Hormone tests & HRT...: Can anyone help interpret... - Thyroid UK

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Hormone tests & HRT...

diagnosed2013 profile image
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Can anyone help interpret these results please? I had a hysterectomy in 2018 & haven't taken anything until very recently....started hrt gel about 2 months ago but not very consistent with taking. Gp wants me to keep going with it, but doctors comments on my tests from blue horizon was estrogen high....

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diagnosed2013
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TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador

Personally I like my oestradiol around 300 to alleviate symptoms, some say top end 500 others 800 but needs to be viewed alongside progesterone levels and testosterone

I think they suggest above 200pmol/L for best bone protection

Previously they used to say no need for progesterone after a hysterectomy but opinions have changed as it helps to balance out estrogen dominance regardless and it still helps with mood and sleep

bodylogicmd.com/blog/the-be...

From these results I'd flag up the low GFR, how are your thyroid levels?

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

These are my thyroid levels....

These are my thyroid levels...
TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply todiagnosed2013

So these are on the low side though your TSH isn't raised suggesting a possible feedback loop issue if your pituitary isn't signalling the need for more hormone production.

Low autoimmune antibodies suggests no current attack

How are your vits and mins looking?

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

I've been supplementing b12 & folate

Vitsmin D a bit low....looking to get a stronger one as was only taking 1000 in oil
TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply toTiggerMe

Just reading your other post, so B12 and folate ok, Vit D dire! Aiming for 125nmol/L

Do you take magnesium? This helps with Vit D uptake

This will tell you what you need to take to get levels up... grassrootshealth.net/projec...

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply toTiggerMe

Do you have a CRP result?

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

I think so...will just have a look

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

Crp & magnesium etc..

Crp & magnesium etc...
TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply todiagnosed2013

So CRP low suggests ferritin level is genuine (often rises after menopause) and your iron levels are ok along with your cholesterol levels

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

So would the results of the hormone tests suggest I'm post menopausal? Only I'm not sure, had a hysterectomy & on my doctors records it says I had my ovaries removed...but the hospital says I didn't 🤔....I'm puzzled as obviously I can only take oestrogen if I have had my ovaries removed...if not then I could take progesterone etc?

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply todiagnosed2013

Yes, you are post menopausal... how hilarious... NOT! That they can't agree on what they did to you 😕

There is nothing to stop you using all three sex hormones it's just that your GP will likely refuse the progesterone if you don't have a womb... which is the bit they do seem to agree you don't have, as they see it's only purpose is to protect the lining of the uterus... but it may help with mood and sleep

Do you have any thyroid levels from 2013 when you were first diagnosed?

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

Yes this is it...only in last few months did I ever ask for a print out so never knew any results before

Think this is tsh when first diagnosed....
TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply todiagnosed2013

Handy... Can you pin point a time when you felt well and see any corresponding levels? It's good that you have fT4 levels to look back on at least as well as TSH

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

I honestly can't remember....I had my twins by emergency C-section on New Year's Day 2012 so first two years pretty much a blur lol. My doctor is putting all my symptoms down to the menopause...but I have grade 2 lumbarspinal stenosis, cervical stenosis, arthritis in my knee & my hip is going now....just feel like since 50 I'm steadily falling apart 😑...might look to source some T3 privately?

The only reason I don't have anymore thyroid results from back then was because my very nice doctor immigrated to New Zealand so never found another good one again....he was the one that sent me to the hospital with the large fibroid that I had removed & hysterectomy for that (17.5 cm) the fibroid was. I looked about 6 months pregnant!

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply todiagnosed2013

I wouldn't suggest anyone just start on T3 only as often T4 is adequate if conversion is good or more often than not needed at a good level before adding T3, it could be that Metavive is worth a try or perhaps seeing a private GP to trial levothyroxine again?

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

Only ever tsh result I ever had...until this year.

...
SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply todiagnosed2013

17 Oct 2012

Shows TSH was 7.7 (0.25-5.0)

Result marked as abnormal

You should have had retest 2-3 months later

Assuming TSH still over 5 should have been started on Levo then

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toSlowDragon

So doctor started me on levothyroxine 50mg & I stayed on that for 3 years ....only one other tsh test in May 2013 & that was 4. Something will check...I've added it onto here I think. I stopped taking levo as felt well & didn't think I needed it anymore....how wrong I was... .

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toSlowDragon

It all gets a bit bleary after that....no more tests done for thyroid function until this year when I started to feel very unwell. Even early 2022/2023 I was back to the doctors with high blood pressure & lots of other symptoms & still not tested. I trusted my doctor back then (he unfortunately emmigrated to New Zealand just as covid hit & testing pretty much stopped I think. I've got what I think is vitiligo on my back & some on my front, 4 different docs have looked at it & I've had varying diagnosis....First one said dermatitis, that was during covid & photo of rash sent to doc.....no it's not itchy & it's not pink or raised. Its non pigmentation skin. Next doctor (same doctor but this time he actually looked at it...said vitiligo. Next doctor this year said pityriasis & then the next (August this year) said ringworm!!! No it's not itchy or raised, it's non pigmentation in rounds. Anyway....going to go to a dermatologist in the new year I think to get it properly diagnosed. Sorry for long reply....docs aren't my favourite....I've had lots of gaslighting & more.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply todiagnosed2013

