BCAAs - Tyrosine, phenylalanine - protein powders

[jazj]

Anyone have a grasp on the biochemistry of BCAAs in protein powders as they relate to PCa progression? I've read PCa feeds off of phenylalanine so wise to avoid the aspartame artificial sweetner. Tyrosine sounds closely related? Or is moderate intake of protein powders not that different than moderate intake of animal sources of protein, all having BCAAs? So no scientific evidence you're protein powder is exacerbating the PCa.

[LearnAll]

Protein is the last thing to harm in case of PCa unless it is processed and of animal origin. .(rotten and preseved..putrified) Preferred fuel for prostate cancer cells is Fatty acids esp from animal origin saturated fats. In very late stage(terminal state), fat is finally replaced by sugar as fuel. As for sugar substitutes, IMO.. Monk fruit and Stevia are safer than aspartame.

Protein powders have so many other substances in them and its not known if they harm or not. So if one has to use protein powder, relatively safe one is Plain, whey protein ISOLATE.

[LearnAll]

Agree. One reason bad news about Aspartame does not come out frequently is because powerful corporations like CocaCola, Pepsico and others use a huge amount of Aspartame in their drinks. Honestly, a small amount of cane sugar should be fine for tea or coffee.

[mrscruffy]

I take BCCA's regularly. My oncologist approved and he is up on about every chemical and compound there is

[Kevinski65]

Anyone take Taurine powder? It's supposed to slow things down. Nothing proved on humans. I take this, it has a microscopic scoop, like twice a week. I also took 4mu from Europe I got it. You really can't tell if these thing do anything. That's the problem , but artificial sweeteners is a no brainer. It says right on the can that it causes cancer.

[jazj in reply to Kevinski65]

I take 1000 mg a day. I was taking 2000mg a day for 2 days after weekly intense weight lifting to combat DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) which was brutal (in my early 50's). The Taurine helped but wasn't a silver bullet. I did a systematic review of all supplements I was taking prior to PCa diagnosis to make sure I wasn't taking anything that could promote PCa. Taurine turned out to be one of those things that appears to only potentially have anti-PCa properties. More importantly I switched to like a 85% Vegan diet which Taurine is something you miss out on with a Vegan diet (unless you eat seaweed.)

[j-o-h-n]

I think I'm starting to give up.............

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 06/20/2022 9:58 PM DST

[timotur]

Excess protein may be a risk for PCa progression by up-regulating IGF-1 and M-TOR pathways.

medicine.wustl.edu/news/exc...

[jazj in reply to timotur]

I had run across some information both on a more technical biochemical level and more general regarding protein intake which is what prompted me to ask the question here in the first place. As it seems pretty much any topic, someone here has already done a deep dive on. I do weight lifting once a week and typically strive for about 100-120 g of protein in the 24-36 hours after. It helps me keep my lean muscle to body fat ratio high but as my age in my mid 50's with naturally diminished testosterone, I would guess the extra protein doesn't have a huge difference on the amount of post-exercise muscle hypertrophy. My priority is obviously to minimize chance of promoting cancer progression over maintaining a good muscle build.

I think I'll just go easier (less, shorter period) on the protein bump in the day post workout and the rest of the week go easy on the protein. Which the latter is no problem as I've gone to about an 85% Vegan diet. Just not going to overdue it on the beans and tofu then.

[jazj]

I read that about casein when I was researching after diagnosis. My post-workout protein powder was a blend of Whey Isolate and Casein so I switched to Soy protein powder then to a Pea Protein powder due to the lower amounts of Methionine which is supposedly not good for the cancer. Interestingly casein is a major component of dairy and dairy has had some negative associations with PCa which they though was calcium but maybe its the casein more than the calcium as some studies have shown calcium supplementation (within reason) didn't increase PCa. In fact abnormally low or high levels of calcium did. I also read a study where people drinking high-fat milk had less occurrence than those drinking low-fat, that seems completely backwards to what one would expect.

I just had a consult with Dr. Gary Deng at Memorial Sloan Kettering who's their Integrative medicine expert. We talked about protein powders. He didn't poo poo them from a post-exercise supplementation standpoint and just said he would alternate between the different forms (Whey, Soy, Pea, Rice).

I think the data about high-protein being pro PCa would probably be statically significant on a consistent high protein diet as opposed to short spurts for post-workout reasons. Working out can temporarily increase testosterone levels too which isn't good for PCa. I think you just need to find a balance between living a healthy lifestyle and being overly paranoid about each little thing we do and eat relative to PCa which I'm afraid the latter I have sort of fallen into that trap but starting to climb out of.

[timotur]

Good thoughts, I’ve wondered why so many men on this forum are former/current athletes of every kind, and whether high protein consumption had anything to do with getting PCa or progression of it. In my 30’s-40’s, I was consuming large amounts of protein— milk, eggs, meat, while extremely active in competitive sports, and wonder if that excess protein consumption, including casein/milk and choline/eggs were contributing factors. Anyway, now I cut way back on all of the above, probably eat 40-50g of protein a day from various plant sources, goat milk/cheese, and fish— mostly tuna/sardines. BMI is 22, still at my high school weight of 145lbs, work out/play sport, six days/wk.

[jazj in reply to timotur]

During my conversation with Dr. Deng in the Integrative Medicine at Sloan Kettering, I remarked at the end how at times I've wondered "why me?" I told him based on all my research my opinion was that (1) my Dad had it, (2) chronic untreated high cholesterol (primarily hereditary) (3) high stress and (4) probably averaged 3 alcohol servings per day (80% red wine 2 on the weekdays 3-4 weekends) were probably the most likely contributing factors (1 and 2 being really key.) I socially smoked off and on but very sporadically and at my peak maybe had a pack a week for 3 months. Last 5 years I hit the protein shakes all weekend after Friday workout.

Dr. Deng said, it's typically a lot more factors than that. His metaphor was, eventually your car will break down after many many years of driving it. During those years you may have hit pot holes along the way. Did a single pot hole make your car break down? No. Did it contribute a little bit to shortening the life of your car? Probably.

Right now I'm struggling with the idea of virtually eliminating alcohol from my diet. I'm a wine lover. Seattle Cancer Care Integrative Medicine Expert recommended taking it from about average 16-18 glasses of wine per week to 0-1 a day or 5 per week. Dr. Deng said 0-1 per week! But also said, if you can't go that low don't stress out about it. Having a glass of red wine most evenings to enjoy with a meal or wind down and relax in the evening has its benefits as far as your mental state but technically alcohol IS a carcinogen so eliminating it and saving it for rare special occasions is the optimal goal. I have no problem eating beans, tofu and broccoli the rest of my life, but giving up the red wine is going to be a challenge.

[timotur in reply to jazj]

It's really hard to give up some pleasures like alcohol and certain foods. PCa has forced me into a narrow band of what I can eat and drink. In the later stages of ADT, I developed borderline fatty liver (NAFLD), probably because of high cholesterol, and high E2 levels coming off ADT as T recovered quickly. Gone are the days I can eat/drink anything. I used to drink socially, but now it's down to a beer every few weeks. I questioned a lot of things after getting PCa being active and healthy, but I think of it as a metabolic disease caused by chronic inflammation due to repeated exposure to risk factors, and like Dr Deng said, it's not one thing, but a combo of factors most likely that cause it. Watch the alcohol, it will cause fatty liver disease. Go over to the British Liver forum, and you'll see a lot of ex-drinkers with liver problems, especially with high cholesterol. ADT adds another risk factor.