To ask or not for an ADT Vacation?
Two weeks till next Med Onc. 3 month F/U. I've been on Abiraterone 250mg and Lupron 90 day inj's and Prednisone since Sept 2019.
And Lupron injection again. Disappointed with: Weight gain and lack of total energy. Should I be persistent with my med oncologist June 8th on my 21 months of APC treatment? Or not?
Of Course..it is very frustrating to get this weight gain. But the weight can be controlled and lost if we can eat 90% of food as vegetables, fruits, roots and leaves. That is what helped me and I am 149 lbs now. Its hard to do but its possible.
As for taking a vacation.. that also is possible . But to determine suitability for a vacation, all the labs and other data is required to see if it is safe for you to take a vacation. During vacation, one has to monitor biomarkers closely.
Ok. So stop lean meats. And carbohydrate starches.
I am on a hospital weight monitored Trimfast 1500 cal per day limit.
Have dropped from 196.5 down to 187.8 now. I eat lots of fruit and veggies daily, trying to keep my Diverticulitis attacks at bay. Love all fruits and vegetables.
Maybe i should drop my Calorie intake to 1200-1300 daily?
LearnAll,
Yes I’m doing all my CMP and CBC and PSA labs on June 3, 5 days before MO vist.
Seems you are already doing right things. Just decrease total calories. I get proteins from lentils, peas and beans. Protein requirement is ...1 gram per kilogram obody wight. Anything more is just xtra burden on kidneys.
DepotDoug...yes. keep the calories to <1400/day...and incorporate 16:8 intermediate fasting...and I believe you are a PF member...keep that up...the weight will come off.
Remember...keep protein a min of 80 gms a day to maintain muscle.
Yes < 1400/day. Yes I’m a P Fitness Classic member since 2014. One time some days twice daily @ PF. It relieves stress and keeps muscles at 69yr 2m good shape.
Never ever heard of 16:8 intermediate fasting. I’ll check it out tonight and Tue.
Thxs TomTom1111
I forgot to include that the 1400/day is net calories. So if you go to the gym and burn 650 calories you should consume 2050/calories. Thats still a lot of calories and you shouldn't be hungry.
I am fervently exercising once daily usually twice daily… Average 11,500+ steps a day. I’ve got a six day structured Personal Fitness trainer workout.
Monday and Thursdays are leg workout strength. Tue and Friday Core abs w/o.
I have no problems exercising. Best upper body strength i’ve had in 15 yrs.
Eliptical, Bycycling Treadmill, stairmaster, what else can i do?
Cut back eating …
Yep Some of my best doctors, ones that really care know me as “ EEC”
Doug. aka Excessive Exercising Compulsion.
May 12th 2011 was my SCA spent 12 days in CICU plus rehab. I guess i’ve come a long way baby, 10yrs 12 days now. Plus on my 2nd ICD/pacemaker device…
Thxs Nails_Nathan
You’re one tuff son of a gun. Keep on !
Have you tried push-ups?
Hi Doug, it’s not only how much, but when you eat, try consuming more of your calories earlier in the day…. youtu.be/zC9_g01disc
This is something i absolutely did not know.I will re-watch video on intermittent fasting or intermiitent eating on my full screen PC tonight again.
Can i still exercise with this type of food nutrition program?
Yes, exercising at the end of a fast is the best way to lose weight. I’ve found exercising in the morning before eating is the best way to go into calorie deficit and increase the body’s metabolism for the day— even just a 10-minute walk or exercise routine to elevate your heart rate and sweat. After that, drinking water with lemon and a coffee with MCT oil helps put me into keto where I’m burning fat. Although it’s hard to get going in the morning, it’s a good way to fight ADT’s counter-effect of lower metabolism with castrate-level T.
Intermittent fasting is good but it also results in binge eating. High amounts of fruits and veggies, especially fruit, jack up the B vitamin levels and upregulates metabolism. Cycle this in with no meat, going just pure vegan, and avoid the nuts grains as much as possible. Potatoes are OK. Try it for 3 weeks. The weight loss people experience is significant. Moreover, its a methionine restriction diet and helps stop cancer growth.
