what to do next?

[jayne63]

Hi i am after advice again regarding a GP appointment i have on friday.If its worth the hassle or my results seem ok.

After a horrendous gp appointment when i was really unwell and my TSH had crept up a little but accodring to my gp the within normal ranges was spouted!!

Dec 3rd my TSH and T4 were as im going to say fab at 0.7(0.35-5.5)

and T4 was 15.2(9.22.7)

i WENT TO THE DOCS as i felt really unwell typical hypo symptoms and tey tested and on that a male doc blasted me saying it was not my thyroid and to put it right out of my head and it was menopausal.I had bloods come back that told me all was well(as i told him but he didnt listen)

The bloods done on 29.1.13 were TSH 1.37(0.35-5.5) AND T4 17.5(9-22.7)

So i see its rising i feel it is but GP says not! was rude and generally said i was being silly!

ayway i went to have private bloods done on 31.1.13 thyroid T3 and antibodies.On advice from someone here regarding my T3 as i seem to be really suffering .I also took it upon myself to up my thyroxine as i was so unwell i was on 75mg and i have been doing 75mg one night and 100 on alternate nights.One week on im already feeling the benefits.The male gp refused even to consider an increase as im well within normal peramiters grrrr!

Anyway the tests went missing and ive only just got them today and dont seem to have any advice and even if they are fine and just the levo will be ok

so here goes and advice on my next move or wether im ok and not needing to do anything else.

so results as follows

FREE T3 3.7 (3.1-6.8 )REF RANGE

FREE T4 18.2 12-22)

TSH 0.822 (0.270-4.200)

THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTTIBODIES NEGATIVE <60

EQUIVOCAL 60-100

POSITIVE>100

SO what to do or is it more normal now..what a differsnce in ranges though lol

[greygoose]

Good lord, that FT3 is so low! No wonder you don't feel well. If my T3 were that low I wouldn't be able to get out of bed. Stoopid docs! How can they possibly believe that just being within such a wide range makes you well.

I'm not a doctor but I would say you have a convertion problem there. The T4 is just above mid-range and the T3 is so low. If you were converting well, the T3 would be higher in its range than the T4 in its. We don't care about the TSH, it's meaningless.

So, maybe having some T3 added to your T4 would make you feel better...

Hugs, Grey x

[galathea]

I will second what grey says, but before you get t3, (or try to). Why not try some selenium.... The uk s short of selenium and it is needed to help with t4/t3 conversion.

200 units per day, not sure if it is sold in mg or mcg

G

[Hidden in reply to galathea]

or 3 or 4 brazil nuts a day for selenium?

[jayne63]

so what should i say to the docs as im so wary of what they will say and also that ive been and had tests done...as they fall within the ranges it seems like they look as if you have 2 heads and i want to be listened to as they are making me feel like im a hypocondriac..im dont get the bit about T.4 AND T3 GREYGOOSE..give me an example and i will take it in...so fed up and look like im gonna be made redundant after my honeymoon so will be stressed and looking for extra work when coping seems to be hard/...ALSO waht do they recomend for T3 as in extra med im sorry i just dont want to be ignorant here x

[greygoose in reply to jayne63]

Well, your FT4 result is : FREE T4 18.2 12-22) mid range is 17 so you're just above mid-range, so that is good, you have a decent amount of T4. Could be higher but...

Now, if your FT3 result was : FREE T3 5.7 (3.1-6.8 ) (for example) then that would mean that you are converting enough of your T4 into T3.

But yours is : FREE T3 3.7 (3.1-6.8 ) which is right at the bottom of its range. So that nice amount of T4 you have isn't getting converted.

I'm not sure that's a good example, brain not working tonight, tell me if it's not clear.

Most people need their FT3 to be up near the top of the range to feel well - sometimes (like me) they even need it over the top. You have virtually no T3, so how is your body supposed to function? It can't. So you feel ill.

Yes, T3 can be taken as an extra med. It's called Cytomel. It was a good idea of galathea's to take selenium for convertion, but I think you need some as quickly as possible, and convertion takes time. Stress to your doctor that your FT3 is much too low (don't think he'll worry about you doing private tests, but if he does tell him you're just saving the NHS some money!), and that you feel ill because of that, and would like a trial of T3.

Hope that helps, but please don't hesitate to ask more questions if this isn't clear.

Hugs, Grey

[jayne63 in reply to greygoose]

Thanks it makes a lot more sense now.i am so cold all the time and i feel dry despite my oils butters etc.

I only hope the GP listens

[nursey in reply to greygoose]

Sorry to hijack this thread but I have read with interest your post. I am trying to compile a case to my gp and I ordered the Dr toft book. However having had a quick look it's doesn'seem to help my case whereas your explanation does.

My tsh is 3.76 (range 0.5 - 5.5). T4 14.40 (range 10.5 - 20) ft3 4.4 (range 3.5 - 6.5). Dr soft says if your tsh and t4 in range you are not hypothyroidism. But your explanation suggests I have plenty of t4 which I cannot turn into t3. Am I right.

