I was on a flight this afternoon & read this book by Jane Mclelland a stage IV cervical cancer survivor who with sheer grit & experimenting with old world drugs like metformin & statins has managed to achieve remission .
I often read about the use of metformin & statins on this forum but I am curious to know if anyone follows this lady’s protocol? Apparently the Care oncology clinic now prescribes a similar protocol. One of the founders of this clinic was an oncologist who in fact clashed with Ms. Mclelland when she tried to advocate it for a friend.
Does anyone know if any of this is legit? Does it work for prostate cancer. My husband is currently stable & on ADT ( Lupron) itching to get off it after more than two years & I am absolutely wracked with fear & cant stop thinking of the what if ?
His history dxed in 2019 , Gleason 7 (3+4) PSA 5.2 .RALP soon followed negative margins but PNI present. Urologist said its very common .& not to worry too much. Now i know its a symptom of aggressiveness. PSA after RALP nadired at 0.05 & rose to 0.09 in 4 months then 0.23 in 8 months. At 9 months PSMA Pet scan was done which showed take up on the prostate bed & a suspicious spot on T10. (Suv 6.5). 37 sessions of radiation followed with SBRT to the spot which the oncologist said may /may not be cancer. Lupron was started just before the radiation. His PSA has been a stable <0.04 ever sincd.
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sandystarfish
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I don't know that there is anything wrong with incorporating some of the concepts from that book (or others) into a treatment protocol, but to assume that will work by REPLACING conventional care, for any and all cancers, would be a great leap of faith that has no sound scientific basis.
That does not mean your husband cannot take a break from Lupron. But perhaps start a new thread, detailing his history, that asks about the pros and cons of stopping hormonal therapy, or switching meds, in his situation.
There are many off-label drugs and dietary changes and supplements that MIGHT be of help in slowing PC progression or making it less aggressive. But do not count on these working for everyone (or even for many at all) just because they make sense mechanistically or APPEAR to have worked for certain individuals.
At some point, the balance of QoL vs. treatment side effects must be weighed, and that is an individual and subjective choice. One should not ignore the potential risks that come with unproven therapies that offer better QoL. But if the risks are acceptable to a person who is realistic about them, at least he is not deluding himself with false hopes when he chooses a different path.
I have been on the COC protocol for almost 4 years ALONG with SOC treatments. I can't say if it has been beneficial or not, time will tell. Just another tool in the shed as I see it.
Someone came here asking a legit question about large lifestyle changes and whether they are beneficial, and you link a bbc article about a shaman and another with the definition for words like “technobabble”?
You may be here answering questions for people who are desperate, but you also go out of your way to be rude and offensive when it suites you. It’s a reasonable question to ask about a popular book and if anyone has done the regimen. It’s not like she came on here saying she wanted to stop all drugs and replace it with a no-sugar diet.
sandystarfish- I would recommend making the lifestyle changes that make sense to you and your husbands life. What we feed our bodies matters, but it’s unclear how much it matters. My thinking, personally, is that if a diet and supplements such as the ones in that book (which I read and then discarded) were that effective, then it would be well known and have success stories. There are plenty of people with late stage cancer who have tried this regimen, and yet we don’t hear about it’s success. Just my two cents.
The only way to counter the deluge of misinformation is to show why it is misinformation. I wrote nothing that was rude or offensive. People who are desperate (whether those who take McClelland's book seriously, Steve Jobs, or a Norwegian princess) will latch on to anything that "sounds good." The best anyone can do is to show why the information is wrong. If you don't agree with my approach, don't read my posts.
I would like to offer my support to Tall Allen on this. he is a veritable mine of information and has a fantastic grasp on what is proven scientifically. He writes very directly and none of us should take offence - that is his straightforward style.
When we move beyond what is scientifically proven we are in a no-mans land which includes things which may in the future be proven, are unproven opinions but are not harmful - re lots of diet related stuff, and things which are proven to be harmful - for example over dependence on certain supplements.
We all move in this unproven area at our own peril - but please guys, and carers, do what you feel for in addition to SOC and not as a replacement. And dicuss with your MO about what you want to do.
Thanks so much for your posts, especially for the article on "pseudoscience"! As a retired college professor (Engineering. and later Business), I wish that article was mandatory reading for every entering college freshman in every discipline (or maybe every high school senior). I believe we would have a more enlightened US population. Thanks for your efforts in helping to keep this forum grounded. I am a patient who has been fighting this PC battle for 14 years, and your presence on this forum has certainly made a positive difference in my life. THANKS!
"There are plenty of people with late stage cancer who have tried this regimen, and yet we don’t hear about it’s success.".......there is an obvious answer to this statement. Nutrition is vitally important for everybody, and having stage 4 PC with distant mets, I try to keep my weight between 180-190lbs, but what is keeping the mets dormant is Erleada and Lupron, and nothing else.
Apparently- the husband/ shaman, believes he rose from the dead and claims to have predicted 9/11. I wish the Princess- lots of good luck. She is going to need it.
If they were not sure if the questionable spot on t10 was actually a met, and your husband is approaching 2 years on Lupron after radiation to the prostate bed, you may be worrying over nothing.
It seems they were trying to cure him, or start a very long remission.
It may have worked! You will not know until the lupron wears off (i am assuming it will soon stop).
if there are other things you want to try outside SOC, based anecdotally on other peoples experiences, just know they are not proven in a purely scientific sense to eliminate any remaining pca cells.
