Calcium, confused

[edgeh]

Yes, many posts on calcium, to take or not to take. Tall Allen has posted research results on the efficacy and stated that calcium supplements are not necessary if your levels are correct from a blood test.My level of calcium in 2021 was low in spite of using a Mediteranean diet and no supplements. After Dexa scan revealed osteoporosis ( 4 years of ADT) I started Prolia, supplements of calcium, vitamin d3 and k 2. Blood results from 2022, December, and April 2023 showed a score of 2.47mmol/L in a range from 2.24 to 2.58, so l have an adequate calcium level.

This afternoon, l asked a family doctor if l should continue with the supplements, the answer was yes. This is contrary advice to advice expressed on this blog.

Should l continue to take calcium with vitamin d3 and k2, or just vitamin d3 and k2, or none at all?

My PSA level for 18mths has remained at 0.01 so the urologist said no more biclutamide and Eligard. Continue with supplements or stop?

[RyderLake2]

Hello,

My suggestion, for what it is worth, is to continue. I take a maintenance dose of Prolia (aka Xgeva) regularly with my family doctor giving me an injection every six months. I believe each injection contains 60 mg of denosumab (the medical name for Prolia). In addition I take two Calcium pills (with magnesium) and two Vitamin D pills every day. My prostate cancer had metastasized to my bones at diagnosis in 1963 and this regime keeps the chance of a skeletal related event (SRE) very low. I have been taking Vitamin D, Calcium and Prolia for over ten years. Good luck!

[edgeh in reply to RyderLake2]

Is Prolia needed forever? Or can one stop it when calcium + dexa scans show no osteoporosis?

[Grandpa4 in reply to edgeh]

you can never stop Prolia apbruptly. You can do a year of Fosamax or similar bisphosphonate and then stop. You Bmd will rapidly deteriorate if you stop Prolia. If you have Bone Mets then you will need it forever.

[edgeh in reply to Grandpa4]

Thankyou. I don't intend to stop it's just that l'd prefer to not supplement if possible because of side effects.

[Hidden]

You should add Magnesium L-Threaonate to that cocktail. Will keep Calcium in the bones, and out of the blood and kidneys.

[edgeh in reply to Hidden]

Thank you, yes l also take magnesium for muscle.

[fast_eddie in reply to edgeh]

I take magnesium for heart health. I've been treated for atrial fibrillation.

[RyderLake1]

Hello,

I just read my response to this post. Not sure where 1963 came from. It was the year I graduated from high school. We are having a 60 year reunion this year so I might have been thinking about that. I was diagnosed with PCa in 2013, ten years ago.

[Muffin2019]

I take both every day, 6 year survival. Have to watch my calcium and potassium levels.

[edgeh in reply to Muffin2019]

Agree, thank you for replying.

[Chubby42]

I take Calcium Citrate tablet if I haven't had any amount in my food like sardines or salmon both with bones. So probably twice or 3 times a week,Also take magnesium, potassium, K2 & D3.

[edgeh in reply to Chubby42]

So all the comments say continue with supplementation yet Tall Allen suggested to stop calcium intake if your level is sufficient. That is my quandary.

[Chubby42 in reply to edgeh]

Hormone treatment will reduce your bone density as far as I'm aware, you just need to keep on top of it by eating the right food or topping up with supplements and may some weight exercise.A good balance of all 3 maybe for some, I walk my dogs everyday and take mostly food high in calcium or if not a top up of supplements, but I wouldn't just rely on the tablets.

[edgeh in reply to Chubby42]

Correct, good food is essential.

[dixiedad]

Do weight bearing/weight lifting exercises if you can. My last bone density scan showed a 5% increase.

[edgeh in reply to dixiedad]

Yes, now exercising more. I have more energy now. Testosterone is still low but without ADT l feel much better.

[SeattleDan]

It seems we just have to be watchful about side effects in every direction. Because of my ADT regimen and past cardiac concerns, I too had hoped to get enough calcium in my diet but discovered via DEXA scan recently that I was critically low. So I’m starting to add a good calcium supplement (plus D3 and K2) whenever I can’t get 1500 mg calcium from yogurt, fish and such. But I think I need to be careful about artery calcification too.

[edgeh in reply to SeattleDan]

Yes, effect of excess calcium in arteries Leeds to heart condition.

