AF Association

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Vaccines bringing on AFib events?

I was at the Kaiser* clinic today for a skin issue. Going through my chart the nurse asked if I wanted to have the flu vaccine and the second part of my shingles inoculation. When she told me that they didn't conflict with each other and that worst case I would get subtle flu symptoms from each of them for a day I had her go ahead. Flu shots have always been a non event for me and the first part of the shingles vaccine didn't give me any symptoms either.

I'm now at home. It's 9:30 at night and I'm starting to get ectopics running together such that they will likely turn into another 12 hour afib event. This is the first time I can remember that this is happening to me during wakeful hours. I normally get woken up in the middle of the night as afib events are beginning.

Has anyone seen a correlation between vaccines and afib events or is this likely a coincidence?

*A lot like NHS except we Yanks pay for it.

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Respiratory tract infections

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To be honest no. I have had flu jabs for the last goodness knows how many years and never had any side effects re Arrhythmias. There is no reason why this should or could happen BUT the body is a strange thing. Any inflamation can exacerbate AF regardless of origins just as can the mind so if you were worried about it that could have made it happen. My wife has a theory that life is like a computer. If you open the program it will run so even saying I hope that won't happen may cause it. She even tells our cat "stay close" rather than "don't go far" not that it pays any attention. lol 😁

Throughout our working lives we Brits have an amount deducted from our pay to cover our lifetime healthcare costs, regardless of whether we need medical attention or not.

Not sure about your vaccine question, but I avoid them as much as I can.

Jean

Avoiding everything medical as much as you can seems a plan to me. Have had more medical attention in last 5 weeks than previous 15 years and feel much worse for it

Sometimes we really need help with our health and have no choice but to seek medical help.

Its all about 'risk' isn't it, to me the risk of not having the flu vaccination is greater than having the vaccination. I had a friend with a healthy husband who died of flu, the virus attacked his heart it happens so that makes me doubly cautious.

An episode of AF caused by a vaccination would be unpleasant, dying of flu would be worse.

This year above other years 'at risk' people are asked to have the flu vaccination, the hospitals will most probably have an extra burden with C19 patients making it more difficult for them to cope and I certainly wouldn't want to be admitted to hospital with flu and risk catching C19 while in there.

We must all decide for ourselves what we consider to be the greatest risks.

The older you get the less effective flu jabs become. Having a good level of vit D is more effective as it protects not just against flu but other non flu respiratory infections caused by cold and coronaviruses. There was a study done on vetarans in America a few years ago that showed that those who had had the flu vaccine were more likely to get infections caused by other respiratory viruses .

You comment about v D being more effective than a fly jab is not correct. You really should be careful about making incorrect statements

Your evidence for this is what precisely? Are you saying that vit D does not protect against other respiratory illnesses? Are you saying that " fly"jabs protect against non influenza RTIs?

I’m saying you above statement that V D is more effective than a flu jab is wrong. That’s all I said

Then prove it. You are simply stating what you believe to be a fact. Back up your statement . If I take the trouble I can find studies that show how ineffective flu jabs are in years where the strains in the vaccine are not well matched to the circulating strains , studies that show that older people are less protected because of failure to mount an appropriate immune response and studies showing that flu immunisation has made people more vulnerable to corona virus infection both the cold causing common or garden ones and a recent study on covid infection. There are also studies showing that having a good level of vit D will address all these concerns.

I came across this only the other day.

An interesting fact, it indicates that being vaccinated is not bullet proof..............

"How effective is the 2019 flu vaccine UK"?

school age i.e. they are aged four to ten (but not eleven years or older) on 31 August 2019. 1. Vaccine effectiveness varies from one season to the next.

Overall effectiveness has been estimated at between 30-60% for adults aged 18 to 65 years for flu infection in primary care".

Strange that it does not mention effectiveness for over 65s.

From a personal point I cannot remember the last time that I ever had the jab, more than likely I was probably a child. The only time that I can remember having the flu was xmas 1999 leading up to the Millennium New Year. I think that year in excess of 200,000 + had it, with the instruction of [not] to go to your GP - it was; take paracetamol, drink plenty, stay warm.

That is because the rate of effectiveness drops in older people due to many not being able to mount a sufficient immune response. But the doxa says that those over 65 should get it so they don't want to advertise it's lack of effectiveness for that age group.

