziness out there. I even read that President elect Biden was administered a vaccine but the cap wasn't taken off the syringe. 😂 And also that some of our other politicians were given doses of vitamin D. 😂 Of course if you knew our politicians, I wouldn't be hesitant to believe that happened. 🤔 Take care.

colo60
colo60 in reply to belindalore

Thank you, You are USA I believe, So all vaccine companies have immunity with regard to being liable for any health problems caused by their vaccine's ? is that in the US ? or by governments like ours( UK) is in respect to Covid ? , I did not know that applied in the UK to all vaccines ? now is that not reassuring : ( for my part i'm certainly no expert, but I do ask questions, I lived through the Thalidomide scandal years back ( folks got paid out by the way, something tells me it was taxpayers money ) I guess when you're a multi billion dollar industry like big pharma you have governments, that are so desperate for your product in order to protect their own power base, then any deal can be struck, even immunity to being sued ? - by the way, our gov' built makeshift hospitals ( Nightingale's ) for hospital overspill at a cost of millions, they are redundant now because not enough staff for them, a lot of thought went into that one lol, so why should I believe what these incompetent politicians tell me ! - look after yourself n keep safe, i've ended my opinion !

belindalore
belindalore in reply to colo60

I don't know if the liability issue with the drug companies pertains to the UK also or not. I think it is supposed to end in 2024. What will happen then I don't know. I'm betting politics plays a part in it like most everything else. So it seems. Some places here in the USA where the cases have surged have had to put up make shift tents of some sort to treat patients. And put patients in the hallways of some hospitals. And shove extra beds into rooms. Terrible. Just hoping it all ends soon somehow. You take care also.

Yes it was reported here in the USA that I believe Moderna had one "on the shelf" and just had to tweak it somehow.

belindalore
belindalore in reply to MarkS

Astra Zeneca also goofed up part of their drug trial.

The scientists who have performed a miracle by producing this vaccine have given hope to so many of us hoping to throw off the shackles of Covid-19. If they say a certain timescale is to be observed between doses then that is what they mean. Why do the Government and their advisors think they know better? Stop tinkering about with this country's health and a possible way out of this rotten pandemic and follow the rules for administering these vaccines. Just get on with it!!!

It's been reported in the USA here that there are lots of vials of vaccine waiting to be used. What's the hold up? 🙄

The scientists who have performed a miracle by producing this vaccine have given hope to so many of us hoping to throw off the shackles of Covid-19.

This is a interesting read on the Scientist who gave up a lot because she believed in her research. Dr. Katalin Karikó who should get the Nobel Prize .

The coronavirus vaccines wouldn’t be possible without advancements developed at the University of Pennsylvania, which has been touting its contribution in news releases and TV ads. But it turns out the school wasn’t very supportive of the scientist who led the charge.

Former Penn researcher Dr. Katalin Karikó’s dedication to the promise of using messenger RNA (mRNA) in medicine paved the way for the vaccines now giving society hope.

As Karikó worked for decades toward adapting mRNA to bring out its therapeutic qualities, her efforts were repeatedly dismissed by the university, she has said. When she was unable to find funding, Penn demoted her, taking her off the track to full professorship.

Despite the university’s original attitude toward Karikó’s research, it holds the patent on the tech used in the COVID-19 vaccines.

billypenn.com/2020/12/29/un...

UPDATE - Arrived at vaccination centre this morning to drop off OH to get his 2nd Pfitzer jab. All went to plan, in and out within 20 mins.

Our local centre was extremely well organised and very pleased that at least one of us has it on board. There has been a small reaction so now resting for the remainder of the day.

There has been no vaccines sitting on any shelves in our area - 900/day being vaccinated.