[Derf4223 in reply to SeattleDan]

I had a DEXA scan just after RT, and I was osteopenic. I'm also on Lupron, Abiraterone and Prednisone. I take calcium+D3+K2+magnesium, but my MO basically said I stood no chance of dealing with ADT-accelerated bone loss without Prolia. My blood calcium levels are OK. No calcifications were picked up on a CT scan taken before treatment began, and it was a very thorough CT scan. Due to Medicare rules, my next DEXA can't be before late 2024.

Ask your MO about Prolia.

[edgeh in reply to Derf4223]

Yes, l'm taking Prolia. It's just that on this site there's an argument to stop calcium if your blood sample level is within the recommended margins. Too much causes artery problems . So l still don't know what to do.

[Hidden]

Since diagnosis (stage 4b) in May 2019, I've been taking Calcium Citrate with magnesium, D3, multi vitamin with k, monthly denosumab (reduced last year to 90 day intervals) 3 month eligard, daily zytiga (1000mg) and 5 mg prednisone twice daily. Dexa shows Osteopenia ( borderline osteoporosis)@ -2.3) I've had bone fractures in spine, and intense leg pain. So I think everyone is different. I'm trying to find a doctor that will prescribe Estradiol patch

[chefjlu]

It appears that taking the supplements are useful for you. To get further clarification don't be afraid to reach out to get other doctor's input - orthopedic, dietitian and such. I have a propensity to develop kidney stones, so calcium supplements are a fine line. I follow my test results and past bone density tests have shown no problems. I actually have a kidney stone in the upper part of one kidney that has been there for several years. If and when it drops, well I'll deal with it.

Your system may need the extra, absorption may be altered, your bone density may have been low to begin with are all possibilities for continuing supplementation. We're all a little different and that guides where you should be. Second opinions are always helpful.

[Derf4223 in reply to chefjlu]

Sorry to sound callous, but as far as my layman's mind goes, kidney stones that are treated are very unlikely to be fatal. Bone loss isn't either but late age fractures greatly increase morbidity from complications. Difficult tradeoffs abound.

[chefjlu in reply to Derf4223]

My point is that a doctor's input is important. Maintaining a proper balance of calcium, magnesium, and other electrolytes allows the system to work to assist with bone health and limits other problems that can be brought on. Our systems are all different and react differently.

[chefjlu in reply to Derf4223]

As well kidney stones left untreated can lead to sepsis and possibly death.

[j-o-h-n in reply to Derf4223]

I've had 3 kidney stones on my right and 2 on my left....... I never heard of Kidney stones being treated.................. ONLY REMOVED........ Unless you want to feel how a woman feels when she's giving birth..... MARONE!!!

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 06/17/2023 6:47 PM DST

[edgeh in reply to j-o-h-n]

I never had pain, only from a bile duct stone. For kidney stones l drank glasses of apple cider vinegar with water, glasses of water with lemon juice every day, and doctor prescribed tamsulosin.

From an ultrasound the doc said l had no more stones so the remedy seemed to work.

[edgeh in reply to chefjlu]

Thank you. I also was diagnosed with kidney stones. I received medicine to dissolve them and an ultra sound shows no further problem.

[j-o-h-n in reply to edgeh]

Apple cider vinegar contains acetic acid which helps dissolve kidney stones.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 06/17/2023 6:51 PM DST

[CAMPSOUPS]

Part of the method of action of Prolia is to remove calcium from the blood stream and bring it to the bones. I was told I would need to take calcium when I was started on Zometa ( Zometa also removes calcium from blood stream ).

Who told you to take K-2?

[fast_eddie in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

I picked up on the K2 recommendation on this forum years ago, under a different username.

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to fast_eddie]

Oooops. Now I'm confused. Are you the OP of this post "edgeh" also?

Anyway the Poster "edgeh" seems intelligent enough to follow his Doctors recommendations however unfortunately his doctor didnt tell him why calcium is needed with Prolia. I doubt his doctor suggested K2 but I asked anyway out of curiousity.

[fast_eddie in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

Nope. I quit this forum and now I'm back with a different user name. That's me being redundant.

[j-o-h-n in reply to fast_eddie]

and fast.....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 06/17/2023 6:53 PM DST

[edgeh in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

So if some doc could tell me yes, you need to take calcium because you're on Prolia, that would be the definitive answer. K2 and d3 are the recommended menu when taking calcium, otherwise the calcium is deposited in the arteries rather than the bones, and that is dangerous, heart attack etc.

