Vaccine: It is Monday. Tomorrow, the UK will... - AF Association

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Vaccine

belindalore
belindalore

It is Monday. Tomorrow, the UK will be starting to give the vaccine. Here in the USA, no idea when it will start. Health workers, first responders (law enforcement, firefighters, etc), nursing home residents, teachers are a few who will have the vaccine first. Healthy people may not receive the vaccine for months. Just read that. I have not yet decided to get one as my immune system is so taxed and I am very underweight. I had the 2nd pneumonia shot ( here we oldsters get two a year apart, guess the 2nd one covers extra strains) and it made me ill. So I will see. But wishing you all in the UK and other countries the best. Those of you who get the vaccine. Some of you may not for legitimate reasons. And that's okay. Take care and continue to be safe and well.

58 Replies

I'm saying nothing 😇

belindalore
belindalore in reply to john6

That's entirely your right😊. I still wish you the best John and to be safe.

Canada is supposed to receive its first 300,00 doses this month (before end of year is what news articles say). And they are designated for residents and staff in long-term care homes. I have not yet had a chance to ask any of my doctors their opinion about when they think the vaccine would be available to people like me or whether they think it will even be of much use for people with compromised/suppressed immune function. (I have CLL.)

My stepson is a biochemist who has been keeping us updated about the virus and he said something very interesting yesterday and that was that the mRNA vaccines are extremely fragile - hence needing to be kept at very low temperature until just prior to use - and because they are messenger vaccines, break down in the body very, very quickly so they cannot compromise a stressed immune system. As you may remember, I am immune suppressed and cannot have any live vaccine so for me the AstraZenica is a no thank you but I’d snatch your hand off for an mRNA.

So the AZ vaccine is live? I think Canada is getting 300,000 (to start) of the Pfizer vaccine... which is mRNA.

Correct. It’s a modified virus taken from apes. Evidently it is better tolerated by older people

The Oxford–AstraZeneca vaccine is made from a cold-causing adenovirus that was isolated from the stool of chimpanzees and modified so that it no longer replicates in cells.

nature.com/articles/d41586-...

Maggimunro
Maggimunro in reply to CDreamer

A really thought provoking article, so thanks for posting the link.

Mike11
Mike11 in reply to PlanetaryKim

It cannot replicate so it isn't in biological terms 'alive'.

There is however still the question of whether any vaccine will be of much use for people with suppressed immune system. It could give false sense of security, if our bodies are not actually able to mount an antibody defense but we think we are protected because we got vaccinated. I will probably do it. I am just not convinced it's the slam-dunk fix everyone thinks it is.

Interesting one that one. I attended a Webinar recently led by Prof Tim Spectre of Imperial who has been leading a huge study via a Zoe app on COVID and lots of questions arose about that one and although he was incredibly cautious about the data, contra to expectations, he indicated that actually people with autoimmune conditions tended to do much better than others if they caught COVID. They have no idea why at this stage and cautioned about reading too much into it. Rather surprised me, but sort of made sense at the same time, after I had thought about it.

irene75359
irene75359 in reply to CDreamer

That's really interesting CDreamer. My brother-in-law has lupus nephritis so the same would apply to him, He has been virtually house-bound since March. But apparently he (and you) are about 6th down the list for any vaccine 😔.

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to irene75359

Yep, I’m in the 4th cohort, hubbie in 2nd as he is 80+

belindalore
belindalore in reply to CDreamer

There were some problems with the AZ vaccine. Here in the USA it isn't known yet if it will be used. So much up in the air over here. 😒 I saw on the news here that the one that has to be kept at sub freezing also has to be used within 5 minutes after taking it out of the "freezer" . That's going to be tricky. Just hoping somehow it all works out okay.

Bambi65
Bambi65 in reply to CDreamer

im going to be watching this also. Very hesitant about any chemical being put in my body.. Ill most likely pass on it for a while.

