Whats the link between VitD and magnesium?

Have been reading a very interesting article (from someone on this site) regarding VitD/Magnesium suppliments.

According to the article you should not take VitD unless you are also taking magnesium as it can cause arrythmia problems. My reason for asking is that my arrythmia could be linked to my GP giving me high powered 50,000iu VitD suppliment in June of last year (the dates seem to tie up) and not supplimenting me with mangesium as well.

Also has anyone used Epsom salts or spray magnesium suppliment and if so how did they find it helped them.

Thanks

Moggie x

23 Replies

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  • I am not going to answer re magnesium as I am sure that others will pile in.

    But I do want to say that I am very unsure about the idea of very high doses of vitamin D - whether regarded as loading doses or whatever else. We have had a few people say that they had some degree of negative reaction.

    My choice was to start with modest levels (1200 IU a day) and work up to 4800 or 6000. Then drop back when I felt was right. If anything is going to precipitate a problem it seems more likely to be using high doses. (At the same time, there certainly are things where using too little is a bad idea.) I am not saying I was right - but I felt uncomfortable pitching straight in even at 5000 or so - let alone 50,000.

    Rod

  • Hi Rod,

    It seems that some health authorities take this route and some dont. When I questioned the high amount and short time (two weeks) it was to be taken over my GP's comment of "we find this is the best way to deal with very low levels like your's", so I did what I was told to do (silly me). I did blog on the experience, as it wasn't trouble free, but my levels went from 12.5 to 154 so the desired effect was achieved.

    Moggie x

  • Hey Moggie, yes there no point in taking vid D, without calcium and magnesium ( DR Norman, parathyroid) have a look, I havent got the page link, but google it. Also only 1 percent of magnesium is circulated in the blood, the other is in the cells, therfore the blood test is unreliable as all will be normal.

    The oil, is one of the best products to buy and Magnesium flakes, epson salts with magnesium.

    However after lots of research, on ebay at the min the oil is for 10 pounds, my orders are going in soon as well as Jarrows vitamin b12 highly reccomended, absorbed under the tongue.

    There are also fakes, so dont buy the cheap products.

    I do feel although you havent got parathyroid you will find Dr Norman explaination on vitamin D and why it is low.

    hope this helps, holland and barret sell the Magnesium oil and my friend swears by it.

    hope this helps xxx havent bought yet as I need a few products, lol try and always buy organic. The cheap vitamins are useless and give patients false hopes.

  • Hi Merissa,

    I didn't take (and dont ever take) calcium with any suppliments in due to my calcium levels being already at the top of their range. If you take calcium when its not needed, unlike B12 which your body can get rid of, excess calcium can cause all sorts of other problems such as kidney stones and blocked arteries and the more VitD you take the more calcium your body will naturally produce - thats why it is so important for people to have bloods done and not just to suppliment.

    I take the Jarrow B12 and find it works well and will be buying some epsom salts and some of the oil. There is a good magnesium suppliment on amazon which has got good reviews but not sure if this would be to much to soon.

    Thanks for the info regarding the bath salts, will now be doing a google search on what brand is best.

    Moggie x

  • Before you buy the oil have a look at this link to a brand of magnesium flakes. Someone has posted a review that on the packaging there are instructions to make your own spray.

    amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00...

    Just thought it might save on the penny's.

    Moggie x

  • Epsom salts dissolved in water can be absorbed transdermally, so that's a useful route to take if you have any issues with oral magnesium, which some people do. However, even a 15 min 'feet only' evening soak in Epsom salt solution can have me running to the loo the next morning. I don't know how some people manage a whole body bath soak in the stuff!

  • Thats something to think about - so you find just soaking your feet in Epsom salts is enough for your levels to be sufficient.

    Moggie x

  • Hi Moggie,At the risk of nasty replies, which I had last time. Vit D must not be taken without a calcium test first. Out of range calcium can be lethal as it is an electrolyte. Also because of this D needs to be increased ,if needed, at 3 monthly intervals with repeat tests. Magnesium should only be taken if out of range ( specific blood test ) It is also an electrolyte and can be lethal if out of range,tiny range.too. it also effects the potassium which is even more important. Too low can cause cardiac arrests ( sudden death, an age) if high it can cause acute renal failure. Of course if low and magnesium in range then that is fine to take magnesium. I have to take it but because on it ( script) I have to have weekly blood tests,as so dangerous.. it used to be believed that if too much magnesium taken then it was excreted, not so. of course, to take these in food is entirely different and safe.I hope this helps.