Watched it , will try it. Lupron over6 yrs has me 70 lbs over my starting weight. Sucks. I go to the gym 3 days a week and I am losing, but not fast enough. Thanks for the link
This is the question I ask of thee?
I love some of the replies here , quit eating you lazy bum . No one should assume other factors in life affect weight gain other than chemical castration . I have never belonged to a prostate cancer group where some of the men have no empathy or sympathy for the men going through terrible issues . " Suck it up buttercup " seems to be this groups mantra !
I’m gonna message my weight management medical folks now and tell em just that. I’m stopping eat Period. See what they say…
With 2 scoops of chocolate ice cream please.
Plagiarism
Is so satisfying.
I'm sure but when you know who finds out....
Only the Shadow knows......
6 ft 250 lbs shadow...with big mammies
Have been on "holiday" since last August and doing 16/8 fasting. Losing a little less than 1 lb/week - difficult for the first 1 or 2 weeks then no problems. what makes the diet easy to tolerate is that there are no rules during the eating time portion. Could probably lose weight quicker with a more disciplined approach but not sure i could keep it up for an extended period. eating more fruits and veggies but lapsing with a big greasy burger and fries once a month or so.
Am puzzled at your dose of 250 mg abiraterone - the soc dose is 1000 mg in a fasted state - presume you are taking with some food? There's a huge food effect - if taken with a mcdonald's big breakfast there's a 10+ fold increase in the blood level. I took 250 mg day w/ a healthy lunch and probably got fluctuating and consistently more absorbed than that which would be achieved with 1000 mg in fasted state (which also caused some stomach cramps and severe leg cramps). If you continue w/ AA, might want to try for same amount of food when the AA is taken, to minimize dose variance.
hope you find something that works for you.
Agree. Some members do REAL exercise. Others just don’t 😩
The best plan to get rid of extra pounds on ADT is to not have gained them in the first place.
This isn’t to be critical of you; it is SO easy for any of us to gain fat on ADT as you know, and extremely difficult to get rid of it. I was very diligent, worked out daily and gained 5 pounds of gut fat anyway.
I had to come to the realization of something I already knew: You can’t exercise your way out of it, especially when older. Caloric restriction must come with.
You can work out all you want, and it’s essential and beneficial of course. However, trying to wade through all the diet advice here is just as well replaced by common sense-sugar, unhealthy fats and meat in extreme moderation, lots of vegetables, plant based protein sources blah blah blah...all true and good, but no need to pin your hopes on any specific diet, supplement regimen etc. Less food of the right kind! Get used to being hungry, it goes away and the momentum of the change feels good.
Throw away the scale, figuratively at least. Redistribution can mean a much healthier body with no dramatic change in weight.
It’s best to do this as if an ADT vacation is not an option and never will be. THEN pursue your vacation.
This because although return of testosterone no doubt helps, we never know when we have to do without it again, not to mention how often it takes a very long time for T to return, doesn’t return completely etc. Don’t bank on it!
Also: be as intense in your workouts as you can. Personally I’d replace some of those 11,500 daily steps with some HIIT.
If you’re working out as hard as you say you are your diet clearly needs work.
Just make the commitment! It’s not so hard.
HIIT workouts? At 69 yrs old. I've heard of it. Have other friends that do it. Maybe enlist a Personal Fitness Trainer again that promotes HIIT. High Intensity Interval Training. Think that term is correct.
It's a struggle. Sorry you're going through this. Having this disease is bad enough but having to deal with the side effects of the drugs used to fight it is really hard. The side effects tend to occur quickly and seem to last forever. Good luck to you with whatever you decide.
EdinBaltimore
I went on the Nutrisystem diet and stopped drinking alcohol; lost 40 lbs. I also work out 3-4 times a week doing cardio and resistance training. You have to eat less and use your muscles more: no other choice! Working out also helps relieve fatigue and emotional stress.
Depotdoug; I have the same problem. Frustrating. The harder I try the behinder I get. 😓
Depotdoug,I'm a little shy about contributing but your issue is very similar to mine except i'm 10 years your senior.