PlanetaryKim
PlanetaryKim in reply to Bambi65

That's my thinking too -- pass on it for a while and see how it plays out in real world use on people... whether vaccinated people can still contract and/or transmit covid (doctors are cautioning that they can and will), whether the vaccine prevents people who have had covid and cleared it from getting re-infected, whether the antibodies produced as result of vaccine last more than a few months, whether a person like me with almost no B-cell lymphocytes (due to CLL treatment) can even produce sufficient antibodies in response to vaccine for it to be meaningful.... I don't imagine I will be one of the first to be offered the vaccine, since it will be in short supply initially in Canada. So I will have some time to study the results in the world.

solarjdo69
solarjdo69 in reply to Bambi65

Bambi - I'm with you. No way will I put that foreign substance in my body. There are some prominent virologists, some who were in the employment to discover biological warfare agents that say that this rDNA method may cause some unforeseen and irreversible effects on the body. One of them is it may compromise your immune system, the other is that 60-70% of women may become sterile, and be unable to conceive. If true, this smacks of population control.

On my personal front, I have had no vaccines since 1976 when I was still in colleg. Somehow I've survived with no FLU (fool) shots.

Prestigious VACCINE Journal: Flu Vaccine Increases Coronavirus Infection Risk 36%

tinyurl.com/y5nmxrgr (url was 421 characters long from greenmedinfo.com

First, here’s what the prestigious, top-tier medical journal, the British Medical Journal said about the results of this study: “Although this was a small trial, the intensive care unit (ICU) results are so dramatic that they are statistically highly significant.”

SO HERE'S THE STUDY...

Researchers randomly assigned 76 people with moderate to severe C19 into the vaccine group (50 patients) or no-vaccine (26 patients) group on the day they entered the hospital.

RESULTS…

* NO VACCINE GROUP: 13 out of 26 patients (50%) were admitted to intensive care unit (ICU), and two died in the end.

* VACCINE GROUP: Only 1 person out of 50 (just 2%!) required ICU admission, and NOT ONE PERSON died!

This means that the vaccine led to a mind-blowing 93% reduction in odds of ICU admission!

Amazing, right? Except it wasn't a vaccine, it was Vitamin "D."

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

Consider b4 you potentially poison yourself.

Thanks Belindalore. I'm in the UK, aged 70, so while definitely an oldie, there's a good number in the queue ahead of me. It's unlikely we will get the offer this side of the New Year and perhaps much later. We are hoping that the Oxford vaccine becomes available before too long as it will be so much easier and quicker to distribute than the Pfizer vaccine which, as you know, requires such low, low temperatures for storage. Not that I would turn my nose up at a dose of Pfizer, whenever it was offered! A poll yesterday suggested that around 18% of Brits would not take the vaccine, either for good reasons like yours or sadly for many of them, just plain stupidity. Anyway, good luck with your own progress.😀

Unfortunately we are not near any of the ‘hub’ hospitals from which it is being distributed from so we await to hear where we will be in the queue. I think the NY, even though my husband will be 87 in Jan.

Hope you hear very soon and that the efficacy lives up to the promise. I don’t think the science has been communicated very well to the general public. I think it’s important to understand how the different vaccines work so people may choose which may be more suitable for which vaccine.

LaceyLady
LaceyLady in reply to CDreamer

Question is, will you be able to choose which one you want???

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to LaceyLady

No news on that so far. I rather doubt it unless there is a very good individual reason such as previous known severe allergy eg: my husband nearly died from anti-venom after snake bite - because he was allergic to horse serum which in those days what was used. Think we have moved on a bit now.

LaceyLady
LaceyLady in reply to CDreamer

Answers most likely you just get what they’ve got, rather like all the drugs

Just one add on - just because you have had the vaccine will not mean you be protected from catching COVID so it’s really important to continue to maintain strictly hygiene and keep socially distanced until this thing fades away. It will take 6-8 weeks after vaccine for protection to be most effective so we must not think that vaccine will take away the risks. We still have winter to get through.

1 in 10 people do not create antibodies to the virus after vaccine but without knowing whether or not you have antibodies, you will still be at risk. Antibody tests are not readily available, cost and not totally reliable either so be safe, rather than sorry people.

