Is there anyone else like me? Part 2

[Tormented555]

Is there anyone else out there so tormented by ADD on a regular basis that it's impossible to have any kind of self esteem beyond "I'm an incapable, incompetent loser"? Anyone out there like me, where you get so frustrated with making idiotic mistake after idiotic mistake that you just want to explode ? If so, what do you do? How do you get through life on a daily basis?

This is what it's like for me, all the time - I just went into a coffee shop, looking at the coffees - Colombian Supremo! French Roast! I'm looking for the decafs - where is the decaf? I'm studying the names carefully, maybe it's in the descriptions? "A bold nutty roast," etc - no decaf. I say to the worker, "Do you not have decaf?" "There's two of them right there on the right, with the red sticker on them."

" Oh, you mean that big red sticker that says 'decaf' on it? Of course. Of course, I'M the idiot.."

A guy sends me something on the computer, I say "I think you might have sent this wrong," he gets annoyed, "It works like this" and I say, "Yeah, I know but this is like this, so I think you might have made a mistake with this," and after this whole big stupid argumentative back and forth thing, he sends it again, and then I realize - I'm that one that screwed up in the first place. I'M the idiot. Because of course I am.

I'm always focusing on the wrong thing, looking in the wrong place, remembering everything - except that one major thing that I always forget.. no matter what, I'm always missing something. I focus here, I miss something there. Always. Always, always. Often when I set out to do something, I'll say "Ok, what am I forgetting? I don't know, I guess we'll find out!"

It's like that Seinfeld "opposites" thing -whatever I focus on, it's the wrong thing, so any time I focus on anything, I should stop and say wait, focus on the opposite thing instead..

Anyway, what happens is that, enough times of saying "That's right - I'M the idiot," and then you're just an idiot, that's your self image - incapable, incompetent, screwup. Just put it out there now, save trouble later. I told you I was a screwup ! It doesn't matter how good you are at something when you can't handle basic living. It's like a line I read in a book recently - "But she could not handle her body in a situation where there were no rules." I have skills that I'm good at, because there are rules and I've worked at it, but general living? I'm lost.. help..

Is there anyone like me? What did you do? How do you deal with it, and with life, etc ?

Thanks

[STEM_Dad]

I feel the same way, but maybe not as strongly as you do.

I credit my parents for teaching me to see myself as just human. They owned up to their own mistakes and oversights. While I was growing up, they addressed my mistakes and oversights, but they never made a big deal about them.

Many people with ADHD grow up with a lot of shame. It was almost always me who shamed myself, not my parents or grandparents, and rarely any teachers. (My peers, however...well, I'm sure you know that kids can be cruel. Since I saw that kids would call out each other, I learned to hide my own shortcomings as much as possible, and hide myself away from their scrutiny by becoming a ghost.)

~~~~~

It has been said that simply living in a neurotypical world is traumatizing for people with ADHD.

Neurotypical people actually do make the same types of mistakes that we do. Take, for example, the decaf coffee example. I will overlook things like that, and the next person will spot it right away.

I used to work in retail sales for over a decade, so I've helped thousands or tens of thousands of customers...and lots of people will miss something that's right under their nose. --- My observations are that:

• Neurotypical people will just shrug it off when they flub like that.

• People who are anxious (or appear to have ADHD) will more likely get flustered or embarrassed.

• People who seem depressed or have social anxiety will seem to withdraw into themselves out of embarrassment.

• Narcissistic people will put the blame on someone else.

That's just my observation in that one sphere. (Young children and very elderly people also seem to tilt towards one of the embarrassed behaviors.)

~~~~~

Why do things like this affect us so? Why are we also so prone to RSD?

I think it has been explained that people with ADHD tend to have an underdeveloped stress tolerance capacity.

Neurotypical people probably figure out for themselves how to tolerate stressful situations like this. We probably need help to do so.

[Tormented555 in reply to STEM_Dad]

I think the thing with neurotypical people is that they'll make mistakes once in a while, and often learn from them, which further decreases the frequency of said mistake happening to them, so they can more easily say, "Well, everyone makes mistakes." But when you're someone like me, where I feel like I make mistakes far more than "normal" people - I often think that while it makes sense in life that this will happen, or that will get screwed up, etc, it doesn't seem like it should happen THIS much.. or I think, there's no way "normal" people go through this as often as I do... Plus, there are mistakes that I just can't learn from - "next time, remember not to do this" - I feel like normal people are able to do that, whereas I can't. "Next time, remember where you put this." I can't.

[STEM_Dad in reply to Tormented555]

I can relate to that. I do seem to make mistakes a lot more than others around me, and I don't remember things as well, so I will repeat the same mistakes a lot.

The thing that I get down on myself about the most is about time: running late, starting late, not leaving enough transition time, not finishing things within the expected time, etc.