AZ vaccine with the new protocols in place starts when it arrives, which I understand, will be on Friday.

belindalore
belindalore in reply to CDreamer

Just saw this morning people who have registered in some areas of Florida where I live, now will have to wait weeks to get an actual appointment to get a vaccine. The governor of Florida was shown on TV this morning saying there's over 1 million doses of the vaccine in the state. But they aren't being given because of poor organization. At least that's what I'm seeing. But you know it seems like that's always the case. Something monumental happens and no one can get organized. In Daytona Beach, 20 minutes from me on the Atlantic Ocean, they were set up at the big race track there and had people come first come first serve. People drove there and waited in line hours before the time to start. That lasted a couple days. They only vaccinated a few hundred if that. Now they have to wait for more vaccine and then people will have to start making appointments to go there. In one area of Florida where I said people had registered? It was around 50,000 people. They have to wait probably weeks for an appointment and no one else can register in the meantime. !!??!!! There was an article in the news recently that stated at the rate we're going in the USA it'd be 10 years before everyone got vaccinated. I'm not so sure that's not a true statement. Then there was the pharmacist who purposely destroyed the 500 doses in Wisconsin. Did you ever see the old TV show over there we had called the "Twilight Zone". It was about eerie, strange things that would happen. Well I think sometimes I feel like it's a creepy episode of that old show the way things are over here. And I give the people involved no excuses. They knew that the vaccines would be coming. Here's a sad thing. The virus is so bad in the state of California (the governor there and many people who live there have not done well trying to be safe) the emergency teams who man the ambulances have been told not to bring a person to a hospital if it doesn't look that they will survive. Because there is a shortage of oxygen and these patients need oxygen from the get go. Hard to believe that this is happening in this day and age. Heartbreaking. I bet there will eventually be lawsuits filed by any family members who lose a loved one denied a trip to a hospital.

It's at least good to hear things are working out a little better for you all. But don't forget, keep following the guidelines even after you get your vaccines. That's what people are told over here. And keep up hope. Take care.

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to belindalore

That’s really sad to hear. I do hope things improve for you soon. Virtual hug ((()))

PS - just watching CNN new reporting exactly what you outlined. You take care & stay safe.

belindalore
belindalore in reply to CDreamer

Well since you posted your last answer to me I watched our local news and things are starting to get better. More shipments of vaccines starting to be delivered around to different places. The city I live in may be able to start giving the vaccines out next week. The county south of the one I live in has been giving the vaccine to the elderly who live in aged communities. I also heard the governor of Florida threaten hospitals who weren't doing a good job of administering the vaccines would have their services moved to ones doing a better job. So thanks things are looking up for all who want to get their shots. People just have to remember that it's not a cure and those that get the shots can't all of sudden stop following the guidelines. That's been stressed over here because they don't know that it stops transmission even though one gets the vaccine. There's always a possibility the vaccine may not take in some people. It happens. I'm thinking people will let their guard down once they get their shots and they just can't do that. It may be a long time before anything gets back to where people can throw away their masks. 😞 So keep hoping.

It really concerns me that some places administering the vaccines think it's okay to extend the time between doses. I've just watched the news this morning and the USA FDA says the original dosing should be followed. They said there is no scientific proof that giving the doses past the original dosing times will still be effective. They were not tested to see if giving the 2nd dose 3 months later will keep them effective. I hope none of you have to wait longer than the 21-28 days. Stay safe and well.

colo60
colo60 in reply to belindalore

Hi, Do you not think that this is for the governments sake regarding their stats and figures , by prolonging the 2nd dose they can administer 1st time injections to far more people, ( cute ! ) this way the figures look far better when letting out news to the media, eg;- " we have now administered injections to 10 million people " whereby it would really have been, say approx 5million ( does not sound as good lol ) but they've been able to double the figure by using other peoples 2nd dose, prolonging the 2nd dose enable's this surely ? - facts and stats, the governments lean to : )

belindalore
belindalore in reply to colo60

I'm beginning to think no one's lives matter anymore. When I look at what some of these crazy politicians are doing during this pandemic, I really do wonder..... Stay safe and well colo60.

I hope I have not offended anyone by posting about the vaccines. I believe that this subject is a concern for those who have Afib. It's something else that people are concerned about. How will the vaccines affect some with Afib. Anything like this is concern. No different than when one is concerned about having another ailment, like cancer or arthritis or something else, along with the Afib. One wants to know what can affect the Afib. Have a safe day everyone.

colo60
colo60 in reply to belindalore

Certainly not offended here ! debate and opinion matter in a Democracy !!!

belindalore
belindalore in reply to colo60

Thank you colo60. It seems I am accused bringing up things that do not pertain to Afib. But these vaccines do pertain to Afib. In a big way. I think everything affects Afib. Just my feeling. And free speech. 😌

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