Advice please: Hi All I wondered whether any if... - Thyroid UK

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Advice please

Buntikins profile image
30 Replies

Hi All

I wondered whether any if you helpful people could comment on my latest thyroid blood tests please?

TSH 2.88 (0.57 - 3.6)

FT4 16.4 (7.9 -14)

FT3 5.9 (3.1 - 6.8)

Brief history: Diagnosed with hypothyroidism 3 years ago when TSH rose to 10.

It had been above 3.6 for approx 20 years before that BUT both FT3 and FT4 have always been the high end of normal (FT4 now high).

GP says 'satisfactory'.

I am taking 25 mg Levothyroxine.

I was taking 50 mg until 2 years ago when it was reduced due to symptoms of palpitations, facial sweating, fatigue and low mood.

GP has also recently diagnosed Sertraline for low mood.

Do any of you know of any contraindications?

Thank you x

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Buntikins
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30 Replies
SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

TSH 2.88 (0.57 - 3.6)

FT4 16.4 (7.9 -14)

FT3 5.9 (3.1 - 6.8)

Was test done as recommended …..all thyroid blood tests early morning, ideally just before 9am, only drink water between waking and test and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)

Ft3 is high for such a tiny dose Levo

Have you had ultrasound scan of thyroid

Or BOTH TPO and TG antibodies

When were vitamin D, folate, B12 and ferritin levels last tested

What vitamin supplements are you taking

I was taking 50 mg until 2 years ago when it was reduced due to symptoms of palpitations, facial sweating, fatigue and low mood.

These are HYPO symptoms

What were your results on 50mcg

Buntikins profile image
Buntikins in reply toSlowDragon

Hi again

FT3 has always been high end of normal.

Levo seems to have little effect on anything except TSH.

Results on 50 mg similar (I'll check back).

TPO and Tg antibodies negative. 😕

Thank you!

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toBuntikins

You could have a “hot nodule”

This makes Ft3 regardless of TSH

mayoclinic.org/diseases-con...

Nodules that produce excess thyroid hormone — called hot nodules — show up on the scan because they take up more of the isotope than normal thyroid tissue does. Hot nodules are almost always noncancerous.

Buntikins profile image
Buntikins in reply toSlowDragon

Ooh interesting. Thank you

Valeriu profile image
Valeriu in reply toSlowDragon

I wonder if introducing Lugol's iodine ( 2 or 3 drops in some warm tea) would help ?

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toValeriu

Definitely not

Valeriu profile image
Valeriu in reply toSlowDragon

IN a few groups I'm in most people say it's good for the thyroid....Stephanie Buist cured her thyroid cancer with Iodine and says it's brilliant if you're Hypothyroid - it worked well for me whilst I was on the iodine protocol......In another group for Followers of Dr Myhill's it's also suggested to take a few drops I take 3 drops so 18.75mg whereas before I used to take 150 mg) of Lugol's Iodine I put it in my warm tea everyday an hour before taking Vit C....I think it's good for those who are Hypothyroid....

helvella profile image
helvellaAdministrator in reply toValeriu

Many people who are hypothyroid have little to no functioning thyroid tissue.

How would iodine help them?

Suggesting significant iodine supplementation is potentially dangerous. The issues are complex. It is absolutely not safe to pick up "most people" recommendations and pass them on.

150 milligrams of iodine is a truly massive intake.

The Japanese are often held up as among those with the highest iodine intake. Something like 3 milligrams a day - on average. And they have among the highest rates of autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's).

Iodine Toxicity

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK5...

Buntikins profile image
Buntikins in reply tohelvella

Thank you Helvella.

The thing is, my FT4 has always been on the high side of normal - even when my TSH was 10.

Levo did nothing to further increase my FT4 for three years - just reduced my TSH. So I did wonder whether I had a simple iodine deficiency tbh.

I don't really understand the prescription of Levo when FT4 is optimal (and now raised).

TPO.and Tg antibodies negative too.

