Adding calcium in order to strengthen bones

[GreatDane1979]

Hi. I have Stage IV Pca and on year 3 with Eligard and Xtandi (age 59)I've had a DEXA scan and my bones are not in the best shape due to Eligard.

Getting zolendronic acid every 4 months

I've just had a heart scan, and it seem like one of the blood vessels are starting to calcify.

The doctors want me to take 2x 400 mg calcium and Vitamin D.

They also want me to take double dose statins, although my LDL is 2.9 (EU number) and calcium readings are normal.

Question: Does calcium supplements strengthen the bones or just makes things worse when it comes to calcification of the heart and other vessels?

I do take vitamin K2

Question 2:

Will statins do anything for my heart health? A low cholesterol count doesn't mean less calcification as I understood and I am not sure statins will lower cholesterol levels.

I am doing "all the right things" - Hiit - brisk walking - cycling - eating as healthy as possible and so on.

I am 1,82 (6 ft) and 84 kg (185 lb) and trying to go down a little more due to high blood pressure (100 mg losartan+Hyd )

Thanks

[Tall_Allen]

Too much calcium may be unsafe:

"Reid et al. reported that Vitamin D supplementation had no effect on bone mineral density. They further noted that lower doses had more effect than higher doses, probably because Vitamin D has been found to pull calcium out of bones at high doses. However, Datta and Schwartz reported that at 200-500 IU/day Vitamin D and 400 mg-1,000 mg calcium supplementation had no effect on men's bone mineral density. Calcium supplementation has been associated with increased risk of prostate cancer (see this link or this link)."

prostatecancer.news/2018/07...

[GreatDane1979 in reply to Tall_Allen]

Thank Tall_Allen . Highly appreciatedI have already stopped calcium supplements.

As I live in a country where its dark 6 months a year, I guess it will be ok to take Vitamin D?

I am currently taking 10.000 i.u once a week, which seems to be too much.

Maybe every two weeks?

Do you by any chance know anything about statins and heart health?

It might not be your "speciality", but I guess you know where to find valid data better than me 😊

Thanks in advance

[Tall_Allen in reply to GreatDane1979]

Why not let your bloodwork be your guide? If your serum calcium or Vitamin D is low, supplementing can correct that. Dietary calcium should be at least 1,000 mg/day and the best sources are soft-boned fish like herring or sardines. 600 iu/day supplements for Vitamin D are sufficient.

I take pitavastatin 4 mg because it doesn't cause muscle myopathy.

[vintage42 in reply to Tall_Allen]

This is timely info, especially that link that said D supplements can work against ADT . In January my urologist started me on ADT and Calcium 600 +D3. In February a baseline DEXA scan said bones are normal, and bloodwork said calcium is normal. So I am stopping the Calcium+D pills.

[Canis-Lupus53 in reply to Tall_Allen]

A guy can't win for losing

[tango65]

My understanding is that calcified plaques are not such a bad thing if they are not causing a significant obstruction of the coronary artery requiring intervention.

Calcified plaques are stable and then don’t break like soft plaques and initiate a coagulation cascade leading to thrombosis and obstruction of the coronary arteries or brain arteries resulting in a heart attack or stroke.

The lowest the LDLs the lowest the incidence of heart attacks or strokes, so if you tolerate statins take the higher dose offered by your doctors even when your LDL is low, Your LDL is around 109 USA units, if you have coronary plaques it should be lower than 100 and ideally 70 or lower.

Just take some vitamin D to keep vit D in the normal range. Try to get calcium in your diet.

[GreatDane1979 in reply to tango65]

Thank you!

[tango65 in reply to GreatDane1979]

You are welcome. Wish you the best of luck.

[Maxone73]

If I remember correctly (from some broken bone experience and suggestions from the surgeon) you need also vitamin K2

[GreatDane1979]

Thanks. I am already doing K2 (Mk-7)

[CAMPSOUPS]

You mention getting zolenderic (Zometa) infusions.

Taking a calcium supplement seems standard of care when Zometa is initiated. Zometa removes calcium from the blood stream and brings it to the bones.

You have a conflict possibly though with your aterial plaque. Maybe discuss this with your medical oncologist is best. Above all seems keeping an eye on your calcium level will be important.

[GreatDane1979 in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

Thanks.Calcium readings are good with and without pill supplement. That's why I think extra calcium is unnecessaryI will have a talk with my oncologist tomorrow

[Lettuce231]

Glucosamine HCL pure, I've been taking this for many years. I used to take calcium due to coeliac condition, but since having prostate cancer I had to stop. My bone density has actually increased, same lab performed the test. The doctor couldn't believe it, I didn't tell them what I was taking, there are many who would reject this kind of treatment because its natural.

Make sure you get a good make and no chondrin, just pure Glucosamine.

Good luck 👍

[GreatDane1979 in reply to Lettuce231]

Thanks. I will look into that 👏

[Radars in reply to GreatDane1979]

I also will look into glucosamine pure,as I have mild to moderate wedge compression fracture of t12, with some arthritis in my lumbar spine, I am due my 2nd zoledronic acid infusion next month 25th April, after my first infusion I ended up in a/e in the middle of the night peeing blood urinary tract infection, they put me on a drip then sent me home with antibiotics the next morning which cleared it up, that's why I'm dodgy about my second infusion, I take 1000iu d3 a day with k2 mk-7, I also have locally advanced prostate cancer finished treatment 2016 psa now 0.04.

