BIRM- a tincture source

[arete1105]

Does this look like a viable source of the benefits of BIRM in tincture form?

BIRM is an aqueous extract of dried roots of an Ecuadorian medicinal plant, Kalanchoi gastonis-bonnieri. BIRM is extensively used in Western Hemisphere mainly as Herbal immune booster, as by the manufacturer (Ecua-BIRM Inc., Quito, EC and on their website [WWW.EcuaBIRM.Com]. In addition, as per the manufacturer of BIRM, this product has been dispensed as a complementary medicine for ailments such as AIDS, lupus, arthritis related psoriasis and various treatment-refractory cancers. However, the mechanism of BIRM action and whether it is a cancer chemopreventative is unknown. We previously reported anti-tumor activity of BIRM against prostate cancer models, and have shown that it inhibits proliferation of all PCa cells, induces apoptosis and inhibits extracellular matrix (ECM) degrading enzyme, hyaluronidase [18]. Further, we showed that BIRM inhibits tumor growth and metastasis of Dunning MAT LyLu rat prostate tumor with no observable adverse effect. The mechanism of BIRM inhibitory activity against PCa, both in vitro and in vivo, has opened a new avenue for us to investigate the mechanism of anti-tumor activities of BIRM.

Kalanchoi gastonis-bonnieri. tropilab.com/kalanpinnatati...

The Bufadienolides in the leaves have antibacterial, antitumorous, cancer preventative, and insecticidal actions. These isolated compounds isolated include bryophillin A which showed strong anti-tumor promoting activity, also included are bersaldegenin-3-acetate and bryophillin C.

Bryophyllin compounds have marked anticancer therapeutic value against cancer cells. Bersaldegenin-1, 3, 5-orthoacetate inhibited cancer cell growth on several cancer lines.

[cesanon]

Did you know that:

(a) there is no way to verify what is or is not in any particular batch of "BIRM" aka "Gator Juice"

(b) what testing has been allegedly done, is claimed to have been done in test tubes without the BIRM having altered on its way through the stomach's acids and digestive juices, the digestive system or the blood system.

(c) to my knowledge what testing that has been allegedly done, has never been reproduced, by any independent party or published in any peer-reviewed journal,

(d) without knowing exactly what the constituents that were allegedly tested are, it is not possible to reproduce the testing, is it

Don't believe everything you read on the internets. LOL

Do you have the name of one licensed oncologist in the U.S. who supports the use of BIRM for the treatment of cancer? Just one... by name and institution, please.

Thank you

PS: "Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them." healthunlocked.com

[arete1105 in reply to cesanon]

Here is where I am going with this topic- it is really about Kaloanchoi pinnata.

BIRM comes from the plant Kalanchoi gastonis-bonnieri. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

There are three plants that belong to this group called Kalanchoe:

1-Kalanchoe-daigremontiana

2-Kdalanchoe-gastonis

3-Kalanchoe-pinnata.

dolcarevolucio.cat/language...

One of the constituents of the kalanchoe-pinnata is bufadienolides which has the following effect on cancer: Pharmacology

The Bufadienolides in the leaves have antibacterial, antitumorous, cancer preventative, and insecticidal actions. These isolated compounds isolated include bryophillin A which showed strong anti-tumor promoting activity, also included are bersaldegenin-3-acetate and bryophillin C.

Bryophyllin compounds have marked anticancer therapeutic value against cancer cells. Bersaldegenin-1, 3, 5-orthoacetate inhibited cancer cell growth on several cancer lines.

tropilab.com/kalanpinnatati...

References:

"The above presentation is for informational and educational purposes only.

It is based on scientific studies (human, animal, or in vitro), clinical experience, or traditional usage."

herbpathy.com/Uses-and-Bene...

bimbima.com/ayurveda/medici...

cancerending.blogspot.com/2...

scialert.net/fulltextmobile...

[cesanon in reply to arete1105]

"It is based on scientific studies (human, animal, or in vitro), clinical experience, "

What clinical experience? What human studies?

Looks more like it is exclusively supported by the internet echo chamber.

Real pharma companies have to chase down thousands of leads like this to find one drug that is actually useful. It is statistically unlikely that this is one of those few winners.

[Don1157 in reply to arete1105]

Well they moved up to Mice and the test tube! Nothing in humans. I have never seen an article like that before, such a big advertisement.

[arete1105 in reply to Don1157]

check out this study: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Don1157 in reply to arete1105]

Again, mice or Petri dish. No human model or method to test.