But when it comes to one-time mistakes, I'm usually a lot more lenient on myself (unless I end up paying a big penalty over it).

I try to be accepting and easy going with myself, like I would be to a friend or a child. I've accepted that I will always be like this. So I extend some grace to myself.

I still get upset with myself about something every week, or a few times a week. I just try not to be as hard on myself as I was before my ADHD diagnosis.

[Mamamichl]

this was a big thing for me. DBT therapy has been a godsend. They have me learn how to focus on accepting where I am and where I want to be. I’m still working on not reacting to these situations, but processing them and only responding after my emotions have subsided.

the book by the adhd_love couple on you tube have a book “small talk”. This is their second book about changing the negative internal monologue.

[Tormented555 in reply to Mamamichl]

I appreciate the suggestion, but.. Sounds fishy. Convincing someone through therapy that they don't hate what they hate? In my case, me? I hate myself. I hate the way I am. I hate the way I'm always screwing things up for myself needlessly. I need to learn how to stop screwing up, or at least cut back drastically, then I'll feel better. Until then I'm filled with self loathing, and no therapy is going to change that

[PinkPanda23 in reply to Tormented555]

I will point out that you torment yourself because you don't get the result you want - to not have ADHD. If that's not setting yourself up for consistent failure, it's a pretty good facsimile. You don't like any of the suggestions because they don't make it just go away. And the self-flagellation of always being wrong, hating yourself, that's a downward spiral we can ride forever.

Consider that we have this thing, it's not going away. It's in our brains, the most vital organ for life. If we are brain dead, the rest of the organism dies. So we need to do some things to help our brains limp along and even thrive in less than ideal conditions.

If medication, therapy, coaching, body doubling etc are helpful to others, why slam them down? Why not try them? Your attitude is well entrenched, and it needs to change if you are going to get any relief. Any technique that challenges negativity, guilt, shame, anger, embarrassment etc and inserts tolerance, grace, self-forgiveness should be welcomed with hope, patience and even acceptance. We sometimes like our problems too much. They give excuses to wallow and stop trying. They even give us dopamine hits from emotions!

I have tremendous empathy for your pain. But I also know the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. I choose to accept myself as is, while trying things to adapt better than I currently do. It's the grace I give myself to evolve on my own path and my own time-line. Self-loathing has no place in my life anymore. I wish the same for you.

[Mamamichl in reply to PinkPanda23]

I couldn’t have said it better myself. In my DBT, it’s called “radical acceptance”. It means to accept things the way they are because it can’t be changed. Doesn’t mean you have to be happy about it. Yes, it’s annoying, but when you hyperfixate on a negative and wallow in something you can’t control, ou are making it a bigger thing than it already is. When you do this, it makes The pain and frustration exponential compared to what it was in the first place. By hating parts of you that you can’t change, it makes ADHD symptoms worse and makes you more miserable than you need to be.

I was self loathing for a long time, and it made me a miserable person and made me constantly feel like a victim. Since I am accepting and letting things go that I can’t control, it helps me not be as emotional and make things worse. It helps me be more in control of what happens at work.

[PinkPanda23 in reply to Mamamichl]

Yes! In 12-step work, the radical acceptance is called "surrender." I had to surrender the idea that I could be like other people, what I saw as "normal" people. ADHD is part of me like blue eyes and blonde hair. It's MY normal. And once I discovered that I was not alone, it has a name, there are things I can try, it lost some of its bite, its power. I'm not built to fit into the round hole, and I stopped trying to shave my square edges to make it happen.

I have a therapy Zoom in 45 minutes. I go once a month. My therapist diagnosed me 13 years ago and has helped me arrive at acceptance. It's one of several things I do to keep from going back to self-loathing. We all have choices. I choose forward.

[CloudsAreLovely]

Sounds like you need something called DBT!!!!!! Or CBT. Try either of these things with someone whose certified ....

[CloudsAreLovely]

And also know you are not the only person who is going through things like this..... shoot last I checked 80 million people have been diagnosed with adhd world wide.....and I'm sure the numbers are rising.

[Tormented555 in reply to CloudsAreLovely]

Holy crap, what a thought. Hopefully most of them have it more like the rest of you seem to and not like me. I hate this crap so much I can't put it into words. Today, I'm cleaning up. Twice I found things that I was looking for and haven't seen in forever. Do I put them in my pocket so I can find them later? Of course not. I put them somewhere else, of course I have no idea where, so I've lost them again. That's what I do all day long, stupid idiotic things, all damn day long. I cant learn, I can't remember. Just useless

[STEM_Dad in reply to Tormented555]

We're just trying to help support and uplift you a bit.

My daily life is a grind. ADHD makes everything "life on Hard Mode."

I will admit that I often feel like I'm self-deluded by believing that life will get better. I've got to have some hope, so that I don't despair.