Confusing. 😕

helvella profile image
helvellaAdministrator in reply toBuntikins

That looks like you are not converting T4 to T3 adequately in your pituitary - leaving it to "think" you need more TSH to make more T4 and/or T3. I need to check the details but T4 to T3 conversion in the pituitary is different to elsewhere.

I'd have a good look round all the "other" things:

Iron

B12

Folate

Selenium (consider a modest dose such as 100 or 200 micrograms)

But it could simply be your genetic make-up.

If you were truly iodine deficient, I would have expected you to fail to maintain your FT4.

However, overall I think you are just you and don't fit the doctors' preconceptions.

Have a look here - but don't get yourself bogged down or concerned if you don't fully grasp it on first, second, twentieth time of trying. It is genuinely hard to juggle all the concepts in a useful way. I always have to go back to articles like this to re-read and see if I understand this time round!

thyroidpatients.ca/2021/08/...

Buntikins profile image
Buntikins in reply tohelvella

Thank you Helvella.

It is confusing, as my FT3 has always been at the higher end of normal range too.

I’ll check the article out - thank you!

Valeriu profile image
Valeriu in reply tohelvella

Dr Myhill recommends only 2 or 3 drops per day....in Stephanie Buist group people were curing breast cancer with big doses of iodine....she worked with Dr Bernstein or Brownstein I forgot the precise name :)

Buntikins profile image
Buntikins in reply toValeriu

Thank you Valeriu.As my FT4 has always been optimal, I did wonder whether I had a simple iodine deficiency, but wouldn't risk taking it with Levo.

I really don't understand the prescription of Levo when FT4 has always been optimal - and now raised. Neither GP or Endo has managed to explain this.

😕

Valeriu profile image
Valeriu in reply toBuntikins

yes that doesn't seem logical - but maybe it's in the hope you'll manage to convert it to free T3 - which you seem to be able to....Hope you find a solution. I've done the entire Iodine protocol with co Factors : B2/B3, Selenium 200mcg - 400 mcg, Magnesium 300 - 400mg ( I actually took 600mg - 800mg) Vitamin C 3000 - 4000mg ; Celtic salt ....plus Boron 30 - 60 mg .....now I don't need the co-factors as I'm only taking 3 drops 18.75 mg in a little warm tea every day....I've done this for last 4 or more years. I'm Hypothiroid / not hashimoto... Good Luck x

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

Testing options and includes money off codes for private testing

thyroiduk.org/testing/

Medichecks Thyroid plus BOTH TPO and TG antibodies and vitamins

medichecks.com/products/adv...

Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes BOTH TPO and TG antibodies, cortisol and vitamins

bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...

Medichecks and BH also offer private blood draw at clinic near you, or private nurse to your own home…..for an extra fee

Only do private testing early Monday or Tuesday morning.

Tips on how to do DIY finger prick test

support.medichecks.com/hc/e...

If you normally take levothyroxine at bedtime/in night ...adjust timings as follows prior to blood test

If testing Monday morning, delay Saturday evening dose levothyroxine until Sunday morning. Delay Sunday evening dose levothyroxine until after blood test on Monday morning. Take Monday evening dose levothyroxine as per normal

Buntikins profile image
Buntikins in reply toSlowDragon

Thanks Slow DragonI kept to protocol for the blood test and all bits and minerals are optimun

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toBuntikins

Can you add most recent vitamin results and ranges

Buntikins profile image
Buntikins in reply toSlowDragon

I don't have any more recent ones but have been supplementing with a multivitamin and mineral since my last tests.I didn't take it for 10 days before my test though.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toBuntikins

Multivitamins never recommended on here

Most contain iodine not recommended for anyone on levothyroxine

And far too low levels to correct low levels

Test at least annually and supplement separate vitamins

Buntikins profile image
Buntikins in reply toSlowDragon

Thanks Slow Dragon.I get this, but I'm vegetarian and don't eat eggs, so it seems the easiest way to cover any possible deficiency. They don't contain iodine - I check!

