About a month ago I submitted a complaint to the GMC detailing numerous counts of dishonesty and lack of thyroid knowledge healthunlocked.com/thyroidu... .
I have received a rejection from the GMC. This did not surprise me because I later saw this video youtube.com/watch?v=l_ooBWq... which reveals the GMC investigates only about 3% of complaints. Note this is 3% of those complaints they investigate, most are dismissed at the triage stage.
There are serious flaws in the response I've received from the GMC and so I will submit a 'Rule 12' appeal.
I received a 'Rule 12 FAQ' document (not available online) in which there are many references that reveal the GMC is unlikely to investigate a 'single incident', there must be 'multiple incidents'. Thus it is unlikely that a first complaint will ever be investigated, it is eliminated at a 'triage' stage. I think it is important therefore that if we have a complaint (not just a disagreement) we should submit a complaint to the GMC as there may have been a more serious previous complaint that will only be followed up after a second complaint is received.
I think this is wrong but this is the current process, I suspect they minimise their workload by ignoring first complaints.
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jimh111
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The whole system is rotten to the core. And even worse for hypos because not many of us have the strength to fight. But you did well to complain in the first place. Fingers crossed for the appeal!
It's important to complain because they obviously ignore the first complaint as a means of reducing workload. Of course you shouldn't complain just because you disagree with the doctor's diagnosis but if they are incompetent or plainly lying then a complaint is valid.
As my friend says "the GMC works for doctors to protect them from patients".
So, who protects us from doctors??? We need protection from their ignorance, sadism, jemenfoutism and disdain. Why is there no-one to do that?
I totally agree with you about complaining. I'm a great complainer (lol) because if no-one complains, nothing changes. Which is logical because how is anybody supposed to know there's something wrong in nobody says anything. As I always say: silence is compliance.
As stated some months ago, we need a Patient's Union - some of them are scandalous and, basically, The Boys' Club [still] Rules, Not OK!
Oh greygoose, I am far from compliant or complicit with the...
Doctoring in the 21st Century
What about the doctor-patient relationship; the need to work with, relate to, and assist the individual in front of you? Medicine now seems to be suffocating [some] doctors and then patients are largely blamed.
Wessely's MUS narrative, infecting endocrinology for some time, as Weetman’s ‘somatising’ drivel, may have been 20th Century darlings, not so much now. The percentage of people with such problems cannot account for those huge numbers with physical issues, who are most disingenuously, ‘written off’ to spare doctors having to deal with complex cases. Even were there some ‘psychological issue’ (in my case, rest assured there is not), is this really how you medics respond to a patient in these circumstances!? There is a huge scam going on within endocrinology, which relies on individuals being dismissed on the basis of flimsy population ‘evidence’ that cannot possibly stand up to scrutiny. Indeed, many highly qualified, smart and compassionate doctors have fallen foul to this insidious movement à la the hideous ‘Wessely and Weetman School’.
Perhaps if doctors today would only:
1. Accept when it comes to efficacy and/or side effects of treatment, the patient most likely knows best.
2. Accept that your job could be more interesting if you learned to co-ordinate experience and research the efforts of patients, rather than continue to dictate to or dismiss them.
3. Accept that patients continue to come to you not because you are necessarily good at your job but because society has largely made it impossible to get help or medicines except through you.
4. Accept that your actions are often dictated by ghost written articles and inaccessible data mediated through guidelines that you haven’t the guts to stand up to, even when you see discrepancies.
5. Recognize that far from being founts of wisdom and compassion, you and colleagues can get quite nasty if questioned and can be seen an obstacle to work around instead of a source of support.
6. Medically Unexplained Symptoms can equally point to limitations in current medical knowledge or perhaps your knowledge? The term is not some euphemism for that old ‘all in the head’ psych junk.
Doctors and patients are now in a unique position to mutually engage with health issues. Doctors can nudge patients toward healthier lifestyles; guide them to personalized and effective treatments; empower to ensure patients enjoy the maximum quality of life for as long as possible; they can, but more often than not don’t. Fundamentally medicine has gone in a direction that has taken it away from personal care for depersonalized guidelines, notions of academic elitism and bureaucratic complexities that simmer behind the scenes.
For the NHS to survive, doctors need to join the wider quest of keeping people healthier for longer. Or maybe it is now too late for both patients and the NHS?
This is not ‘Healthism’ à la Weetman - this is meant to be 21st Century Healthcare for Patients.
Agree with everything you say. But, the thing is, nothing is going to change whilst doctors know they are not accountable. They can behave any way they like, mistreat, mock and humiliate patients with no comeback, because the medical community will protect them at all costs. Make them accountable and things might change.
I do hope you've filled in the questionnaire that Lyn Mynott posted about this morning. I'm sure it is this kind of clear and eloquant explanation about the present state of things that the student is looking for.
Sadly, nothing will ever change under this type of system = haughty and arrogant [aka ignorant] and so defensive about their ignorance. Yes, some do all of those things and 'patient blame' to boot! I recall in the early 1990s - introduction of NVQs - having to introduce the 'O Unit' - which looked at anti-disc practice, rights and responsibilities, including all manner of treating the person as an individual. That was for trainees working, in this case, community-based mental health. At that time, it was said that everyone - doctors, lawyers... - were to be similarly tested. Whoopee, some of us thought, but guess what!? There surely has to be a standard that anyone [patient or professional] can point to and say, "You're not meeting that"?
Sorry I didn't see it. Please, can you repost the questionnaire?
