I know that BIRM kills cancer cells in the lab and in rats. So does apple peel, lycopene, green tea, pomegranate and many other compounds.
I also know that an immediate rise (flash)in PSA can indicate cell death as the dead cells exit the body. I also know we are all different with 29 plus cell lines per U of Michigan.
BIRM is expensive. Does anyone have long term (multiple month) experience with BIRM lowering their PSA.
FYI the BIRM rat study on NIH is from 2003. Seems like someone would have taken to the next level in 15 years.
Written by
louschu
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
i did google BIRM and Miami and saw the research. Its interesting enough to keep me taking it but still really back roomish and short on human research.
I love you guys..
I lived in Miami many many years, actually Miami Beach, too much humidity, please excuse any thoughts there.
Unfortunately, apple peel, lycopene, green tea, pomegranate and many other compounds may not be found to kill cancer cells if these things are eaten, even though sumwun@sumwear.com.xy has found that cancer cells die in a test tube when you pour in liquified samples of the above listed products.
For example, delivering lycopene extracted from tomatoes to the blood flow into cancer cells is somewhat difficult, and may be very different to eating lots of tomatoes, and maybe lycopene might have some effect on Pca, and you'd think sumwun has prepared irrefutable evidence. Maybe you would need to eat 40 tonnes of tomatoes per day to theoretically get enough lycopene to blood to have any effect on Pca. One has to ignore the obvious side effect of looking like Donald Trump in full bullshit mode, all puffed up and red while telling more lies.
The same applies to apple peels et all, the trouble is that the digestion interferes with active agent delivery.
Similarly, apricot kernels, aka bitter almonds, ( or apple seeds ) have amydalin molecule which is cyanide+benzaldride+glucose and there's about 1mg per bitter almond, ( or per apple if you chew the seeds ). Leatrile was a name given to amygdalin extract and in1950s Leatrile clinics sprang up
and they'd inject maybe 2,000mg, ie, 2 grams of amygdalin to a vein through canula, and many claims were made for cures of Pca and other cancers.
There was huge damage done to healthy organs and AMA banned the L clinics in 1950s. But the myth remains and ppl buy a 1kG bag of bitter almonds for $40 and eat maybe 30 almonds a day and that's about 30mg, and they pray for a cure.
The low dose is more tolerable by body, but also by cancer, and I did this for a year and the change to Psa was ZERO. Probably the kernels are best ground into powder before eating, but then how much amygdalin is broken down by digestive process? How much gets into blood stream? We need FACTS that are not fake.
And with Pca, glucose intake is very small, so any amygdalin molecule with a glucose molecule attached is absorbed by Pca cells where the cyanide part of molecule then kills the Pca cell. So even with intravenous amygdalin injected to a vein, maybe very little gets into cancer cells while most is destroyed in blood stream or goes to organs to damage them. Leatrile was in effect, early chemo for cancer, and methinks Docetaxel, with taxane derived from the Yew tree gave better results in every way. There are many ppl still quite angry about closure of Leatrile clinics. Last time I researched about this I found there may be some clinics in Mexico, and they claimed a 15% success rate, mainly for end stage patients so desperate they'll try anything, and pay anyone dressed in a white lab coat. One would think amygdalin would work best when cancer load was low, so not much would be needed, but I got no result. Probably eating say 4kg of sun dried tomatoes would also yield a ZERO outcome. If there was any beneficial truth about any of the high number of Online Quack Cures, the truth would rise to the surface and the world would rapidly rush at it to get a fix, but no such thing has occurred. Same for medical cannabis and other gunk produced by north american indigenous tribal women, or by tribes in Amazon,
or by dozens of African witch doctors.
So when considering all science practice and claims for alternative remedies I think all ppl MUST remain true to scientific principles to know whether something works and how practical it is to ensure it does, and to know what side effects might be.
BUT, I reckon that if a man with Pca could get a marrow transplant from Ms Germaine Greer then his Pca would be completely cured in 10 minutes, because even The Most Vicious form of Pca would be easily out-gunned by such outlandishly female DNA. Side effects would be definitely severe with disapearance of all male sexual organs within 1 week, and complete change to uber grumpy female personality, don't say I didn't warn you.
I like to uphold science, and flush all bullshit down the toilet.
This has nothing to do with Donald Trump so please keep your personal opinions of him out of this health issue that we're all dealing with have a good day
Thanks for the reply. I went for the substance. I've been down under. You guys started making fun of politicians well before we did.
I credit a total change in diet for holding my cancer back for at least 2 years (14 years in).
I recognize that double blind trials are seldom done on nutrients and read and try stuff based on less formal study. I was hoping someone might say something really helped them. I can say with certainty that eating more vegies, less meat and almost no crap put my cancer on hold and that taking iron supplements (free radicals) cause my psa to go up. I was hoping someone would say BIRM or anything for that matter dropped their psa or bone scans, etc.
