Amelioration of ADT Brain Smog

[PhilipSZacarias]

I have been on ADT continuously since February 2016 and in general I have tolerated Lupron (in my case) fairly well. The hot flashes have diminished in frequency and intensity over time. I have found that exercise, keeping cool by not over dressing and maintaining a positive state of mind have helped. Recently, though, I started experiencing more periods of brain fog, more difficulty with concentration, staying on task and retaining information. This was a cause for concern because I felt that these symptoms would compromise my QOL and importantly my ability to follow and stay on top of the literature on PCa.

Shortly after diagnosis I obtained a prescription for medical marijuana to improve appetite, reduce anxiety and for what I thought at the time were potential anti-cancer benefits; and CBD was reputed to help prevent or reduce neuropathy at the extremities during chemotherapy (I had none at 300 mf of CBD). I have since come to the conclusion that THC and CBD have little anti-cancer effect because it is difficult to achieve a potentially therapeutic concentration in the blood for either compound due to rapid metabolism by the liver, and in the case of THC no one wants to be stoned 24 hours a day (with the exception of perhaps a few).

Last year I came across an interesting paper in Nature Medicine which described the effects of low dose THC on the development and function of young and old mouse brains. Low dosages of THC impaired the development and function of young brains (a good reason to prevent teenagers from over using marijuana), but improved the cognitive function of older mice to a level equivalent to younger mice.

“A chronic low dose of Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) restores cognitive function in old mice”

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/284...

This paper inspired me to run an informal trial to see if low dose THC improves cognitive function in humans. I had some THC left over from previous use so for the last month I have been taking 0.15 ml of a 25 mg/ml THC in a medium chain triglyceride oil (=3.75 mg/ml) every other day at bedtime (only) and have found the following:

1. Better quality of sleep, even on off days

2. Better concentration and time on task

3. Less anxious, more relaxed

4. No apparent brain fog

5. Better memory recall

It should be noted that a concentration of 3.75 mg/d is significantly lower than the dosage used in the aforementioned paper (when converted to equivalent human dosages).

I believe it would be useful to run a formal trial comparing four groups of men on ADT, one group would be the control group and the other three groups would take 2, 4 and 6 mg per day, respectively, at bedtime. The trials would include self reporting, filling out questionnaires and recognized cognition tests. Perhaps researchers who have an interest in ADT and its side effects may be interested in conducting such a trial. If members of this forum know of doctors in the field, please forward their names.

Cheers,

Philip

P.S. I purposely, substituted smog for fog

[AlanMeyer]

That's a terrific post you've made. Thanks.

My sense of what goes on in medical research is that the researchers concentrate on a particular subject, for example a particular type of cancer, and a particular area of interest, like hormonal therapy, chemotherapy, immunotherapy, etc., and typically on sub specialties within those fields. They develop a lot of expertise in their particular areas and don't try to do research in other areas where they don't know nearly as much. Therefore, the best hope of interesting someone in trying your very interesting cannabis trial is to find researchers who are already working in this area.

An obvious good place to start is with the authors of the article you cite, and possibly in the authors of some of the articles they cite in their article. The full article costs money, but the abstract and quite a bit of other information is available at: nature.com/articles/nm.4311 That web page has a link to email the "corresponding author", which might be an excellent place to start. There are also sections on references and other good stuff in the menu on the right side of the page.

Thanks again for posting this and best of luck on your quest for more research.

Alan

[PhilipSZacarias in reply to AlanMeyer]

Thank you Alan. I can send the article if you need a copy.

[AlanMeyer]

Another thing to consider is the cost of a trial. A trial with humans is a lot more expensive than a trial with mice. There are many regulations that must be observed when trying drugs on humans, and there are costs associated with getting approvals, bringing other institutions on board (if the subjects can't all be recruited at one location) recruiting the humans, following up with them, publishing the results, and so on. The obvious source for funding is the marijuana growing and distributing companies - but of course there are conflict of interest issues that may contaminate the results.

Here too, the scientists who published the article you cite, and related articles, had to get money for their mouse studies and so they will know something about where funds might be available. That adds to the reasons for contacting them to try to get started.