[arete1105 in reply to Don1157]

Correct- no double blind or random test. This is a plant and no company is going to invest in a natural. They did take human prostate cancer cells and treated them with the plant and got positive results.

[arete1105 in reply to arete1105]

I have decided to check this product out. Father Romano Zago wrote a book called Cancer Can be Cured. It is all about that plant and how to ingest it as well as how to grow it at home. Will update as needed.

[ITCandy in reply to arete1105]

Father Romano Zago's book is all about the healing properties of the Aloe Arborescens plant. Looking forward to your updates on this.

[Lombardi24 in reply to cesanon]

And when your slowly dying from metastatic prostate cancer...what the HELL does one have to lose trying anything. The alternative is to just stick with chemo as IT slowly kills you as well. Seriously. If they did some research...got positive results...👍👍👍. An oncologist is not going to approve of anything not covered under standard of care regardless of the research. So...be my guest. Wait it out. Something should come along after years of trials and final FDA approval that will end up working for a month or two before the cancer is back again. Ugh. It's the hope factor that is important here plus the birm gives you energy and anyone on lupron would be grateful for that.

[cesanon in reply to Lombardi24]

Lombardi

Unfortunately this is exactly why quack cures have such a long and illustrious history.

It is also the reason they do double blind research with placebos.

What may seem to be so, often is not.

[gusgold]

The fact is tons of chemicals have actions against cancer in test tubes and petri dishes..the problem is to deliver enough of the compound to the tumor cells to have and effect and not kill the subject...your article lists insecticide as of of its uses...my bet is Raid would kill cancer cells....Raid...Kills bugs dead and also effective against PCa..just take one tablespoon full 3 times a day

[arete1105 in reply to gusgold]

It acts as an insecticide from a natural product.

[j-o-h-n in reply to gusgold]

Raid? Why not a baseball bat? Hit them outta the park...

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Tuesday 12/04/2018 5:37 PM EST

[FCoffey]

Thanks for the link, its always good to have more information and more options.

Never mind the haters, it is your life and your choice. I'm constantly amazed that a so-called support group can be so vicious to its own members.

Speaking strictly for myself, I find this interesting but probably won't try it. They note that the tincture has T-suppressive flavonoids. T-cells are strongly suppressed in solid prostate tumors. A lot of research is devoted to ways to get more T-cells into the tumor. Taking something that can further suppress T cells doesn't sound like a good idea to me. A drug that can potentiate immunosuppressive drugs doesn't match what I'm trying to do with supplements.

If you do try it, please let us know about your experiences.

[arete1105 in reply to FCoffey]

This isn't about T cell suppression. It is about the plant suppressing inflammation.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/224...

Flavonoids have positive benefits for the body. Don't confuse T cell suppression with T suppression flavonoids. Google up the benefits of flavonoids. There are many and this plant has many benefits, including cancer.

[FCoffey in reply to arete1105]

That's an interesting article. It states that the flowers of Kalanchoe pinnata are potent inhibitors of T-cell mitogenesis in mouse models. Mitogenesis is the process by which a cell is induced to start dividing. An inhibitor of T-cell mitogenesis would presumably reduce the ability of T cells to reproduce.

When we are young, most of our T cells are produced in the thymus. But that gland shrinks about 3% a year during middle age, so many of us older folks with prostate cancer don't get a lot of T-cells from our thymus glands. This may be part of the reason that cancers of all kinds are more common in older people.

T cells can also be produced by cell division (mitosis) in the rest of the body, a process called peripheral T cell expansion. A potent inhibitor of T-cell mitogenesis would interfere with this process.

In inflammatory diseases like rheumatoid arthritis a hyperactive immune response is often involved. Too many or too active T cells can cause chronic inflammation instead of the acute inflammation the body normally uses to recruit cells to the site of an injury or pathogen. Anti-inflammatory agents may help in these cases.

While there is certainly inflammation in prostate cancer, and chronic inflammation of the prostate leads to epigenetic changes that promote the development of cancer, there is very strong evidence that prostate cancers are "cold" tumors, with relatively few T cells attacking the tumor. A lot of current research is directed at finding ways to increase the numbers and potency of T cells in the prostate cancer tumor.

The abstract you linked concludes by stating "Our findings show that K. pinnata flowers are a rich source of T-suppressive flavonoids that may be therapeutically useful against inflammatory diseases." Not against cancer, but against inflammatory diseases.

None of this proves that the tincture would help or hurt. It's a very complex situation. For me, the risk that this tincture would reduce the population of T cells outweighs any anti-inflammatory benefit. I'm more interested in increasing T cell numbers and ability to enter and attack the tumor.