Lupron vs Orchiectomy

[Cancerisnotme]

I am curious if anyone has had Lupron injections for a while and has been able to maintain leg muscle or at least strength. I have been exercising regularly with walking and weight lifting to try and minimize muscle loss and loss of bone strength. What ever I do I seem unable to prevent the loss of strength in my legs. I was diagnosed 1 1/2 years ago with Stage 4 PC Gleason 8 with PSA of 63 at the age of 49. The Lupron and Abiratirone + prednisone has kept my PSA at or below .2 for the past year. I have been considering orchiectomy in place of the Lupron in the hope to relieve the leg muscle loss. I did read a post from Break60 that the Estrogen patch therapy helped with leg strength, but my MO is not in favor this therapy. When I asked my MO about orchiectomy he was enthusiastic for reasons of cost and convenience to me, although he was not sure it would help with leg strength. I have been able to handle the other side effect well, but this really bothers me. My MO said I would be on ADT therapy for the rest of my life, so I am strongly considering this option for the simple convenience. I would appreciate any input from individuals with similar experience or anyone that has seen any research pertaining to this decision. Thank you.

[Schwah]

Brutha I and others on this site (like Nalakrats) can tell you from

Personal experience that it can be done. Hire a trainer if you can afford it or at least one to get you started. My trainer is a bear. I have a love/hate relationship with him. He cut me zero slack for no T. 1 hour twenty minutes three times a week weight training. It’s miserable every time. 3 to 4 sets of twenty to thirty on lighter weights to exhaustion on all muscle groups. I’ve always gone to the gym but never worked this hard and diligently. I think I’ve missed two or three sessions in two years. When I went in there the first time I took off my shirt and said “I don’t want to look worse than this in a year.” He said “if you look like that in a year after being in my gym I’ll close the doors”. Lol. Private message me and I’ll send you before and after pictures as proof that I’ve actually gained muscle tone and lost weight after 20 months on Lupron and Zytega and I feel great. It’s just dedication out of fear. And the added bonus is it’s proven to extend life of prostate cancer patients.

Schwah.

[Cancerisnotme in reply to Schwah]

Thanks man, I needed to hear that it is possible. Ill have to see if I can find a trainer to help me with my leg work out. I have not gained any weight, in fact lost some. The rest of my body has stayed tone, just not my legs.

[Danielgreer in reply to Cancerisnotme]

I’ve been able to keep my legs toned pretty well. I lift every other day alternating between upper body and lower body and do core each time. For lower body I either do leg extensions, leg curls, and calf raises, or alternately do squats. On the days I don’t lift I try to get in 10k steps and run about a mile. I take off 1 or two days per week. The exercise makes a huge difference in how I feel. Sometimes it’s hard to get out and do it but knowing that my muscles will atrophy if I don’t really is a big motivator for me. I wish you all the best and hope that you can get the tone back in your legs. I think it would give you a positive lift mentally so work hard! Please report back in a month or two and let us know how it’s going.

[dougnola in reply to Schwah]

Hi Cancerwarrior...I’m with Schwah here. I’m on Lupron and have made a personal decision to stay there for the foreseeable future. I was a big runner before all this hit me at 50 and had slim build with muscular legs. So, my legs first atrophied the first year (and a half) and my torso got softer (I got small tits too). About a year ago, I started walking 15,000 steps a day and seeing a trainer twice per week. So, it takes time and work but my legs are nearly as strong as they were and my bod is trim and lean. Without hormones, I admit I work twice as hard for 80% of the result. But I think I’m better for it and it has the added benefit for bone strength. Keep at it! ✌️

[Hidden in reply to dougnola]

And you’re “Lookin good” amigo ..Keep up the good work and attitude .. peace brother ..

[j-o-h-n]

It's a bitch.....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 11/25/2019 7:15 PM EST

[Irun]

Hi, I was 49 when diagnosed T4n1m1a. Psa 342.. been on zoladex(Lupron) and abiraterone for nearly 4 years and just zoladex for a year before that. I am uk based.

I have been running loads since diagnosis and go to the gym for 40mins of core and a bit of weights, no trainer .