Are you on gluten free diet yet

This may also clear up skin issues

I had psoriasis and vitiligo develop before diagnosis of Hashimoto’s

They both disappeared after going gluten free

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toSlowDragon

Yes I'm gluten free & dairy...I use lactofree milk. As lactose intolerant.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply todiagnosed2013

Thyroid patients are often intolerant to dairy enzymes, rather than just the lactose

Worth trying dairy free rather than lactose free

Is your levothyroxine lactose free

Lactose free brands - currently Vencamil or Teva

Vencamil is lactose free and mannitol free. originally only available as 100mcg only, but 25mcg, 50mcg and 75mcg tablets became available Sept 2024

Prior to March 2023 Vencamil was called Aristo

Vencamil often very well tolerated/best option for many people

How to get Vencamil stocked at your local pharmacy

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Posts discussing Vencamil

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu....

Teva makes 12.5mcg 25mcg, 50mcg, 75mcg and 100mcg

Many patients do NOT get on well with Teva brand of Levothyroxine.

Teva is lactose free, but contains mannitol as a filler instead of lactose, which seems to be possible cause of problems. Mannitol seems to upset many people, it changes gut biome 

Helpful post about Teva

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Posts that mention Teva

healthunlocked.com/search/p...

Teva poll

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toSlowDragon

This was my dose back then....

This was my dose....
SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply todiagnosed2013

So almost certainly not high enough dose

Levothyroxine doesn’t “top up” your own thyroid output, it replaces it

Even if we frequently start on only 50mcg, most people need to increase levothyroxine dose slowly upwards in 25mcg steps (retesting 6-8 weeks after each increase) until eventually on, or somewhere near full replacement dose (typically 1.6mcg levothyroxine per kilo of your weight per day)

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/hypo...

bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/levot...

nhs.uk/medicines/levothyrox...

Adults usually start with a dose between 50 micrograms and 100 micrograms taken once a day. This may be increased gradually over a few weeks to between 100 micrograms and 200 micrograms taken once a day.

Some people need a bit less than guidelines, some a bit more

TSH should be under 2 as an absolute maximum when on levothyroxine

gponline.com/endocrinology-...

Graph showing median TSH in healthy population is 1-1.5

web.archive.org/web/2004060...

Comprehensive list of references for needing LOW TSH on levothyroxine

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu....

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

The optimal daily dose in overt hypothyroidism is 1·5–1·8 μg per kg of bodyweight, rounded to the nearest 25 μg.

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toSlowDragon

I don't think my doctor back then understood any of the above...I certainly didn't & only now am I questioning it as I think a lot of my symptoms are down to hormones

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply todiagnosed2013

I don't think my doctor back then understood any of the above

And sadly many GPs and endos still don’t understand that ……we see hundreds of patients left on woefully inadequate doses of Levo for years or decades

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

Should I take magnesium even though my levels look OK on the test results?

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply todiagnosed2013

Magnesium results are reliably unreliable! So adding a little isn't a bad idea 🤷‍♀️

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

OK thanks 😊

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

...

Been supplementing B12 & folate...b12 is now over 🙈
FallingInReverse profile image
FallingInReverse

TiggerMe when you say your results level goals… doesn’t it matter the day of your cycle… and/or are you already menopausal and when you are the levels are the same any day of the month?

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply toFallingInReverse

The joy of post meno means I'm in control of the levels 😅 and they don't fluctuate much, I check them a couple of times a year as I've been adding a little dhea for the last 18 months which has just started to slightly increased both estradiol and testosterone levels so I've tweaked them down a little, I aim for lowest dose to alleviate symptoms

Lora7again profile image
Lora7again in reply toTiggerMe

I went though the menopause at about 58 and it was a breeze after suffering with thyroid disease. I decided against HRT because my mother died from breast cancer. It’s amazing how differently it affects us all

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply toLora7again

For many it comes down to how well your adrenals are able to keep levels from totally crashing so always worth testing levels first, my adrenals were already exhausted from years of low fT3, I'm happy to use HRT for the benefit of my heart, bones, muscles and to be free of the awful tinnitus so my quality of life is greatly improved.... always recommend body identical forms... I think everyone is now so much more vigilant for any form of cancer as the odds aren't great for any of us 😕

Lora7again profile image
Lora7again in reply toTiggerMe

I was on the pill until I was fifty the doctor had to force me to stop taking it lol

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply toLora7again

Have you ever checked your levels?

Lora7again profile image
Lora7again in reply toTiggerMe

Which levels? Hormone?

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply toLora7again

sex hormones

Lora7again profile image
Lora7again in reply toTiggerMe

Yes the doctor was amazed I was still having periods at 56. My grandmother was the same she was 60 when hers stopped. I am very like her just to add I do use a cream which I buy myself to prevent vaginal dryness but that’s all

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply toLora7again

Sounds like your levels are holding up well!