    Jackie

  • Hi Jackie,

    Can I post you a link that I have been reading regarding how VitD lowers magnesium levels and the effects to see what you think?

    Also I have been told that the blood tests for magnesium are next to useless and seeing as I am one of those people who takes Vits/Mins ONLY after I have had bloods tested for them and not just because!!!! I wondered what you thought of this to.

    Thanks for your reply and I know EXACTLY what you mean about nasty replies - it makes you think twice about answering people doesn't it!!!!!!!.

    Moggie x

  • Hi Mogie,

    Regarding replies,I am glad I am not the only one, sometimes it seems really vindictive and now I am so ill I am not as resilient as I was! , I am always interested to hear other sides to things and have an open mind but I always think it is only fair to give all sides of info.Actually, I think some people just want confirmation of what they believe and are not open minded. Such is life! I know that had I had this knowledge originally I would certainly have avoided my cardiac ( potassium ) arrests and my 2 lethal episodes of acute renal failure!

    I have to be very informed now as hospitals, in patient, make a lot of mistakes, some worse than others. i have a lot of very complicated problems.

    Regarding your queries. Yes do post the article site you were looking at. Trouble is some are one doctors/persons views and some times not very helpful. For instance I have to take a lot of drugs with horrible side effects and contra indicated for me. However, with the help of very good consultants, I know I have to take them,It is true the magnesium test is not perfect. However I have to take a lot on a script and originally it was very much below range. The treatment, most magnesium over the counter is useless, did put my magnesium its normal range. I have to control the dose as sometimes my magnesium then goes above range.I reduce it It does then go down. The best way of taking magnesium is in food. If not possible then a drip in hospital, which I have had is second best. I take magnesium oxide which does work and is used for kidney transplant patients.Although my GP does my magnesium test on consultant `s instructions, she is penny pinching and still would not do it if she thought a waste of time! I awat to read your site!

    Best wishes,

    Jackie

  • Thanks for this Jackie - I'll PM you.

    Moggie x

    p.s. Did you catch DeniseR's question which is on this question - thought you might have some ideas for her as well.

  • Hi I did thanks but did not mention the " reply to me" so I hope she realises!

    Jackie

  • Moggie,

    I appreciate that PMs have their place - and use them myself when I see the need - but can't help wondering what seems to be secret here? Maybe it isn't anything secret?, but that is how it is likely to come across to many readers.

    I try never to make suggestions in a PM that are not already posted somewhere or other and so open to comment by others. Positive and negative.

  • Hi Rod,

    The reason for my PM to Jackie is that you have heard it all before from me - the same problem I have had for 9 months or more (facing/skipping heart)and I really dont want to bore everyone with it yet again. I seem to have exhausted all suggestions from people on here and dont want to make a pest of myself.

    There is NO secret just a conversation with someone who I think may be aple to help with this particular problem. If Jackie does/can help and I think the info or my eventual finding will help others on here I will obviously share but at the moment I am racing against the clock to get my problem sorted or my operation will be cancelled.

    Moggie x

  • Hi all

    Sorry to butt in but with all the informed people here I was hoping someone might be able to answer a question I have?

    I only take what seems like low levels of Vit D3 800IU or 20mcg. I've been taking this since last summer and have had no further Vit D, calcium or any other tests. My vit D blood test was just in range but my endo said he was prescribing vit D because my potassium was low.

    To be honest, it hasn't made me feel any different and I'm exactly sure what difference it's supposed to make or why I'm taking it. Can anyone tell me?

    Thanks D :)

  • And your getting heart palps as well???????? Interesting.

    Looks like Jackie's the one for this Den. Why dont you ask a question as it will get missed if you tag it onto this one. I'll be keeping an eye on any answers you get.

    Moggie x

  • Yes Moggie, palps pretty bad at the moment too.