[Mbnm in reply to Lettuce231]

i am celiac and continue to take calcium as well as prolia injections…why did you say you had to stop calcium ?

I take abiraterone daily and lupron injection quarterly

[Lettuce231 in reply to Mbnm]

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Hello, I hope this link helps.

I guess that like you when diagnosed with Celiac condition, about 28 years ago, I was advised to take calcium to stave off osteoporosis, because our bone density was lacking. However I've got that anyway now and osteoarthritis, the calcium was never able to increase the density of the bone, maybe at best maintain it.

The reason I was advised to come off it, when diagnosed with PC, is included in the above report, I really hope it opens for you. it is quite in depth, but worthwhile reading.

In theory we should take in enough calcium with our food intake, if you look at blood results you will see your calcium levels, I'm guessing that they are normal.

We have a different problem to many, our treatment for PC can cause these very problems with bone density, another side effect.

I hope this helps answer your question.

[Lettuce231]

You're welcome 😊

[London441]

What does your HIIT consist of?

[GreatDane1979 in reply to London441]

25 min mostly weights (shoulder, chest, arms) and general fitness, steps etc Bl**dy hard if you ask me, but doing it 3 x times a week.

I used to do hour long weight training but those days are over. I just want to get it done and 25-30 minutes suits me better now.

[London441 in reply to GreatDane1979]

HIIT is hard yes. Hard but good.

Can you tell me what specific bones are ‘not in the best shape’ as you put it? Where in your body has the osteopenia, (or osteoporosis if any) been revealed?

[GreatDane1979 in reply to London441]

The doctors haven't been specific. It's been two years since last DEXA scan and I am going to have a new one this summer.

But I guess it's the ribs as one of them broke about 3 years ago.

As far as I remember one of the lower ones on the right side. Painful 😖

[London441 in reply to GreatDane1979]

You should have the dexa scan results from 2 years ago. Did the doctors simply tell you then that your bones were' 'not in the best shape'? If they 'aren't specific' about the details of the scan tell them to provide them to you. It shouldn't be something you have to ask for, but no matter.

If I hadn't had a dexa for 2 years while on ADT the entire time I would not be waiting until summer to get another. ADT is not kind to bone density as you know. If they refuse, get it yourself if you can afford it-they are not expensive.

Trying to assess whether to add supplements, dosage etc makes no sense if you don't know your current body composition. Know your numbers! It's everything.

If you do have any loss, it is likely in your lower half. Weight lifting with the lower body is very effective at slowing or even eliminating that, along with all its other benefits.

[GreatDane1979 in reply to London441]

Noted thanks! I do walk briskly for an hour a day for lower body strength. Maybe I should do more workout for legs

The doctors told I have risk osteoporosis.

I don't know if these numbers from my journal says anything to you

Columna lumbalis

T-score

-1,6 SD

Hips

T-score

-0,2 SD

[London441 in reply to GreatDane1979]

Osteopenia is what the numbers say, in your hips and lower back. The risk of osteoporosis is simply because you are en route to it. The lower the T score the closer you get. 2.5 or lower is the basic definition of osteoporosis.

You don’t want it, obviously. Bone strengthening drugs help, but other supplements may or may not perform as described by enthusiasts.

Walking is fine, but is not nearly enough on ADT. That you should lift weights with your legs is not a ‘maybe’, it’s definitely.

Lifting not only works, it does many other good things for you that no supplement can.

Most men on ADT don’t lift, and those who do typically neglect the legs. Don’t do this! It’s essential for older men especially, since they lose more muscle mass in their legs than women as they age, and at a faster rate. This is true regardless of the presence or absence of disease, ADT etc. Weak legs are a recipe for disaster when older. Great luck to you!

[GreatDane1979 in reply to London441]

Thanks. I used to do squats a lot, but unfortunately my knee doesn't like it, which means I am unable to walk for several days.Bearing that in mind, I think brisk walking is better than injuring the knee further.

I will see if I can come up with some other exercises.

Thanks

[dixiedad]

Weight bearing exercise is also important. Through weight lifting (15 lb dumbbells) and stationary bike riding I've had a 5% increase in bone density.

[GreatDane1979 in reply to dixiedad]

Yes - doing a combo of HIIT weights and cardio

[Explorer08]

Weight lifting is essential to good bone health and maintaining muscle for men in our situation. Cardio is important but less important than weight lifting. I do both but more time is spent with weights.

[SteveTheJ]

FWIW, my situation is probably somewhat unusual but my calcium is already borderline high so I take no calcium but I take D3.

[j-o-h-n]

Your age? (or is it 2024 - 1979 = 45). That's considering half a year in sun other half in moon...

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

[Professorgary]

my MO said I should start taking calcium when I started Xgeva. I declined until Dexa scan results. BMD normal. The important factor with calcium is magnesium. You need at least half as much magnesium as calcium for the body to be able to process calcium properly. My calcium level in fine and I stopped Xgeva.

[GreatDane1979 in reply to Professorgary]

I do take magnesium citrate and bisglycinate.I have just ordered magnesium taurate too

[Rickmartin1948]

I am going through the same process and my Oncologist recommended resistance work and after 6 months checked again and it did not get any worse

[Mgtd]

For those who have access to a gym you may find they have a machine to do legs. There are two types a vertical and horizontal.

The vertical one is easier on the back.

With the horizontal you push out and with vertical you push up with you back reclining and it has more support. That is why the vertical one is easier on the back.