Could it be your metabolism has been slowed down by your heart meds , beta blockers are listed as some of the worst for weight gain but there are others. This could cause the problem of loosing weight when your taking heart or blood pressure meds that cause weight gain. Please understand I'm speaking from my own experience and not giving medical advice.
To Westerville I say, your entitled to your opinion but I find this forum to be a very supportive and carry group.
Yes I am on beta blocker BP med's. Carvedilol(Coreg) 25mg's twice daily. You are exactly right Hobiert. Never thought about that. Thanks so much.So, if I can loose weight my BP should decrease, maybe. Then I can reduce my Beta Blocker med with my Cardiologist approval...
The ULTIMATE secret of weight loss is ....How many Calories go inside and How many calories go out (burn).....Everything else is just a way to reach this goal of CALORIE DEFICIT. For example: On May 25, total Intake was 1750 calories and total output was ,say 3500 calories. So Calorie deficit created on May 25 was MINUS 1750 calories.
Scientifically speaking, 1 pound of Fat has 3500 calories . A calorie deficit created was 3500- 1750= 1750. Therefore ,you burned half pound of fat on May25.
This is a simple formula. But it is accurate.
I should be using utilizing this formula. Really counting my Exercise Calories burned per day on both of my Fitness trackers. FITBIT IONIC and my Apple S4 super watch. Right.Does this Calorie in Calorie out still prove true for us on ADT, long term???
Depotdoug, when I mentioned my concern about not being able to control/lose weight because of ADT, my oncologist suggested Intermittent Fasting. He said it isn't so much what you eat, but when you eat. He recommended "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung if I was interested. I read that - and really enjoyed it. I have made significant changes in when and what I eat since reading Dr. Fung's book.
I had primarily tried Vegan and Mediterranean Diets since diagnosis 11 years ago, but could make very little progress in controlling weight. I currently eat only dinner M-F, and have breakfast and dinner on the weekends. Also, I follow the guidelines for a Keto Diet. My exercise is walking a couple of miles daily and plenty of yard work.
I've not felt this good since starting ADT. I have more energy and vitality than I thought I'd ever have again. My BP has also decreased. This may not be for everyone, but it has helped me...and, of course, I'd discuss any drastic diet changes with your doc before proceeding. There are also plenty of podcasts about IF and Keto. One of my favorites is "Low Carb MD Podcast".
Good luck with all the member suggestions and new info!
Sorry, it's in the jeans, I mean genes. Become comfortable with yourself and forget about weight shaming. I see so many people who do the drill and lose weight and look great, and then go back to where they were, and still look great. I like to drink and then in the evening I quit and have a dinner. And then many treats. I have finally lost almost 30 lbs. Prednisone in the library was the culprit of weight gain, I believe. (I was not on Zytiga.) Go to my website - 2scoopschocolatechipicecream.com for useful advice. Best of wishes.
But you are taking Zytiga so you should be taking prednisone. Prednisone may not be your culprit. Or may be. Talk with doctor please. I could be wrong on so many levels.
Yes. ZYTIGA abiraterone 250mg. Just 250 mg. w/ one 5mg Prednisone daily.
I was always told Lupron hormone inj caused weight gain especiallyvin belly gut.
Carvedilol beta blocker BP med is a contributor culprit too.
Either way ya put it drugs cause weight gain
Food causes weight gain. Like a catch twenty two.
Years ago I went on a medical supervised weight loss program and lost 100 lbs. More recent I have been around 190 to 200. With the start of Eligaurd I decided I was not going to gain weight! When totally plant based diet, but did add some fish back in. My current weight is down to 166. It is not easy, it has to really be important to you!! It is not your DNA or meds, they my make it harder, but it is still calories in vs calories out.
I was NOT pleased with my one-year ADT vacation a few years ago. PSA started to accelerate rapidly so back on Lupron-for-life. Yes weight gain and energy loss is a problem. I fight it every day. Lap swimming helps me a lot.
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PRE-ZYTIGA LUPRON PSA DIDN'T DROP MUCH