I was 102kg in 2006, about 20kg over weight. I had not done enough exercise for previous 10 years because my knees gave constant pain before a double knee arthroscopy in 2005. But I felt so little pain in 2006 I cleaned the dust off my bicycles and began to cycle many km. I changed diet to less meat, more vegetables, and less restaurant meals. Weight went to 83kg in 6 months, and has stayed there ever since. By 2008 I was flying on the bike, nearly as fast as I was at 40, and very few ppl were faster, just those youngies in the cycling club.
Then Pca was diagnosed after Psa went > 5.0. I remained strict on diet and weight and LOW SUGAR. I tried apricot kernels and I grew some low yield Sativa cannabis and I saw no drop in Psa curve that was only able to be held low by the ADT - until 2016, when casodex had to be added, then Zytiga.
My knees got bad again and I quit all meat. Pain was minimised.
I had double TKR in Feb 2017 when Psa was being held < 1.0 with casodex. After TKR, Psa rose, I changed to Zytiga, Psa dipped, then rose, and then I had chemo from July this year. Pse just rose. Now I am on Lu177.
It is possible my diet + exercise has slowed the Pca but I cannot ever prove it. Cancer has killed a large number of "health fanatics". But hey, I ENJOYED THE BIKE, it had me feeling real well after years of being low.
I now have sudden onset of pain in a hip after no 2 Lu177 on last Friday, so I've gone back to taking prednisolone to see what happens but its possible my hips are destined to just wear out like my knees did. This is a congenital thing; some folks have no trouble with their bones, but my mother never could run anywhere, and her spine was bent very low before the died at 98.
My bones are like hers, and I got cancer genes from my dad's side of family, and nobody gets to choose their parents. One sister needed 2 hip joints at 55. Well, if I need hip joints, it might be too late because I have Pca in femurs and pelvis, and even if Pca is exterminated soon, the radiation might exclude me from getting hip surgery. So now I don't want to wreck my hips and will quit cycling until no pain develops after a short ride.
We must realize how fragile is our grip on good health.
I had to look up Germaine Greer. I found this YouTube video rather entertaining and if a blood transfusion with her would cure your PCa you might do it. At least she’s a straight talker as an old lady.
I had no intention of being political, but then the slightest humerous mention of someone's favourite politician in a public discussion group may always cause an angry reaction. I apologize if I caused mental anguish, and I promise to never mention Hilary, lest I offend all those who adore her.
Here in Australia, all our polititans are displayed in non flattering manner in daily newspaper cartoons, and some, if not many, and including our Prime Minister Scott Morrison tend to look like they have eaten far too many tomatoes while expressing views on excessive house prices, electricity bills, women's rights, greenhouse gas emissions etc.
For most of our democratic history, about half the population wants to vote out all polititians who happen to be in power at this time.
Lately, it seems these very pollies we have cannot be persuaded to allow our truly wonderful Medicare system to pay the $68,000 cost of Ra223 for reducing Pca in old men's bones. Nor can they be persuaded to change policy on Pca treatment so that men are guided to get full and free examination of their PG when Psa rises to 3.0. The threshold is presently 5.5, and many men, like myself, had Psa less than 5.5 but had a terrible and inoperable Gleason 9 that had spread. This caused expenditure by Medicare and myself to be a total of about $200,000 so far - trying to catch a horse after it has bolted.
It is by satire that our society here in Oz puts pressure on our pollies to make our lives better, and very few folks in Ausralia think that satire is rude, impolite, unacceptable etc, we just have a good chuckle at what our pollies do, or don't do. There are no riots as a result, and certainly no need to have a civil war. I would warmly invite anyone to examine Australia's history. We are not perfect; most of us know that here,
and most of us love Americans.
We can laugh at ourselves, our friends, and both sides of politics, and sometimes there are so many sides of politics, Greens, and other minor parties that we are bursting our sides with laughter and we are frightened to break a rib, and dare I say it, even when affected by this terrible Pca thingy.
Anyway, for those unfamiliar with Oz politics, Our Dear Leader Morrison
is likely to be dumped at the next federal election due in about May 2019, and because most ppl think he and his Liberal party fall short of most folks' expectations. Here, our Liberal Party is similar to the US Republican party. It is very possible the opposition leader Bill Shorten will lead a Labour Govt to power in May, and maybe, with luck, "Shorty" will allow Medicare funding for Ra223. It is the sort of thing that is an "announceable" before an election and which would lead many older Oz men to vote for him.