I always have flu jab, no bad outcomes but maybe two together challenged a vulnerable system. Scary, I am sorry.

Yes, of course we pay for NHS through contributions and most of us will use a lot of resources at the end of our lives even if we have not earlier, or our nearest and dearest or our fellow citizens will use plenty. And at least as I get ill I don’t panic about the cost...

The flu jab does not necessarily stop us from getting flu. However apparently it lessens the impact. The big flu epidemic two years ago put many people in hospital, but I remember the two big London centres which dealt with it reported that none of the patients in intensive care had been vaccinated.

When I had my flu jab two years ago I was offered the shingles jab but I had to have it a week later as they do not like giving the two at the same time. The nurse did not really elaborate as to why, just some may have a reaction. I am in the UK.

Last year I had my flu jab and went back into AF shortly afterwards. It lasted from November until February and I’ve been clear since 🤞. Now I’ve been offered this year’s flu jab (too early I think?) and I’m probably going to have it after weighing up the probabilities but I will have the same problem when Covid jab comes along. I don’t think you imagined it and in fact my cardiologist suggested my last bout of AF could have been triggered by the jab. Good luck and keep well. 🙏

The vaccination works as a mild disease... And viral diseases can certainly trigger AF. It is not extensively described because flu vaccination has a commercial face and they will not lose "clients"...

Very interesting! I also have Kaiser and went in 2 weeks ago for a skin issue ( a cyst on my back). Was asked if I wanted my flu and 2nd part of my shingles. Uncanny ! Anyway, I did get my flu shot and I got my pneumonia shot as I’m of that age.

I absolutely rejected the 2nd shingles shot because I had read about many adverse reactions about that 2nd shingles shot by folks who have a-fib. I read that the first shingles shot was no big deal for anyone. It was also no big deal for me. But too many folks got very sick with that second shot. I decided to NEVER get it and told them why.

I hope you are ok. And I hope this won’t last long for you. Please research that 2nd shot and how it’s affected some people. My sisters had both shingles and had no reaction at all. But they don’t have a-fib.

I've tried googling shingles vaccine and afib together and come up with nothing linking the two. Can you lead me to anything specific that you found?

Just curious, where are you located and what Kaiser do you go to? Are you satisfied with what they do for you? I go to the Kona clinic on the Big Island in Hawaii where they are the only real choice if you want access to all specialties without having to fly to Honolulu.

Hi- did not mean to leave you hanging there. I don’t post often and not on here often. Yes, I will see if I can return to where I read about the 2nd shingles shot though it was a year ago. I don’t remember where but I will look for it. It’s been since last winter that I read the accounts from people with a-fib who had adverse reactions, some stated long term. I was due for my second Shingles portion (I had every intention of taking it) and at first ran across someone complaining about their experience and then discovered a connection from so many other a-fib folks who wrote that they had a problem with the second shot only. Perhaps this was just people who had issues all complaining on one feed, I imagine if there were any serious connections professionals would have discovered it by now and I think many people with a-fib probably do just fine with both vaccines. But it was enough to scare me not to take the chance. Shingles is a devastating disease and I do not ever want that! I’d already had the older shingles shot years ago when it was just one shot. Then years later took the first of the new shot. After reading the accounts of those who had the second shot, I decided it was not something I wanted to go through. None of them that complained had a problem with the first dosage. At any rate, that was the only thing that influenced my decision to not get the second shot. I am one that keeps up-to-date on vaccinations and not usually to concerned about such; however, this created enough concern for me to refuse it. (What a rebel- rouser I am!!! ) No clue now where I read it at this point and my finding it will be the same as you looking for it. But I’ll look. I am at the Tyson’s Kaiser.

I like Kaiser; one stop shop for everything.

Will you share any links you have about shingles shot and afib?

I'm hoping many will avoid getting the flu this year as we are seeing less people and entering less crowds because of Covid-19. I would have thought we'd see less spread of any kind of viruses this year? I've never had a flu jab and hoping to avoid getting one this year too!

* just to reiterate as a British tax payer in the past. The NHS is not free. If you have an income you pay National insurance contributions based on your earnings & taken at source (as well as income tax) . The difference is you don't face a bill when you need medical attention in the public domain. You also pay a basic rate for your prescriptions unless you are retired or unemployed.