    I see Jackie has answered but I'll post it as a question too, in case anyone is interested :)

    X x x

  • Hi Den, Usually endos are very good on Potassium and calcium as and D as it is their field, especially D as it is hormonal.However I would still ask GP for a calcium test, or even the endo. I would tell them you are concerned, a lot of docs would do it automatically, unless ill informed!Vit D takes 3 months to effect the blood completely was on very high Vit D and calcium OK. 6 weekly tests. Then calcium went over range I had to reduce D , then still over range and had to stop D for ever. I had the PTH nuclear scan, CT and although blood high OK. Ultra sound showed enlarged thyroid + nodules but that not relevant to the calcium. High calcium can be lots of things, some thyroid connected , can be a sign of cancer but often no cause found but just relating to low D. I have severe osteoporosis and get osteomalacia ( adult rickets ) with my low D but still no longer can take it safely. D very important but calcium more so.Make sure you always have copies of consultants letters etc. they may have asked for a calcium test. I have learnt never to rely on a GP reading let alone acting on a letter!

    I hope that answers your question.If not get back to me.

    Best wishes,

    Jackie

  • Hi Jackie

    Thanks for your reply. Wow, very knowledgable, I find it all a bit confusing.

    My GP didn't want to give me the Vit D but did because my endo prescribed it, it was another couple of weeks before she would have got the letter saying why He put me on it!

    I don't rely on any of the docs, hence why I'm here lol I will mention about having a calcium test, I'm due TFT blood tests next week, so will see if they'll just add it on. I'm still not sure however what having low potassium has to do with taking extra vit D?

    Also, what's the nuclear scan for and did you get the nuclear and ct scan private, can't imagine my docs agreeing to that lol

    I'm going to post the same question on the forum, just in case anyone else is interested too :)

    Thanks again, D X x

  • Hi Den.,

    I have had the knowledge forced on me due to some incompetent doctors.I have learnt never to trust them, even my brilliant ones I always say if I disagree. i must be such a pain to them! Did you have the copy of the endo`s letter to GP? If not just phone the secretary, they have to let you have one these days.So useful It would have contained details of tests. you can also get the results from the sec. but make sure you ask for the ranges ,as they are not normally sent from hospitals as they know them of by heart!The calcium is a seperate test, commonly done and cheap!Potassium is U`s and E`s perfectly reasonable to have that re checked. sodium ( salt) is another electrolyte and must be in range ( U`s and E`s, kidney function) potassium is very important, the most actually. You can have a horrible drink ,diluted tablet called sando K, revolting I have 6 to 8 a day. That is a lot, it is very dangerous and mostly given only in hospital unless peculiar like me!Potassium is in a lot of food, especially tomatoes, kiwi and bananas. That is absolutely safe and good. If you look on the WEB separately Magnesium and Potassium you will find food lists.

    If you have a test for calcium , PTH ( parathyroid) and vit D AM together and are all high or all except the D which is high D for you. Then it may be the pTH which needs checking for tumours, removed fairly easily.These will only show on a nuclear scan, dye and lots of keeping still and a CT is normally done too.Most GP`s do not realise that vit D is essential for this test None of mine did!They do now!They are the normal test to do if bloods show needed. Only large hospitals do them . You can pay at a NHS Hospital but you would need a referral and no point as it is duty of care if medically needed and VERY expensive!Unless ,of course, you have medical insurance.

    Similar questions are often posted but it is always interesting to hear people views. Sometimes I am flogging a dead horse but if I can stop one person from a cardiac arrest or acute kidney failure, coma etc. then I will!Trouble is it is all only known by the very top cardios ,as I found out to my cost and once you are dead, lack of treatment means nothing, that is fine for the cowardly docs!

    Best wishes,

    Jackie

  • Hi

    Just a comment my vitamin D3 levels were 101, although 150 was top of the range, my liver department warned the bone clinic not to advised for me not to take the supplement, in case it went much higher its toxic to the liver.

    Brst wishes Helen

  • Thanks for your input Helen.

    Moggie x

  • Moggie (and others). I have been reading "The Calcium Paradox) and the Dr who wrote it says that if you take Vitamin K 2 with the D3 then your body will dispose of the calcium in the right way by taking it out of your arteries etc and putting it into your bones where it should be. It's very interesting.

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