Finvola
Finvola in reply to CDreamer

That's interesting CD, and hasn't been publicised enough - the vaccine is being reported much too positively for the reality I think.

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to Finvola

It’s well reported in the science literature but it’s what is reported elsewhere especially on social media which is worrying.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire in reply to Finvola

The vaccine was being reported in the media before it arrived as if it were the Holy Grail and would usher in a return to normality. There is a little rowing back from that but not nearly enough. Most people have no idea of how clinical trials are conducted or what an endpoint is and as far as I can see the media have failed to explain to the public that the endpoint of the clinical trials was not transmission but reduction of symptoms. They still have no data on transmission nor as one scientist admitted on Newsnight last night on whether there is a reduction in serious disease and death. This is presumably because the trial vounteers who have caught covid since being vaccinated have had only mild symptoms . Which they might have had without being vaccinated.But then if you don't enroll people with serious comorbidities in your trials in the first place ( who are at most risk from catching the virus) how are you going to get this data? I fear that with a wider roll out of the vaccine people will throw social distancing to the winds. And when it is explained to them that they still have to be careful, wear masks etc they will feel cheated.

Here in the USA it's been reiterated quite a bit that people will still need to follow the guidelines if they get the vaccine. That the vaccines do not stop one from still getting the virus. Like you said may be lessen the symptoms. And CDreamer said 1 in 10 may not develop antibodies. 😕Since there were problems with the Astrazeneca vaccine I'm sort of leery about any of them. And as I said in another post, they don't know if it will be used here. A lot of going back and forth about the vaccines over here. I've heard and read the vaccines do and don't have bad side effects. What's in them? A lot to think about. We never get the full story. You take care.

There is no way I would take the AstraZeneca vaccine. AZ were not at all transparent about the people who developed severe neurological disease earlier on in their trial. I am undecided about the messenger RNA ones .

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to belindalore

I am reassured that, at the very least, the mRNA vaccines will do no harm. Whether they will be affective or how affective only time will tell.

I don’t think I would be prepared to take the AZ vaccine for reasons given above, however, they are thought to be more affective in older people.

We just don’t know enough, yet.

Excellent points! I am concerned many people will let down their guard and their precautions once the vaccine arrives and they get vaccinated.

Probably won't make much more difference here in the USA. Record high cases here. Parties everywhere. Too many covididiots. FDA just approved the Pfizer vaccine here. Said anyone with serious allergies to be cautious getting it. I'm not sure I'll get it. If you don't know what's in it and you're not told if you ask, how are you supposed to know if you're allergic to any thing in it. Plus many of these vaccines contain things like mercury and formaldehyde. After the bad reaction I had to the pneumonia shot, I just may decide to wear a mask for the rest of my life. After all you can still get the virus after being vaccinated and still transmit it. Too many questions.

Two in U.K. Suffer Allergic Reaction to Pfizer’s Covid-19 Vaccine. Regulator says people with history of significant allergic reactions shouldn’t get the shot.

Wall Street Journal story:

wsj.com/articles/people-wit...

The problem may be allergic reaction to PEG - Polyethylene glycol, a petroleum-derivative compound that is made from ethylene glycol (ethane-1,2-diol), which is the main ingredient in antifreeze. PEG is found in the Covid mRNA vaccines (but also many other things!). Most people have anti-PEG antibodies due to prior exposure. Those with high levels of anti-PEG antibodies could have life-threatening allergic reactions to PEGylated vaccine such as the Covid vaccines. UK’s Medical and Health Products Regulatory Agency says vaccinations should only be carried out in facilities where resuscitation measures are available.

Oh my goodness! The USA jumped on that story almost as soon as it happened but nothing had been said, as far as I know, about what you just posted. Well, I just made up my mind about the vaccine.....and you can probably guess what that is. 😕👎

I certainly don't want to be first to get it. But am keeping an open mind. Am also very interested in the research being done (and somewhat suppressed) about repurposing existing drugs to effectively treat covid. I think in long run this may prove more beneficial and less problematic than vaccine.

