PSA results Lupron + Zytiga working beautifully

[Scout4answers]

PSA

6/8/21 - 21.40

took antibiotic (Cipro) for 30 days

7/13/21 - 12.10

9/2/21 started Lupron

11/5/21 - 1.34

11/9/21 started Zytiga

12/15/21 - 0.25

1/13/22 - 0.12

2/15/22- 0.05

[EmpireGradeCyclist]

Great PSA progression. Curious as to why your MO had you start with Cipro before hormonal treatment.

[Scout4answers in reply to EmpireGradeCyclist]

He was trying to rule out inflammation as a cause for my high PSA

[GeorgeGlass in reply to Scout4answers]

Wow, you’re lucky that you didn’t get severe destruction side effects from cipro like currumpaw and I did. That stuff kills and mames hundreds of thousands. I think your doctor was irresponsible doing that. There are much safer ways to lower inflammation in a healthy way. Glad it didn’t harm you.

[MyDad76 in reply to GeorgeGlass]

Hi George, do you mind sharing what kind of side effects did you have from cipro?

[GeorgeGlass in reply to MyDad76]

I had the sister drug similar to cipro. They are both floroquinolones. We had Levaquin. I had numerous issues: heart palpitations, severe weakness to ligaments and tendons around my body ( I had to sit on a stool for 2 months during showers due to pain in leg tendons, balance problems, sleep problems, frequent urination, severe sadness deeper than Ive ever experienced, resurfaced viruses like epstein barr, leaky gut, severe fatigue, brain fog etc. These were not present until I took the 10 days of 500mg Levafloxin/Levaquin.

[treedown]

Good #s

[Scout4answers]

I know, I am lucky, thanks

[Hidden in reply to Scout4answers]

🙏👏👏✌️👏👍

[Spyder54]

Still laughing at the photo as it is so true (until all this crazy PCa stuff with ADT putting a quiet pill on our manhood). My wife says glad I dont bug her all the time🤔. Great numbers. Many of us on the same mission to delay Cast Resistence way out into the future.

Mike

[CAMPSOUPS]

Good to see. I lost track of where you were in treatment.

[Hidden]

That is the reason for ADT. "They" no longer control us!

Great results! Mine were similar. My MO thinks that the ADT/Zytiga combo is a powerful one. I've been using Zytiga with some breaks for 3 years.

[londoncyclist48]

Congratulations. 0.05 is close to undetectable levels. I'm jealous. My last reading was 0.08. I'm still hoping mine will go lower.

Interesting to read others thoughts on the whole chasing women thing. That is certainly an advantage of prostate cancer. I feel I see everything much clearer now. In some ways, I'm a lot happier.

[Scout4answers in reply to londoncyclist48]

I found a keeper. She has to kick start me sometimes these days but we still have great fun between the sheets. I told her last night that the score is now... Coco 165 days - Lupron 0, we are 5.5 months into ADT

High in the Rockies

[Shooter1 in reply to Scout4answers]

Enjoy it while you can... and best of luck in the future when the damned stuff comes sneaking back into your life//// Life Is Good, even with aPca...

[Hidden in reply to Shooter1]

That is the catch with this bs disease ? I’m sorry shooter . Hormonally feed c is a mother.

[Hidden in reply to Scout4answers]

Go team coco! ❤️✌️

[Magnus1964]

Great response to zytiga. Keep up the good work.

[Scout4answers in reply to Magnus1964]

Thanks Magnus but the only work that I am doing is the weight lifting and or biking every day, drugs which I have a love /hate relationship are doing the real work.