But, I've also seen enough good in life to know that it's not pointless. I feel like I can do at least some good, to help others...but I know that I also need some help.

That's why I'm glad this forum is here.

[Mamamichl in reply to STEM_Dad]

Indeed stemdad

[CloudsAreLovely in reply to Tormented555]

Really, I am alot like what you discribe ......the same advice I give to you is through my own trial and error...... Or I wouldn't suggest any of it. I was in an incredibly dark place because of this ADHD. Still kind of am.....not going to lie.... because of years of self conditioning/believing all the negative things I told myself. Well, my suggestion is you have unlearn what you conditioned your mind to tell yourself.....it's not working....your lying to yourself....come to the light!!! At least try it before you knock it.....it helps. I'm learning all of this thanks to this group. There's no cure but there are better ways to deal/cope!!!!I am happier even tho I always look like I have rbf. Lol. CBT/DBT is working.

[Amiwrong]

for many many years I labeled myself stupid. Therapy tried to get me to consider reasons why I wasn’t stupid. Positive self talk, blah blah. Finally, I said “look, I can tell you the reasons that back up the fact that I’m stupid and you can change the word, so it doesn’t sound so bad, but how I feel is the same”. Anyway, this was a long time before my adhd dx.

I was fixated on everything that I did that was stupid, forgetful, repetitive, etc. Then I started to share the things I did that bothered me. Not to look for understanding or anything, idk maybe it was a way to release it?? I would call my daughter into a room and say “you’re not going to believe what I just did….” She would laugh and then I would too. Doing this has helped me to accept all my mishaps.

The only thing I haven’t been able to shake off yet is my lack of knowledge about things. To even put into words the basic things that I don’t know is really embarrassing. I have always struggled with memory and social anxiety so I don’t retain things very well. That means a lot of things you learn in grade school, or things you pick up along the way about geography or politics or people of influence, I just don’t remember. I can read it over and over and it still doesn’t stick. So often I feel very embarrassed and triggered when I’m in a situation where I’m put on the spot and don’t know something that is obvious or simple to most people. They must think “how does this girl even get by in this world?” 😂

[PinkPanda23 in reply to Amiwrong]

Oh my, yes! I don't retain things unless I repeat them over and over in order to do something - like drive a car, do my job, cook etc. - or, it strikes my brain as interesting for some reason, and I have a new piece of trivia I can call up 15 years after I heard it the first time. That's why my teachers would say I wasn't performing up to my potential, because they saw me latch onto something obscure and not be able to recall something else that I was exposed to daily. Ugh. I can't tell you where a country is, or an island, but I can tell you they speak Portuguese in Brazil because I found that interesting when I learned it in grammar school and it stays with me 60 years later.

Learning I have ADHD at age 54 gave me the grace I needed to be kinder to myself and bloom where I was planted. The last 14 years have been easier just knowing it's a brain wiring issue. Life is indeed hard, but knowing why helps.

[Amiwrong in reply to PinkPanda23]

PinkPanda23 not retaining the obvious things is hard. People say it’s because if you’re not interested you are less likely to remember it, but idk because there’s things that I really want to learn, like countries, as you said. I don’t know how often I’ve studied those gosh darn maps! lol. I’m very interested in learning about my childhood trauma, but do you think I can recall what I’ve learned, what book I’m reading, what the main idea is? Nope. Notta. My IQ is average, so that’s not the issue.

I’m 50 now and was dx with adhd a few years ago. It has helped with acceptance and mostly I laugh it off. But sometimes I get triggered and embarrassed if I don’t know something obvious. It helps also to hear other people like yourself relate

[Oats_are_S_tier]

You're not stupid or a screwup, not at all. ❤

We're living in a neurotypical world and if we don't fit the standards then we're the "issue".

I feel you're frustration and doubt that spirals into such negative thoughts, and I'm still struggling accepting who I am with kindness.

Your struggles are completely valid and it can be so hard to get through the day without feeling like a "failure", we have to at least try to be kinder to ourselves and that a lot of the time seems impossible.

You're doing your absolute best, considering how much you have to endure, so please try not to say or think so low of yourself. ❤

Take care Tormented555

[AuDHD3245]

See it as funny. Have a laugh with it. Make jokes about it. Blame ADD but be comfortable with it. It's you, it's who you are. Don't live in a world where no-one makes mistakes but you, because it's not there. Nothing's perfect.

Whilst you're calling yourself an idiot for not noticing a red sticker that says de-caff, there's someone sat behind you dying of cancer. Whilst you're beating yourself up for not understanding an email, the person you're emailing has just ran 26 miles to get to work.

Is it really that bad that you make mistakes?

[MatureCreativeL]

I kind of suspect that you might have a regular learning disorder that affects your reading capabilities too. Have you tried taking any online quizzes for those kinds of learning disorders?