I race multi stage ultra marathons , 150 miles several times a year in the Arctic, Sahara, Cambodia, Albania,Spain .

I also have small moons now but I am stronger now than I have ever been since I was in my 20s.

It is hard to do something some days but I always say if you want it enough you will find a way.

I didn’t run that much before I was ill. So 5 years + since diagnosis and psa solid 0.1 something for the last 2 years.

Convinced that exercise and in particular impact cv fights cancer a bit, keeps body tone and strengthens bones.

I am 6 ft 3 in and after having a lazy summer , too many chips and too much beer have gone from 211 pounds to 183 from exercise, less beer , chips and bread.

I am also a lazy vegan ie at home pretty strict but when I go out I have what I want , a balance that works for me.

Start your training regime today as what are you waiting for ?

Www.makethemostofit.org

[Escudilla]

I wonder why no one uses a non-steroidal catabolic? Ursolic acid works great for me. Like others here, I work out a lot but was still losing muscle. Then I broke my wrist and ribs in a mountain biking accident and grew painful tits due to the relative inactivity. Hiking didn't replace 5 hours of hard bike riding a week. My arms got even more floppy and my potbelly got noticeably worse.

Tamoxifen fixed the boobs and slimmed down the waist, but ursolic acid is putting the muscle back on. My bench has jumped from a pathetic 95 to 160. It's not the 315 I used to rep at my peak, but it's headed in the right direction and fun to see improvement every time I walk in the gym. I feel like I'm turning back into the me I used to be, in spite of the lupron and and enzalutamide. My arms fill out my t-shirts again. Everyone's noticed that I look more robust.

Research tells me that ursolic acid is also a cancer fighter and good for my bones. Tamoxifen is supposed to be good for my bones too. Ben Williams swears by tamoxifen as a cancer fighter in his excellent book. Win-win-win!

I had my doubts before starting ursolic acid that it would ever be possible to get enough into my system due to low bioavailability, but apparently it doesn't take much. I buy the big bottles from AST on Amazon. It works for me!

[Escudilla in reply to Escudilla]

Did I say catabolic? I meant anabolic. I'm going the wrong direction again.

[JimVanHorn]

I am confused. Orchiectomy is the removal of the testicles. I assume you believe that the testes are the only place were Testosterone is produced in the body. It is also produced (along with Dihydro-testosterone) in the adrenal medullas on the top of the kidneys. This where adrenaline is formed. Adrenaline is excreted when you have fear. Lupron stops the production of Testosterone all over the body as long as you are not resistant to it. I had PCa for eleven years and stayed on Lupron for 6 /2 years. I no longer have cancer, but I do have my testes! I can have orgasms and erections, but no ejaculate comes out. I am 74 years old and grateful for Lupron!

[Currumpaw]

Hey Cancerwarrior1!

Message my friend, addicted2cycling.

He is perhaps the best source of info you can find about part of your question.

Just remember orchiectomy isn't a reversible decision.

Schwah had some good info.

Currumpaw

[Break60]

You need a new MO who understands the benefits of estradiol patches. He’s old school. But one way or another low T means inability to grow muscle so you need to do weight work as you’ve been doing. Estradiol has none of the lousy side effects of standard ADT except gynecomastia.

[VictoryPC]

Just don't do Lupron more that 18 months straight or it likely stops workings and develops CRPC. I have seen it in about 500 guys.

[Hidden]

Dear Sir . I was 53 when dxed 3-15 stage#4 gl.4+4.horse out of the barn I was told... Non op . I was also told that I’d be on adt for life . I’ve never like shots . My Specialist had me wait for one year to do orchiectomy . I waited foe a year and a half .. . It was a great day to rid myself of Lupron shots . I’m went into remission after 8 weeks RT and double adt . I’m still on a pill form of adt . But no more shots . I think cv issues are increased with Lupron . I got completely zapped with rt and double adt . It worked on the pc but im still dealing with all of the side effects ... strength is in a limited capacity . Weak , castrated,but i still get some love from this ol world . Do what’s right for you ...

[Hidden]

Just asked my doc the same question about the surgery. Not sure about the muscle part but you still need the drugs to stop the testosterone made in other places than the testicles.