Also my b12 is 300 (range 180 - 900) serum ferritin 40.5 (range 10 - 200) serum folate 6 .70 (range 3.0 -20).

My gp sent me away saying there is nothing wrong with me. He said buy some vitamins and I''ll feel better in the summer.

I feel terrible st the moment. I am on no medication.

Please, am I mad or do I have something worth pursuing.

Thankyou

[Hidden in reply to nursey]

nope you're not mad, from posts here (& elsewhere) lots of folks seem to have a conversion problem. (do you think you're mad as the doc says 'you're normal' but you know you're not!)

FT4 and FT3 should be in the high end of range to feel better (so I'm told) and with a TSH over 3 you'd probably be treated in the USA or elsewhere too. Remember TSH is just a measure of your pituitary sending out an instruction to your Thyroid to make more hormone, but it can't keep up with demand.

I'm not on Meds either (yet)

Others have said they feel better when B12 is above 500, and other vits/minerals higher too - have you had Vit D tested too? I didn't think it that important either - but it is for me! (feeling better in the summer is no co-incidence).

Whether we are hypo because of low vits/minerals or the other way round - who knows? it's a jigsaw, maybe with adrenal and gut issues too, but others find supplementing helps. Personally I think low metabolism is hibernation, the poor body is trying to hang on to the low levels it has.

The 'Eurika' book I found was Dr B Peatfield's 'Your Thyroid and How to Keep it Healthy' (or in my case your half a thyroid healthy) -

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/suppor...

take care (& supplements) Jane

[shaws in reply to jayne63]

I know it is easy to say, but try not to worry. All of us before diagnosis had no clue about the thyroid gland and its function and it is a big learning curve.

If you want to reply to a particular person's comment you have to press the blue Reply to this and a new box open as they will not be notified and you may wonder why you haven't had a reply but some who are looking through again will see your reply.

The best way of knowing if the meds are working for you is 'How do you Feel" and if bad the GP should increase your meds.

The ex-President of the British Thyroid Association wrote an online article in which it says that some people need a suppressed TSH or the addition of T3 and if you email [e-mail] for a copy you can give it to your GP for him to read.

GP's have no idea how ill we feel especially if we are on thyroid medication.

Never mind that they say your other 'problems' are not related and I bet you they are. Levothyroxine is also know as T4 (this is the inactive hormone) which should convert to T3 which is the active hormone. T3 is necessary in every single cell for your body to work efficiently and we have billions of T3 cells.

We have found that many GP's do not know clinical symptoms and only go by the TSH which is not really the best way to help patients get better.

[jayne63]

CAN i say thank you so much..both of you have made me understand how this T4 and T3 works...i will go to the GP AND hope...that somebody understand s im not being a pain but im in pain.

wish me luck here x

[nostoneunturned in reply to jayne63]

Apart from the spot-on advice above you can maximise T3 production in the liver this way, according to Dr Ray Peat in conversation with Mary Shomon, for the whole article go to:

thyroid-info.com/articles/r...

Meantime here's an interesting quotation from it.

Dr Ray Peat: The amount of glucose in the liver cells regulates the enzyme that converts T4 to T3. This means that hypoglycaemia or diabetes (in which glucose does not enter the cells efficiently) will cause hypothyroidism when T4 cannot be converted into T3. When a person is fasting at first the liver's glycogen stores will provide glucose to maintain T3 production. When the glycogen is depleted the body resorts to the dissolution of tissue to provide energy. The mobilised fatty acids interfere with the use of glucose, and certain amino acids suppress the thyroid gland. Eating carbohydrate (especially fruits) can allow the liver to resume its production of T3.

In addition to taking selenium as advised by galathea above, (the units are micrograms) consider whether you are taking meds correctly, many people find the very last thing at night on an empty stomach is good. Does not suit everybody but worth a try, a link is:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/172...

Avoid all sources of fluoride whether in toothpastes, dental treatments, use of non-stick pans; and do not ever use so-called healthy soy products. Avoid iodine directly as a supplement, but sea salt is OK as the iodine in it is "natural" and the body can deal with it, plus it brings necessary trace minerals, whereas direct iodine supplementation is bad news for the thyroid. Chloride in drinking water is a thyroid downer so any water you are going to drink can be de-chlorinated simply by filling a jug, leave it overnight (one source says an hour - I do not believe it!) and the chlorine evaporates out.

The main site, thyroiduk.org has much information as does:

suite101.com just dig around for thyroid info

This could help you to derive maximum benefit from the dosage you currently have, or better still, the T3 which you plainly need.

I notice you refer to "honeymoon" this raises the possibility you night be on the pill, it is well kown that the pill can increase the need for levothyroxine. See Dr Anthony Toft's book "Understanding thyroid disorders" only £5 from chemists/Amazon for a reference to this fact on Page 47, also his reference to some patients' need for T4/T3 treatment rather than T4 only. Dr Toft is a past president of the British Thyroid Association who added T3 to my (formerly ineffective treatment) with great results. The pill issue is also mentioned on main Thyroid Uk site information sheets.

[jayne63]

i dont take the pill lol im 49 am also without the womb so thats not an issue...thank you for all tthat info i will look