I see that I'd like polititians and politics to be on our side, the people's side. Nobody here openly says "make Australia great again" because most of us know we cannot, as a tiny country, be great in a huge world with giants, but what ppl here can aspire to is "make people great" and that involves good ppl to rule for us, and with us.
I can see that my demise with Pca is related to political control and decisions, so serious mention of politics and legistlation should be tolerated here. One reason I have survived to now was my inability to be easily offended. My father was the opposite, ouch, but my mother led me to the idea that reasoned argument with a smile would give me greater enjoyment of life :-).
I live in Australia, and in the National Capitol city Canberra where our Federal Parliament is located. The prevailing westerly wind direction means most of the pong from arguments in the House of Parliament is blown east and it does not disturb me.
There is not enough interesting local political or other local news to stop us falling asleep, and hardly any breathtaking news about breakthroughs in Pca treatments from anywhere. But the top-heavy news industry is in overdrive to fill our news with stories from overseas, and we are saturated with Trump stories, Brexit stories, and all manner of stuff that once upon a time we never had to put up with making us anxious, and vehemently polarised about all manner of "issues".
I shall do my utmost to never again mention here the idea of excessively high intake of tomatoes and feisty speeches from the present honourable US President.
Meanwhile, I read that another study I read said that men with Brca2 DNA mutations will not get good outcomes with CRMPca where normal first line treatment such as Docetaxel is used.
My dad died of melanoma at 60, probably young enough to avoid Pca. His mother and one of my 2 sisters died of Oa, other sister got Bca, but got remission after double mastectomy, RT and chemo, so I was wondering when my turn would come. I might guess I am riddled with all sorts of gene mutations related to reproduction organs and was destined to get Pca, something no doctors ever considered before my diagnosis that was too late.
A friend had his Pca DNA analyzed and Bca mutations were found and he was trialled with PARP inhibitors but his Psa just skyrocketed after treatment tailored to suit.
It seems to me that clinical application of high falootin theories often don't seem to work out very well. Sometimes its better not to keep reading stories about Pca fixes that really have only 1% chance of ever working out well for any man, are excessively expensive and hard to access.
After seeing a few cases where Docetaxel gave such a poor result I was eagle eyed when I tried it, and I quit it after 5 shots because Psa went from 12 to 45 in 3 months. I hope I get a better outcome from Lu177.
My friend is hoping to access a trial of Lu177 at PeterMac in Melbourne,
and its Lu177 with added therapy, and he mentioned keytruda would be used. Researchers are trying to hot up the Lu177 treatment with other therapies to get a better outcome for more men. With luck, I might live long enough to get a benefit of such research. But if he gets these treatments it has to act fast enough to beat the speed of Pca progression.
It takes considerable effort to try to understand what is available and where it is available and just be there for it in time.
Docetaxel helped me but that was 5 years ago. I just finished 4 rounds of Lu177 without hormones and held steady. Hoping for two more rounds with hormones to shrink the target size. No one has mentioned Keytruda. I think its more effective with a gene defect that I don't have.
I failed surgery in 2005 so hang in there. I still eat very carefully, spend a lot of time on my bicycle and take a couple supplements. U of Michigan says there are 29 types of PC and most of us have several. Explains why some things work some of the time.
I am taking BIRM but its bloody expensive and tastes like crap. Going back on hormones makes it difficult to tell if it helps so I will stay on it for 3-4 months, then decide.
I'm not very political and fondly remember when folks discussed differences and moved on.
I dare not stop ADT. Its not doing much, but I don't want to allow any slight increase of testo to Pca. So you plan two more shots of LU177 after your 4 so far. I know one man who had 7, and in Germany there has been up to 10.
Methinks it depends on what your PsMa avidity is. If the Psma Ga68 scans show up the mets clearly, then the Lu177 ligand will bind Lu177 to the mets. Anyway, you'd know about that I guess.
Use of ketruda with Lu177 is only something I have heard about from a friend who is a patient in a hospital in Victoria ( in Australia ), where serious research is done. The ketruda is an immune system altering chemical. I searched websites for the hospital for mention of Lu77 + ketruda and found nothing, but my friend said it won't begin until late this month, ie, after the research doctors and many other staffers come back from their summer vacation.
For those who have forgotten what BIRM is, its here,
Its a plant derived chemical maybe a kinda like taxane derived from European Yew tree. Plenty of Yew trees were planted in grave yards in England so they would not be cut down during England's rapid deforestation after middle ages. The Yew tree wood is very good for a long bow, and many battles were won with it, using thousands of archers. Alas, the Yew tree sap is not so wonderful killing Pca cells.
I do not know the common name of the plant or tree from which BIRM is derived.
I hope you get a good result despite the disgusting taste of BIRM.