There is very little money to be made in repurposing existing drugs to treat covid, so not a lot of focus being put on that by governments unfortunately. But of these drugs, ivermectin stands out as something that could really reduce covid symptoms and duration. It is currently used to treat worms and other parasites in humans, animals and fish. Yet it also appear to be a potent antiviral and able to prevent covid from penetrating cell membrane, so even if you contract covid there will not be much viral replication happening.

Here is a lengthy recent paper reviewing 20 different studies of ivermectin used for covid with good results. This paper is awaiting peer review and publication. covid19criticalcare.com/wp-...

That's interesting. I know that ivermectin is used to kill different parasites in animals. I give it to the feral cats I feed to kill any parasites they might get living outside. As we say there are too many unknowns about these vaccines. I don't trust the big pharmas telling us how safe they are. Someone asked if in the drug trials, were all different types of health problems involved. I'm doubting that. I'm standing back and watching. And the drug stores here like CVS and Walgreens will be allowed to give the vaccines as they do the others. I don't think that's a good idea. But then I'm just a citizen. What do I know...... 🙄 You take care.

First one given today in a care home to a 90year old lady. In Coventry ,a city in my county!My eldest son gets his soon as he is a care worker .

Very pleased

belindalore
belindalore in reply to wilsond

That was shown on the news here in the USA this morning. It was so sweet how wonderful she was treated. Hoping she does well. I think people over there age better than here in the USA☺. She looked great for 90.

I hope that eventually you get a vaccine that suits; in the meantime, stay safe!

I think we’re being used a guinea pigs.

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to LaceyLady

To some extent yes, but what’s the alternative? We never been in this situation before & I am reassured that all the procedures that need to have followed have been, in Europe at least. Staying in Lockdown forever isn’t an option. Having our health care system overwhelmed isn’t an option not to mention the economy.

This will only work when enough people develop antibodies to resist the virus so it had nowhere to and that will only happen when enough people take a vaccine.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire in reply to CDreamer

Antibody resistance is only one part of the immunity story. T cell and B cell immunity are longer lasting than antibodies. There is plenty in the scientific literature on covid about this. The problem is that they are a lot more difficult to measure than antibodies. Also the initial supposition that there was no prior immunity in the population to the virus has turned out to be false. Just as the disaster modelling that was based on this supposition. There is a lot of discussion about just how high the percentage of people needing to be infected to achieve herd immunity is . There are countries who have mounted effective test and trace systems who have not had to lockdown and whose economies have not been devastated- those who were affected by the original SARS virus and learned lessons from it. The failure of western democracies to learn such lessons is a political one not a scientific one. The vaccines are going to have to work a damn sight better than flu vaccines for there to be any return to normality.

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to Auriculaire

Absolutely. That’s exactly what was said in the webinar.

Mike11
Mike11 in reply to Auriculaire

I think as one American doctor said a few days ago, he is fighting two battles. One with coronavirus and one with stupidity. And at the moment he's losing both battles. For example we just ended the lockdown in the UK so at 7am the morning after people are queueing for two hours to get into shops selling non-essentials - clothes, furniture, etc. Surely nobody is that desperate to risk catching Covid just for a new sweater or trainers ?

belindalore
belindalore in reply to Mike11

I agree. Here in the states a lot of people have just started to ignore the virus. I follow the guidelines. Mask. Carry my hand sanitizer with me. Distance. It's not hard to do. The worst thing about the virus is it became a political game. That's stupid. At least where you are people are at least waiting to get in the stores. Over here they protest and then loot the stores and burn them.😒 You in the UK should be happy that your ancestors abdicated from the monarchy centuries ago. Look what's become of them. 🙄

Mike11
Mike11 in reply to belindalore

I thought we ahem, "asked" your ancestors to leave :-)

Auriculaire
Auriculaire in reply to Mike11

I don't understand it but then I don't like shopping and hate most shops. There's something about shops that tires me. Garden centres are the exception but they are outside. I have to confess that as soon as lockdown ends here I will be on the phone to our favourite local restaurant to book a table but the tables are really well spaced out. It annoys me that non essential shops and cinemas and theatres have reopened here in France but restaurants which are a far more essential part of French life are still closed - especially in the back of beyond where there is very little virus circulation and the restauranteurs have all made big efforts with mitigation. There is no way I would queue up to get into any shop!

