B12 deficiency - Low stomach acid, parietal cells, instrinic factor light bulb moment.

[auldreekie]

I have just been doing some reading after GP said intrinsic factor and parietal cell antibodies could be tested for. I am so angry no one suggested this before as I've had all of the damned symptoms of B12 deficiency for years....anyway ...

This explains why auto immune suffers can't get their B12 from their food efficiently. Intrinsic factor is produced by the parietal cells and this along with with stomach acid (low in auto immune conditions) is the mechanism required to extract B12.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

The problem here is those of us with auto immune disease don't know the miriad of things that can go wrong and we have illness creep up on us - our doctors should be completely aware of the implications of auto immune disease and watch out for all of these issues...

Sorry rant over ... had to get this off my chest.

PS the reason this illness used to be called 'Pernicious' is because people died from it until treatment was found.

[shaws]

This was the remedy before the B12 injections for pernicious anaemia.

healingnaturallybybee.com/a...

Thankfully, we now have injections.

[alchemilla in reply to shaws]

Hi

this is a different kind of anaemia - caused by iron deficiency - so liver would provide a good dose of iron. it would be no use at all in pernicious anaemia .

[shaws in reply to alchemilla]

There used to be no remedy for PA up until around 1920. It was raw liver they had to eat- I wouldn't fancy that although i like cooked liver.

This is an extract

Dr. Whipple

Before Dr. Whipple, pernicious anemia was a fatal disease. In about the year 1920, Dr. Whipple bled dogs to induce anemia and then set about to find out which foods would cause the dogs to recover the most quickly. He discovered that feeding the dogs raw liver would essentially cure the anemia. Thus, raw liver, or raw liver juice became the treatment of choice for pernicious anemia. Patients would eat at least a 1/2 pound per day!

[alchemilla in reply to shaws]

this still isnt pernicious aneamia as we understand it today - bleeding dogs to induce aneamia will only produce iron deficient anemia not pernicious anemia - i think in the1920 s there must have been a lack of understanding of the different kinds of anaemia

[helvella]

Many people with autoimmune thyroid disease have not only TPOab and/or TGab but also, as you know, GPCab and maybe IFab as well.

However, the GPCab level often falls over time and there seems to be the possibility of considerable recovery - in some people. But, of course, that does not get you over a shortfall in B12!

As you can see from this quote (and this is available to you, to me, and to every darned doctor on the planet):

9.5.7 GASTROINTESTINAL SYSTEM

The symptoms from the digestive system are essentially the expression of the slow rate at which the living machinery is turning over. Anorexia, which is common, can reasonably be interpreted as the reflection of a lowered food requirement, and constipation, which is frequently present, is the result of a lowered food intake and decreased peristaltic activity. Although two-third of patients have reported weight gain, it is of modest degree and due largely to the accumulation of fluid rather than fat. Contrary to popular belief, obesity is decidedly not a feature of hypothyroidism.

Complete achlorhydria occurs in more than half of myxedematous patients (1). As many as 25 percent of patients with myxedema, like those with Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, have circulating antibodies directed against the gastric parietal cells. This finding explains, at least in part, the frequency of achlorhydria and impaired absorption of vitamin B12. It is reported that up to 14 percent of patients with idiopathic myxedema have coincident pernicious anemia (2).

thyroidmanager.org/chapter/...

Rod

[Hidden in reply to helvella]

achlorhydria = low stomach acid, a simple explanation from wiki....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achlo...

[auldreekie]

Shaws, I understood they fed raw liver to patients but didn't understand to start with why they got better! I can stomach cooked liver occasionally but raw would be blooming impossible!

I really wish I could understand why a GP wouldn't make the conneciton when presented with a patient with AATD (sorry for the acronym - too lazy to type it out!), with exhaustion, depression, neurological symptoms. I've been complaining of these things for 8 years!! I asked three gps for theraputic trial of B12 until I found current one who said 'okay then it can do no harm!). Nearly fell off my chair! The others (and an Endo) wanted me on Prosac, HRT and /or counselling.

Helvella where did you read 'However, the GPCab level often falls over time and there seems to be the possibility of considerable recovery - in some people. But, of course, that does not get you over a shortfall in B12! ' Please?

[nightingale-56]

My Mum evidently had to have raw liver when she was expecting me.. She must have got a liking for it, as it was one of the things (cooked) we had for dinner frequently. Unfortunately we did not get a liking for it. Interesting to note my Mum suffered with Asthma since the age of 3 and eventually about 5 years before she died she had Diabetes and a year before she died had low thyroid levels, but would do nothing about it as she hated to have to go to the doctors and have her blood pressure taken. She also suffered with very bad knees but would not look further into thyrod treatment. I do wish she had as she may not have suffered so much.

[auldreekie]

I can relate to that i-bee. I don't know that introducing more liver in to the diet of someone who has the antibodies we discussed above would make any difference, as they can't absorb te B12 in gut...

I now realise my Mum had all of the same issues as me )died last year), the doctors had her on folate but on metformin, and statins too both of which block B12 - I didn't investigate why they put her on folate but that masks PA too. So all in all she didn't stand a chance of correct treatment, she also had dementia (go figure! - as the Americans say!).

I think maybe your Mum was right to stay away from doctors, sometime they dole out all of these modern drugs without knowing the implications... or they won't do anything for fear of litigation, so safer for us to remain untreated and die rather than die from anything a doctor prescribed!

Seems you have to do your own research and 'manage' the doctors!

Not synical at all!!