I was brought up with 2 sisters and mum was firm, fair, and a good mother and an intermediary between us 3 kids and dad, who was never able to discuss emotions, and never said the word "love" to any of us except just before he died when he finally admitted he loved mum.
"Be a man!!!" was about all I got.
But he was vet in his own business, and also became an alderman then Mayor for many years in the local council. He could throw dreadful temper tantrums, and used corporal punishment on all of us, sometimes on grandma and mum. But despite his flaws, he paid the bills of raising us, and there were plenty of arguments at dinner time when we all sat around the table every night, but nobody ended up hurt, although on maybe one or two nights one of my sisters was commanded to "go to your room!", and off she went.
I was youngest, and tended to spout bullshit which dad corrected every time. He knew more than me until I probably knew more than him.
I got a carpenters apprenticeship with an old building company and I was directed by other men of my dad's generation. Most had placid dispositions, and because I was similar, conscientious, able to ask questions, I gladly learnt from these elders for whom I had great respect. They prevented me making many mistakes. They told me WHY they did things. There were various political beliefs discussed in the lunch time shed, and these varied from rabid right wing deep blue, to rabid left wing bright red communists.
All these discussions were peaceful, and I began to see what democracy was about, with all its unresolved differences, and how governments and polititians used their power, or mis-used it. So from an early age, my favourite dinner table subjects were sex, politics and religion, and money, and other dinner party destroying things. I could not stick to the weather, football or cricket results, which I found boring. We were all healthy, and serious illness was 50 years away, unless you got a dose of VD and then you never told nobody except a doctor or nurse, with reluctance.
There are no dinner parties, ppl remain uninformed by those important ppl who disagree with us; I think they are necessary for us to find truth.
I very much understand how much society has become polarized these days, and we all seem to invent the idea of us, and them, and we are OK and they are all arsoles. But there is so much fundamental inequality amoung individuals that almost nobody agrees with anyone else. This leads to the ppl with money making sure the poor stay poor so they get rich, and the poor not willing to join unions to lift their wages and suffer the pain of the fight between capital and labour. Both groups have reasons to fight for what they want, and both groups can't get enough dough - this is a common fact between waring factions, but it keeps the groups apart. Its being going on since there were 3 adult men about 200,000 years ago arguing about who gets what after one spears an antelope for dinner.
I have at times been told to get cancer and die in a discussion group about electronics and I was last man to leave the un-moderated group when it folded 10 years ago due to the trolls. Maybe 200 were in group at its peak, and one troll found I'd written more than everyone else over the 13 year life of group, and then I wrote a 60MB website to answer most questions I got. He had no website, and he could not disagree with anything at my website, despite his high amount of knowledge. it I converted 2 trolls to being friendly. I did not have to make a post, "well I now do have cancer, just like you asked me to get, so when do ya want me to die". I never got upset. I would advise ppl on construction of flame proof suits when engaging trolls to dismember their arguments. Sticks and stones might break my bones but words will never hurt me. Oh, but now I have Pca, and yeah, it is breakin my bones. So I share that experience too.
I loved friends who told me where I was wrong over dinner. If they were right, like I was when they were wrong, life became better. We need to explore difficult terrain.
One of my life's disappointments is that women would not confer deeply, then just leave.
We are all launched into our new year, and I hope all goes well for all of you.
Sorry for the long reply. I get obsessed then have to get away from the PC stuff. Still working on round 5. The sale to Novartis is complicating things.
Our Dear Germaine once posed for a picture on the front cover of Sydney Universities's paper, Honi Soit, it was called, in about 1962. She was naked, young, sitting on floor, and everyone could see all her bits. It was deemed to be The Most Repulsive picture of "sheela with pussy" that had ever been taken, and somehow it was a kind of feminist response to those found seen in magazines for men, Playboy, Penthouse et all. We all loved such publications which brought us serious political and other intellectual discussions while at the same time allowed us the bliss of imagining we were with beautiful angels, mostly made in USA, which led to private exercizes of our prostate glands. Fortunately, nobody took too much notice of Germaine who had even less succesful relationships than I had where I upheld womens rights to the letter, but I made the misguided mistake of expecting the duty of care that seemed to me to be attached to every right. Over time, I kept prostate exercize with its raptures to a minimum, and some said I should have done something more often, and that led to Pca but I don't agree with that idea either :-).
Something to remember is that a double blind study is not necessary for scientific activity to occur. Many people have slowed cancer growth thorough eating certain kind of foods. Just because they weren't party of a scientist study or examination by scientists does not mean none of their success at beating the averages was due to ingesting anti-cancer foods and/or supplements. And in the process of eating these foods must people receive the benefits for their heart and other organs, as well as inceased energy levels.
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
BIRM
SRT: To BIRM or not to BIRM
BIRM update