You might be able to give them a little incentive by pointing out that you are a member of an organization with 8,931 members (as of today) consisting of prostate cancer patients or their friends and family members. A great many of them, probably a good majority, are on androgen deprivation therapy and dealing with issues of brain fog. You can help them recruit subjects for the trial. This may not be as great for recruiting people in Germany or Israel, where the authors of your cited study are, but they may have contacts in England or the US who would be interested in actually running the tests.

Again, best of luck.

Alan

[PhilipSZacarias in reply to AlanMeyer]

Thank you for your excellent suggestions. Contacting potentially interested parties will be one of my winter projects. I was also going to contact Dr. Richard Wasserug who wrote a book about ADT and managing the side effects (amazon.ca/Androgen-Deprivat.... Cheers, Phil

[2dee]

I chose to try CBD and separately THC primarily for extreme pain help.

Over time I adjusted dosage of each seeking the minimum required to reach tolerable pain.

Currently that is 100-200mg daily of CBD and 25-45mg of THC daily on a 6 hr schedule.

I believe that Lupron ADT is affecting my brain, cognitive perception, etc.

I can't judge that these doses are helping my brain though.

2Dee

[PhilipSZacarias in reply to 2dee]

Hello 2dee, thank you for the feedback. Have you been able to reduce the dosage of NSAID or opiate painkillers by taking CBD and THC? Cheers, Phil

[2dee in reply to PhilipSZacarias]

YES. Through the substitution of CBD, IN MY CASE, I was able to reduce from 8+ Norco a day (which never seemed like enough because just the opiates did not treat all of MY pain), down to 2 Norco a day. I've tried a number of times to drop to 1 or 0 Norco but portions of my pain seem to only be helped by some opiate.

My judgement is that MY pain has at least 4 or more separate causes. It takes ME 4 separate therapies to achieve any kind of overall pain reduction down to barely tolerable.

Consistent scheduled treatment works best. AS NEEDED never seems to work for ME.

Every 6hrs I judge my pain level and then slightly adjust that treatment by a few drops of CBD or a THC lozenge.

I've been doing this process for over a year with the goal of defining variable MINIMUM treatment for ME.

If I am unable to meet this somewhat strict schedule I very quickly experience pain elevation so I feel I am close to MY goal. This is MY continuous test of MY evolving choices.

2Dee

[PhilipSZacarias in reply to 2dee]

I hope more people read your post - well stated. A friend of mine followed a similar regimen.

Cannabinoids are rapidly metabolized by the liver and it difficult to achieve a therapeutic effect with respect to slowing progression.

Have you noticed changes in PSA slope or doubling time? Some people report drops in blood pressure. Cheers, Phil

[2dee in reply to PhilipSZacarias]

No recent effects.

PSA down from Dx at 1300+ Jun 2018 to generally between 1 and 2, for about a year. Last PSA jumped about a point to 2.8. In all this time I don't feel any cannabis product affected any curative process. They just help with about 70% of MY pain.

2Dee

[2dee in reply to PhilipSZacarias]

BTW I had NO prior recreational drug experience in my 77 years. I get NO "high" or any other noticeable side effects from my 25-45mg daily of THC 5mg lozenges.

I can't judge that it helps fight anything except MY pain. I've read lots of stories about "cures" but I can't say it's curing me in any measurable way as yet. But it does measurably help MY head pain.

2Dee

[AlanMeyer in reply to 2dee]

It sounds like you've been fighting agonizing pain for a long time. I admire your courage and determination to struggle on. I'm glad you're getting at least some relief from the CBD and THC.

Best of luck to you.

Alan

[j-o-h-n]

I couldn't understand your post.....maybe cause I was watching cartoons....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 11/15/2019 6:40 PM EST

[PhilipSZacarias in reply to j-o-h-n]

Lol. Which one, Road Runner?

[j-o-h-n in reply to PhilipSZacarias]

beep! beep!

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 11/16/2019 12:06 AM EST

[monte1111 in reply to j-o-h-n]

Ready, set, zoom! Wile E. Coyote---Genius.