If those things help with his health generally, and it also emotionally gives you a feeling of control, there is no harm.
I might add that there are a fair number of people that do not tolerate statins very well. My neighbor has had a horrible time with statins.
Thank you for your reply . Thats his belief that he is most likely cured or at least the beast is asleep for a long time . I was just intrigued about the book & came here to ask if anyone had followed the protocol & succeeded. My husband a former investment banker & type A new york personality is the last person to follow alternative treatments . He trusts his oncologist implicitly. Its me & my mind thats in a constant state of panic for i not only have him to care for but my 91 year old ma in law also lives with us . We are retired in Malaysia & we dont have access to clinic trials & the like . Anyway thanks for all your replies .
Hi We read the book and looked into it. There was not enough evidence of helping prostate cancer. Some of the ideas are easy to incorporate but the author had various genetic tests and information about what her cancer expressed etc. We found it v hard to get that kind of information. If spectacular remission stories were coming out of following this protocol for PCa we might have given it a go. Anything that works is fine - whether it comes from SOC or thinking out of the box. That said, I did my research into it 2 years ago.
He's very weak so it's getting hard to put on clothes though he does so the pain is pure exhaustion of his entire body . Would whey protein help him at all if not in pt . He wants so badly to go there but I told him can we please have them come to his house bc I have three years of atrophy and I don't have his illness awould you suggest bat therapy if the study that's added six plus months of chemo but also life .. idk he seems to innately know he can't continue with trial but he has not found anything to replace it and he is in limbo scared and mostly sleeping .
Please don’t go down that rabbit hole. You/we cannot starve cancer. It is an untenable approach. Investigate adjuncts to SOC carefully, weighing possible risks vs marginal benefits. Look for the research. So much linked and easy to access. Not the weight of opinions.
For example, Metformin has some beneficial effects on metabolism, especially for metabolic syndrome and pre-diabetes. But no effect on PC progression has been demonstrated, unfortunately. But is a very safe drug.
Statins are very effective for improving lipids and reducing cardiovascular risks. (Cholesterol, LDL-C, ApoB). That can make a huge difference in long term survival. ADT increases risks for ASCVD. And risks for statins are low for most. There is soft evidence for some benefit in APC, probably due to the associated anti-inflammatory effects of statins. But it does not “starve” the cancer of fats in any way. All of our cells contain, and can make, cholesterol and cancer cells are no exception. Paul/MB
McLelland doesnt advocate only doing her program. She tries to block pathways but never said she has a cancer cure. Its all about slowing things down, buying time to use other means. I asked our oncologist about fasting and she said that cancer patients cannot eat towards the end and it doesnt cure the cancer. I ended the conversation there because I can tell when Im talked down to. There are studies about fasting already but not absolute proof. We cant always wait for proof because time is too precious. We can take reasonable ,educated chances that can be quite beneficial without being so rigid.
Ty I have to look up that word bc I don't know what it means . Can you please look at my new post in case I didn't make things clear . Tysn fir answering . I appreciate you. Keep rocking my friend
Im trying to follow her protocol with my husband ,not instead of traditional medicine, but in addition to it. My goal is to prolong the time he remains sensitive to ADT and buy us time until hopefully regular medicine finds a cure. On the very least Im hoping it will just buy us time. I dont think it will replace other treatments.
We were just talking about Jane's book a few days ago...Pickle is right, search it and continue to read read read. Research the off label drugs and incorporate. No one can tell you or your husband what is right for you...good luck!
I read it 2.5 years ago. I follow a fair amount of what she advocated, but I also do SOC treatment. I also follow the Joe Tippens protocol and other things. But again, I do SOC treatment along with it.
Thank you to everyone who took the time to reply to my question. I wanted to know what this helpful & supportive community thought before I set out to badger my significant other to follow this path. He continues with the conventional treatments & long may the beast be asleep this I pray.
Taking a stand against our outstanding athletes being role models could be more unpopular than Jane's opinions. And downright dangerous to you. CAUTION!
Hi Sandy, After surgery my PSA crept up very slowly and I had radiation 10 years later. Everything was quiet for a bit and I missed a test and then my PSA was 260 with various mets. I went on Degarelix for 6 months and then switched to Eligard and added Abiraterone and 5 mg Prednisone. After a year my PSA was 0.10. So it's a very aggressive cancer but very hormone dependent. After 6 months at the low PSA, I went off the cancer drugs completely in May 2022. This was in consultation with UCSF. After 6 months off the ADT drugs my PSA is 2.63. The absolute number isn't very concerning but the rate of growth is considerable. Now we are looking at when to restart the drugs. There are various theory considerations about whether the cancer is evolving around the ADT. But the theory is that I can get away with cycling on and off. Also new treatments are supposed to be coming in, so there is a point in surviving even if the treatment side effects are difficult. There are so many different studies that it's hard for professionals to keep up. I'm not a candidate for immunotherapy but promising new treatments are developing all the time. My UCSF meetings are good because the oncologist is so well informed. So perhaps your guy doesn't need to rely on alternative treatments, whichI too have tried without much success.
Just want to dispel the myth that you need to do unproven "treatments" in addition to SOC "just in case". You don't.
We only need proven, SOC treatments, that's it. The pseudoscience is fine for people whose lives aren't at risk from advanced cancer. Those are usually the people on the forum who promote nonsense like Jane Mclelland's book.
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