[Chrisbaird]

Very good results ..I’ve been on zytiga 15 months combined with H T 3 monthly reduced PSA last 9 months 0.01 readings

[Scout4answers in reply to Chrisbaird]

Awesome Chris, I hope to join you there. If you had monthly PSA tests would you please post the progression to 0.01

[Chrisbaird in reply to Scout4answers]

Thanx scout4answers PSA was25 oct20 when started zytiga I was on 1000gm daily but after 2 months I had liver toxicity with PSA 11 after a month off zytiga I went on too 500gm daily had readings of 0.05. Then 0.02 following months. Admit energy levels and hot flushes in summer months my main problem within 21

[Hidden in reply to Chrisbaird]

👏👏

[leo2634]

Same medication other than the Cipro. I have been 0.1 PSA since 02/27/18 best of luck Brother stay strong. Never give up Never surrender. Leo

[Scout4answers]

Thanks Leo...Reading thru your profile and some past posts... looks like you have not had radiation and or surgery. Is there a reason?

also would you talk a little more about your 4 year experience on the 2 ADT drugs. I am trying to decide how long to continue on them once I reach 0.01

[Hidden]

Had a similar diagnosis-several "suspicious" things on scans. When are you doing radiation? I had EBRT 6 weeks after starting Lupron. What are they radiating? How long do you plan on being on ADT? How do you know you will reach .01?

[Scout4answers in reply to Hidden]

I have met with 4 ROs so far, plan on consulting with a 5th that uses Viewray machine as that is currently most advanced. (MRI guided in real time, lowest margins ( 2mm) hence potentially fewer side effects). May have to go out to UCLA to get the most experienced operator. Last Doc, a Proton specialist, told me I have a 6 -12 month window from the start of Lupron to get radiation. I am planning on having the the whole LN chain radiated since I know I have LN involvement.

I am still trying to understand what Lupron does, does it kill cancer cells or just shrink them and put them to sleep? different opinions from different doctors. Is there any point to staying on Lupron once you have reached 0.01 if it has killed all the cels that it can? One thing we all know thanks to this forum is that over time the cancer returns.

I am thinking positively that I will reach 0.01, if not will adjust to the reality of what life gives me very quickly.

[Hidden in reply to Scout4answers]

Senescence they call it. Weakens and puts them to sleep so they are more susceptible to radiation i THINK but too long and they wake up and learn how to cope. “ADT-induced senescence is a transient cell state from which CRPC populations can emerge, identifying senescence as a potential driver of disease progression.” Or in other words, the ADT makes them soft, but the radiation kills them. To me you risk waiting too long until the cancer cells form androgen-independent outgrowths, but that’s probably that 6-12 month window.

[Scout4answers in reply to Hidden]

Thank you very helpful

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to Scout4answers]

Hoping someone with a better handle than I have on a simplified explanation would respond to you.Of course the adt practically eliminates the testosterone that the cancer feeds on.

Without food C cells don't proliferate. No food so they back off their feeding frenzy/proliferation which results in tumors shrinking. Senescence occurs and this definition of senescence might be helpful:

Senescence is generally regarded as a tumour suppressive process, both by preventing cancer cell proliferation and suppressing malignant progression from pre-malignant to malignant disease

Maybe? Maybe some C cells also die off in the process but I don't think so.

Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone are the two main androgens in the body, essential for normal prostate development, growth and maintenance of physiological functions.8 They are mostly produced in the testes and adrenal glands. The prostate cancer itself is also a source of androgens, and it has been shown that nearly all prostate cancer cells depend on androgens and AR signaling for growth. Early in carcinogenesis, prostate cancer cells switch from AR-guided cytodifferentiation of luminal epithelial cells to the AR driving the uncontrolled proliferation of these cells. This switch is a critical event in carcinogenesis, as the AR becomes the primary driver of neoplastic growth in malignant cells.9

ADT is the gold standard treatment for patients with metastatic disease at presentation.10 The basis of ADT is to reduce testosterone levels, or to block the peripheral action of testosterone through androgen blockade, achieved with surgical castration or pharmacological agents.5 However, surgical castration can lead to negative psychological effects on patients; therefore, treatment mostly focuses on achieving deprivation with GnRH agonists and antagonists.

[Scout4answers in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

Thanks very helpful CAMPSOUPS

it has been shown that nearly all prostate cancer cells depend on androgens and AR signaling for growth. Early in carcinogenesis, prostate cancer cells switch from AR-guided cytodifferentiation of luminal epithelial cells to the AR driving the uncontrolled proliferation of these cells. This switch is a critical event in carcinogenesis, as the AR becomes the primary driver of neoplastic growth in malignant cells.9

Does Lupron bind with the ARs, I know that Zytiga does

Blocking the AR pathway seem like the way to avoid CRPR, the reason I have been exploring BAT, as it is thought that excess T binds with those receptors.