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toBuntikins

So multivitamins unlikely high enough dose for missing nutrients

Probably to need separate B12 and vitamin B complex

And separate iron supplement

Buntikins profile image
Buntikins in reply toSlowDragon

Will do - thanks Slow Dragon.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

Looking at previous posts you have in past had extremely low B12, low folate, low ferritin

No vitamin D result

Low vitamin levels typical when on inadequate dose levothyroxine

NHS only tests TG antibodies if TPO are high

Levothyroxine doesn’t “top up” failing thyroid. It replaces it

Guidelines of dose Levo by weight

approx how much do you weigh in kilo

Even if we frequently start on only 50mcg, most people need to increase levothyroxine dose slowly upwards in 25mcg steps (retesting 6-8 weeks after each increase) until eventually on, or somewhere near full replacement dose (typically 1.6mcg levothyroxine per kilo of your weight per day)

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/hypo...

bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/levot...

nhs.uk/medicines/levothyrox...

Adults usually start with a dose between 50 micrograms and 100 micrograms taken once a day. This may be increased gradually over a few weeks to between 100 micrograms and 200 micrograms taken once a day.

Some people need a bit less than guidelines, some a bit more

TSH should be under 2 as an absolute maximum when on levothyroxine

gponline.com/endocrinology-...

Graph showing median TSH in healthy population is 1-1.5

web.archive.org/web/2004060...

Comprehensive list of references for needing LOW TSH on levothyroxine

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu....

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...

If symptoms of hypothyroidism persist despite normalisation of TSH, the dose of levothyroxine can be titrated further to place the TSH in the lower part of the reference range or even slightly below (i.e., TSH: 0.1–2.0 mU/L), but avoiding TSH < 0.1 mU/L. Use of alternate day dosing of different levothyroxine strengths may be needed to achieve this (e.g., 100 mcg for 4 days; 125 mcg for 3 days weekly).

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

The optimal daily dose in overt hypothyroidism is 1·5–1·8 μg per kg of bodyweight, rounded to the nearest 25 μg.

Buntikins profile image
Buntikins in reply toSlowDragon

I weigh approx 8 stone.Small dose given also due to my age (70). It was increased to 50mg but reduced again when symptoms of palpitations etc got worse.

Both types of antibodies were tested when I was first diagnosed.

Symptoms improved on HRT but I can no longer take it.

GP thinks low mood unrelated to thyroid hence antidepressants.

😕

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply toBuntikins

See how you get on

Levo must be at least 2 hours away from all supplements and any medications

Many people take Levothyroxine soon after waking, but it may be more convenient and perhaps more effective taken at bedtime

verywellhealth.com/best-tim...

markvanderpump.co.uk/blog/p...

markvanderpump.co.uk/blog/p...

No other medication or supplements at same as Levothyroxine, leave at least 2 hour gap.

Some like iron, calcium, magnesium, HRT, omeprazole or vitamin D should be four hours away

(Time gap doesn't apply to Vitamin D mouth spray)

If you normally take levothyroxine at bedtime/in night ...adjust timings as follows prior to blood test

If testing Monday morning, delay Saturday evening dose levothyroxine until Sunday morning. Delay Sunday evening dose levothyroxine until after blood test on Monday morning. Take Monday evening dose levothyroxine as per normal

Buntikins profile image
Buntikins in reply toSlowDragon

Thank you Slow Dragon.I've always been puzzled as to why I'm on Levo when my FT4 has always been the high end of normal and is now slightly too high and out of range.

Is it not likely to keep rising on Levo?

Blue_Lagoon profile image
Blue_Lagoon

Hi Buntikins,

I am also on 50 mcg Levo and Sertraline and I have to say that, although I have bad days, my mood is rather good so would say that the combination of the 2 work rather well. For me at least! I hope the Sertraline will start to work for you soon too. x

Buntikins profile image
Buntikins in reply toBlue_Lagoon

Good to hear.Thank you!

Valeriu profile image
Valeriu

Looking at your results they seem OK except free T4 a little high....I'm at bottom range for both T3 & T4 and decreasing my NDT at present : Erfa to come off it again....Good Luck :)

Buntikins profile image
Buntikins in reply toValeriu

Yes, my FT4 has never been low and is now high on Levo 😕Thank you Valeriu

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