Ah. I don't like to shop either. Always, even before the pandemic, I got in and out of the stores as fast as I could. Here most restaurateurs have gone to great lengths to make their businesses safe. Putting up plexiglass in between tables as well as spreading tables apart. And areas that could move outside. There will be a lot more, sadly, who will go out of business. Yet we have politicians who tell the citizens you must obey the guidelines and then they do the opposite. And then say they are sorry. Like that makes it okay. Not. I know that's one reason why people are just not following the guidelines here in the USA. If your governor of your state or congressman or congresswoman isn't why should the citizen. We elect these politicians to guide us AND hopefully protect us. And then when they don't follow "the law" it kind of makes a mockery of it all. "What a tangled web we (the politicians) weave."

You said it. Especially here in the USA. It became a political game. Still is. So it will probably never end here. I expect the airports do be crowded again for Xmas here like at Thanksgiving. There's a saying. "You can't fix stupid". That's the other epidemic here. 😪

paolina
paolina in reply to LaceyLady

Probably, and as someone living in Italy I can tell you we are very grateful to the British and are waiting patiently to see the results. 😁

Mike11
Mike11 in reply to paolina

Well it's obvious a lot of people in the UK want the vaccine ASAP. I've just received a text from my GP surgery saying NOT to phone them to try to arrange to have it, you will receive a letter when your place in the queue comes up. They've obviously been inundated with calls even though the hospital gives the jabs, not the surgery.

paolina
paolina in reply to Mike11

I was actually replying to someone, so your reply doesn't seem relevant. It's obvious some people really think this vaccine is going to solve the problem, while a lot of us are just waiting to see what the results will be.

Thank you Belinda. Today is an extraordinary one, not just for us, but for worldwide science. Feeling thankful 🙏🏼 🌎

belindalore
belindalore in reply to Hilly22

Yes it is. My hope is that all goes well with these vaccines.

Mike11
Mike11 in reply to belindalore

The first thing we are going to hear about is people having bad reactions to it and making a fuss about not being told and why is it so bad. So they don't want the second injection, and others who know then will refuse it.

Which is fine by me - moves me closer to the front of the queue :-)

I had my second pneumonia shot this year, three years after the first and it really knocked me for several days. No other vaccine has ever done that to me so I wouldn't draw too many conclusions on this problem.

I really want to thank you belindore for starting this thread and all who have contributed to it. I have learned and understood more from this thread in one evening than I have from days of backslapping and rejoicing via the news bulletins and other media outlets.

belindalore
belindalore in reply to Peddling

I just want everyone to be okay. We all need to have a heads up on what's going on with the vaccines. Will they be safe? Will they stop transmission? Who according to their health problems should or should not get one? I'm in the USA and not very trusting of the medical system here. When we're prescribed a pharmaceutical drug we aren't told everything about it. All the side effects and whatnot. Just want everyone to be safe. Astrazeneca had problems and screwed up the dosing during the trials. It's only 70% effective. And it was just reported on the news here yesterday that it will be approved. Because it will be a cheaper vaccine than the others. Ummm. That just told me a lot. That money and profit is in play. They messed up the trials. But that's okay cause it's cheap. I believe I'd pass on that one......🙄 Just everyone continue to be safe regardless whether you get a vaccine or not. People will still have to mask up and follow the other guidelines. Take care.

Not quite as simple as that - it really isn’t a beauty contest between vaccines - they will suit different populations and be more or less effective for different groups. The AZ/Oxford one is very similar to existing ones and may throw up fewer surprises, it also is easy to administer, and as it is a world wide pandemic cost does matter. I recall one scientist commenting that the inoculation for TB was only 70% effective but transformed community transmission and morbidity. We have to wait and see but I am travelling hopefully although I don’t think I will be in line until Spring

Time will tell. Take care.

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