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to Scout4answers]

Well off the top of my head with my very advanced dx I haven't explored that very much. I am in awe with Zytiga. It actually goes to the tumors themselves.

[bean1008]

Been on them (lupron/zytiga/pred) for a year now and seeing great results but the fatigue is really starting to wear me down. I think my MO wants me to stay on them for at least two years but I've heard dropping the zytiga can help resolve the fatigue issue. Anyone else been there?

[Scout4answers in reply to bean1008]

Sorry to hear about fatigue, are you doing any exercising?

[bean1008 in reply to Scout4answers]

When i'm not too exhausted I get out for a 45 min walk...on a good day I'll do hills and stairs. But seems they've been fewer lately.

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to bean1008]

That's about my speed. Always make sure I dont stray so far from home that I can't make it back or embarass myself resting in someones yard.

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to bean1008]

I don't mean to be Debbie Downer but no guarantee of fatigue reduction by eliminating Zytiga. In my one off experience adding Zytiga did not increase the fatigue I already had from a year plus on Lupron/Eligard.

As we know though we don't all have identical experiences.

Also I hate to say it but if I were your spouse I would like to see you bite the bullet and stay on the meds. Give yourself every chance of a long time of no progression when you finish the meds.

[bean1008 in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

That's what I've heard as well...dropping the abi is no guarantee. I told my pcp yesterday that I was considering an orchiectomy due to chronic pain down there. We both at the same time said ' phantom pain'. So you just might not get the relief you're hoping for in both cases.

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to bean1008]

I wish phantom pain was funny as it first strikes me but in reality it can be a real burden. Hope you aren't experiencing that.

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

Sometimes I have a phantom erection lol.

[Hidden]

Scout! I want you to love much and rock for decades ! You can do it! 🏋🏽‍♂️

[Scout4answers in reply to Hidden]

Thanks Lulu, my plan exactly!

[Hidden in reply to Scout4answers]

With love as the reason to live you’ve got a hand up in this world . I don’t know how guys go it alone . Much stronger than I . You’re lookin good hombre! 😎👍

[Scout4answers in reply to Hidden]

Thanks Lulu for the kind words. The more time I spend with Coco the better looking I get. ;-)When I take her dancing , total strangers ( often more than one per night) come up to us to tell us how beautiful we are together, or how great it is to see two people so much in love.

[Hidden in reply to Scout4answers]

Love is the greatest reward! Nothin else matters! ❤️🤙🏽🏋🏽‍♂️

[Hidden]

Hey Scout . We all be dead if not for antibiotics . However,I dislike the cipro . I grew immune to it and all others except bactrim after 18 months of use for uti’s. I’m convinced that the bad antis wrecked my joints . I’m happy not be on them . Take care .

[Scout4answers in reply to Hidden]

I agree about Cipro but it was short term and before I had a PET scan that confirmed the extent of PCa

[bean1008]

I just finished two courses for a UTI and hoping it's finally gone! Augmentin the second round, first was cefalexine. My urologist said that the bacteria likes to hang on to foreign objects like the staples in my bladder due to my RP and urethra reattachment. Bummer. Time will tell. Just what I want is another cystoscopy...had one about six months ago for a calcium buildup on an exposed staple.

[Hidden in reply to bean1008]

That’s brutal bean . You’ll get out of it soon . I had internal plastic stents and they got colonized 3 days after each time I changed them out . I’m Glad to have escaped that hell . You will too. Hang in there . Scott

[bean1008 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks Scott! Best to you!

[Guppyman1773]

Same diagnosis ...Same results over last 18 months EBR 2012 .Now 80 years old feel great Cannot expect more really. Love United Health advantage.

[GeorgeGlass]

How are your side effects with the zytiga. What dosage and type of steroid? Did i already ask you these questions scout? Lol.

[Scout4answers]

No real side effect that I can attribute to Zytiga also taking 5 mg Prednisone. I believe the weight lifting has mitigated the side effects.