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to edgeh]

Yes your MO should be able to confirm that calcium is needed for those under treatment with Prolia.

Make sure you tell him about the K2 because you are trying to replenish calcium in you bloodstream taken away by Prolia. If K2 actually does what the people trying to sell supplements say it does ( remove calcium from blood ) then in addition to the Prolia doing so you could have a low calcium in your bloodstream from the effect of K2 also removing it.

[edgeh in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

Interesting. The calcium should go to your bones and not remain in the blood, so what does the blood test reveal? I would think low blood calcium is a good thing but how to measure calcium in that case?

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to edgeh]

Well a good question for the MO. About a year ago I did something I never do. I quit following the MO's directions. I am on Zometa which also requires taking calcium to to replenish what is taken away from the blood and brought to the bones. I quit taking calcium and watched my blood labs for about 6 months and my calcium stayed in the normal range. I finally told my MO and he said please start taking calcium again.

For me its a no brainer. Three MO's I have had told me to take calcium with my bone strengthener and the information from the manufacturer also state the need. I was never told to take K2 and so please ask your MO about that. It seems risky.

[edgeh in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

I recently moved back to Canada from Mexico. I managed to get a top urologist to see me every 6mths, the next time in Oct. The state of medicine, lack of help etc is atrocious in Canada these days so seeing the urologist twice a year is very fortunate. I'll ask in Oct. That is the value of Healthunlocked, it's a great support network, otherwise some of us would be lost.

[treedown in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

Have you had dexa scans throughout this back and forth?I will be back on pred soon and 2 years ago my dear scan said osteopenia. My next one is 7/19. Not thrilled about more steroids but Xtandi was just a different kind of slow death for me so had to stop.

So based on this info I may need a bone strengthened. My blood level is fine, my RO said take calcium and that I may need Prolia or Zometa and my MO tends to give me somewhat conficting information at times. I do feel they are doing right by me but decided to keep seeing my RO more regularly because why not have 2 Drs on my side if insurance becomes a problem.

Anyway, if you do get dexa scans where are you at?

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to treedown]

Well no dexa scans. In cases like mine with skull to shin mets the benefit of bone strengtheners like Zometa etc. is to stabilize met damage. The bones are in such bad shape that dexa scans aren't really pertinent.

So your off the Xtandi. Hopefully your on Nubequa now. Hope your starting to feel better.

I've felt much better the last couple weeks since finally after 5 months my appetite is back. And of course that couple months on Xtandi which failed to keep progression down ended a few months ago which helps. The trial I'm in and have so much optimism for I just got my first PSA two weeks in and it rose. Hopefully a bounce. Other markers for cancer inflamation, etc. improved.

[edgeh in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

Thanks CAMPSOUPS. I was on Eligard 6mth injections and bicalutamide for 4yrs. With a PSA of 0.01 for 18mths., the doc gave me a break, no more ADT until psa rises.I'm on Prolia because of osteoporosis forever l guess.

Wish you well in the fight.

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to edgeh]

Oh thank you edgeh. My thoughts are with you as you struggle with the care system in Canada. I hope the best for you as well.

My business trips to Canada were mostly Winnipeg with some out by the Toronto airport (Mississaugua )and further out in Brantford and London Ont. Always encountered great people on my trips to Canada.

[monte1111]

I don't know nuthing.

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to monte1111]

I have nuthing in the nutting dept.

[monte1111 in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

Nope. Can't call them nuts anymore. Only big nut around here is j-o-h-n.

[j-o-h-n in reply to monte1111]

That's nuts.......

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 06/17/2023 6:55 PM DST

[Wgly]

During Covid taking extra D3 was of benefit, but the concern was it would result in blood calcium deposits in the blood vessel walls (calcification), a problem negated by taking K2 with it. You can buy that in combination now online and in specialty stores. I'm using D3/K2 to offset my prescribed higher calcium intake.

[edgeh in reply to Wgly]

Correct. When l discovered l had pc, l knew nothing. Now, thanks to Healthunlocked l have a better chance of living longer. The medical system for whatever reasons is neglible in giving out the information of the cascading dangers: pc-ADT-osteoporosis-calcification of arteries. Discussions on this site are life savers.

[j-o-h-n]

My calcium intake......Chocolate chip ice cream (two scoops).....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 06/17/2023 6:57 PM DST