Lora7again profile image
Lora7again in reply toTiggerMe

So far it’s just my thyroid that gives me trouble

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply toLora7again

Perhaps it's the Graves element that has protected your sex hormone levels?

Did your Gran also have Graves?

Lora7again profile image
Lora7again in reply toTiggerMe

No I think that comes from my Irish father who left when I was a baby

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

This was the reply from the doctor commenting on the results of my tests from. Blue Horizon. ..

This was results
TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply todiagnosed2013

Just a standard answer

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

Yes thought it might be the case...thank you for all your help 🙏

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

Can I ask about the tinnitus you have, as I have it very badly too & it's one symptom I find very debilitating....which hrt do you use to help? Or is it a combination? Thank you for your help...much appreciated. Unfortunately I feel at the moment that every doctor I see blames every symptom I have on the menopause, but can't see why low kidney function & low haemotocrit & other issues I've been having with fbc & low mcv & high rbdw on my fbc can be attributed to the menopause. Last fbc done with docs said abnormal,& to repeat & he wasn't that worried about getting them checked again. I've just had a raised faecal calprotectin result & awaiting the results of another one (6 weeks later) to check if they need to refer me to gastroenterology. So much going on. it's hard to work out where to start with things....my low ft3 is a worry as I know they won't prescribe anything for that. My doctor merely said its T4 we look at not T3....

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply todiagnosed2013

It is tricky when they insist on looking at one thing at a time, I add all the sex hormones but it's oestrogen that helps with the tinnitus so worth sticking with the HRT then they will have to move on to the next issue.... thyroid!

Never heard of "faecal calprotectin" so keep us posted on that, I have very low neutrophils in my blood which seems common among us🤷‍♀️

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

Not sure...but think these are low. Some others I have none of...

Would you say these are low?
TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply todiagnosed2013

Yep, about the same as mine range is 2-7.5

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

Interesting that white blood cells seem to be lower, I wander why?

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

These were the fbc results....

Do you know much about fbc?
TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply todiagnosed2013

Mine ticks over around 5... think they raise when fighting infection but no time to look I'm off to the gym

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

....

These I never have any of....
TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply todiagnosed2013

Don't think that's necessarily bad... Medichecks explanation below

Eosinophils

27 Jul 2023

0.06 (0 - 0.4)

Eosinophils are a type of white blood cell that are responsible for removing parasitic infections and regulating inflammation to mark an infected site. They also play a role in allergy and in asthma.

What might a high result mean?

Elevated levels of eosinophils can occur in response to infection, in particular in parasitic infections of the intestines, such as worms. Levels of this white blood cell rise in order to fight off the infection.

Elevated levels of eosinophils can also arise when the body induces greater inflammation than necessary, as is the case in asthma and allergic responses as well as in autoimmune diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis and lupus.

Basophils

27 Jul 2023

0.03 (0-0.1)

Basophils are a type of white blood cell that protect your body from bacteria and parasites such as ticks. They also play a role in allergic reactions.

What might a low result mean?

Low levels of basophils can be caused allergic reactions and infections, when the levels of basophils have spiked in order to protect the body, and then been depleted afterwards.

Low levels of basophils are associated with hyperthyroidism.

What might a high result mean?

Elevated levels of basophils can be seen with bone marrow disorders, in which the body produces an excess number of blood cells. Levels can also raise due to autoimmune conditions such as rheumatoid arthritis.

Raised levels of basophils are also associated with hypothyroidism.

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

So faecal calprotectin is a stool test to check for IBD etc, if it's below 99 it usually means IBS but when it's raised it's generally means IBD so they have to then do tests to see what's going on. I've had it for many years I feel, but this last year its been much worse & food intolerances have got much worse too. I react to so many things.....medication too, I'm quite surprised I can tolerate oestrogel, luckily I seem OK with that.

diagnosed2013 profile image
diagnosed2013 in reply toTiggerMe

Can you recommend how much estradiol I should use as the doctors comments on my blood tests said my levels were high. Do you think I should stop using the gel or just use a little bit? I was only on one pump a day but that seemed loads when it came out the pump.... I'm so confused as to which way to go with this right now. Plus they won't look at anything else, all docs put it down to is menopause. For me, not knowing for definite if they did take my ovaries out or not complicates things a little as far as getting a doctor to prescribe anything more than just the oestrogen gel.

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply todiagnosed2013

The ranges are a bit misleading as just aimed at expected menopause levels without HRT, your level isn't high, 1 pump is a low dose so you might want to experiment with 2.... it is a lot of slime 🫤 Personally I use Lenzetto which is a spray

Leaney profile image
Leaney

My GP told me that they don't like prescribing progesterone because it is the hormone that fuels breast cancer. This was quite a while ago now. I just have the oestrogen gel. Is this still the current thinking? I have a terrible sleep pattern.

TiggerMe profile image
TiggerMeAmbassador in reply toLeaney

There are people that use progesterone for symptom relief with mood and sleep so could be worth a try, they try to scare us with all sorts but the truth is hormones are natural compared to drugs that deal with the effects of low/ unbalanced hormone levels... progesterone for me is like a sleeping tablet... works a treat!

Worth investigating all of your levels

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