Thank you, greygoose - began filling in, 'class' stopped me (I'm classified as one) Middle - but think anyone who had to/or has to work for money is Working class - I'd anticipate more from a psychology - albeit health - student. Hope it goes well. xox
Well, I suppose she could have asked to pick an income bracket to get the information she wants. Because there's no denying that the amount of money at your disposal is going to affect your health in some ways. But talking about class is a bit out-moded, and likely to give some false impressions.
But, I have yet to see the perfect questionnaire! They all fail in one way or another, so conclusions always have to be taken with a pinch of salt.
Absolutely, I've devised several and have > a good idea of the pitfalls. Also, unless totally loaded AND SMART, money doesn't always equate to 'good medicine'. Choosing well - I can - but having enough to see you through it all, is the criteria. I don't! 😂🥲
Don't knock the ducking stool, it's an excellent diagnostic tool. When I was severely hypothyroid and suspecting hypothyroidism I started to learn to swim as I couldn't do any other exercise. To get us used to water our instructor got us to float face down and see how long we could go. I did 56 seconds, double the time of any others and I came up early in case they would think I was showing off. My instructor said "I've only ever had one person who has done better and he had something wrong with his glands".
A slow metabolism, needing less oxygen. In the old days they would assess oxygen consumption to diagnose hypothyroidism. It's still done with patients who have genetic resistance to thyroid hormone. Hypothyroidism gives a slow shallow pulse.
Wow fascinating and easily anticipated, IF you know. Several years before finally being dx'd by Dr S, a hospital nurse, in conjunction with my 'being tested', ran to someone and said, "She has no pulse". My response, "She's dead of course"... end line of an old kids song, 'I know an old lady who swallowed a fly'.
Sorry I've lost the thread. In what context do you mean asthma? Certainly poor magnesium status is a consequence of hypothyroidism and it aggravates asthma due to magnesium deficiency effects on smooth muscle in the lungs.
No, asthma doesn't help anything! I just meant that if you have hypo, reduced metabolism or not, if you have asthma you cannot hold your breath for very long. So, the Ducking Stool would have done for me, very quickly! I would have drowned! 😂
They didn't seem to have ANY problem 'investigating' Dr Skinner - from the large amount of complaints from DOCTORS! [Dr] Peatfield, Dr S Myhill... others afflicted by quacks and charlatans!
Hi - when you say 'disagree with the doctor's diagnosis', what happens when that stems from either incompetence or [mendaciously] 'covering up' or both? What to do when evidence from tests and Medical R shows that they're just plain 'wrong' [not a word I tend to use]; their sneering arrogance [aka ignorance] is breathtaking. This is too important to leave.
Been thinking this one over. What about a complaint, not GMC, but to the hospital concerned, where the diagnosis is so inaccurate as to be... I've been harmed by steroid and with no informed consent, but a doctor is looking anywhere else than to state it's an Adverse Drug Reaction. This wasn't the doctor involved in the prescribing of, it was a cataract surgery, funded by NHS, which simply didn't do the right thing. They are so loathe even to state that 'one of their own' is responsible for anything... trying to attribute physical illnesses to me, yet ones I've never had. Of course, complaining will only bring out the bigger bully boys to back this one up. Is it worth it because I've certainly suffered and after 15 months, it has still not fully cleared up?
I complained to the hospital but they are covering up for him because they perceive it as cost saving and he is senior. It's going to be a very long process, I was prepared for this and am able to switch off until the next step comes along.
I feel better now after reading this re my complaint to them about my father’s surgeon. The complaint was taken up and investigated and I got an outcome which was not the one I wanted but was better than nothing! After all your always going to want someone struck off if you feel they caused the death of your father!😢
So sorry about your dad. It's now clear that it's important to complain when appropriate. I feel strongly that doctors should be allowed to follow what they believe is best for their patients but this doesn't extend to gross dishonesty or working well outside their specialist knowledge.
I'm so sorry to hear this Jim but you sound as if you've worked out the system, and I thoroughly commend your trying. I will keep following your (hopeful🤞) progress.
Thank you for updating us, and for all your work getting this far.
Sadly, allowing public bodies to mark their own homework is a travesty that allows them to spend resources on silencing complainants and managing them out, rather than benefiting from information provided to make improvements.
The Post Office scandal is a perfect example of this, but there are hundreds more going on every day within the NHS, the Police, etc and regulatory bodies only get involved if there is loss of life - and even then, it seems that no-one ever joins the dots.
I'm sorry that all your efforts have come to nought Jim, but at least it gives you a clearer idea of the processes and the potential way forward.
It's not just the GMC that closes ranks. My Dad and I made a complaint against medical staff who treated my dear Mum appallingly in the last 24 hours of her life, and in response to fundamental failures of equipment, IT systems and procedures.
It took five years in total, required the case to be escalated to the then Healthcare Commission due to the non-compliance of the hospital and their constant delays. It was very clear that the hospital was protecting staff and doing all it could to make us go away.
Eventually, we received an apology and assurances that they would improve their systems and create better methods of checking equipment. My mental and physical health was severely affected, not least because it was happening in the wake of my Mum's sudden death and it prolonged the grieving process.
When my Dad recently died, again a sudden and unexpected death, the same hospital had no idea of the dreadful way in which they dealt with the situation when I was called in at 3 in the morning. I couldn't stomach going through another complaints procedure. I have often thought of writing anonymously but I doubt it would be taken seriously.
We don't stand a chance, though you could argue there was an outcome of sorts in regards to what happened with my Mum's case. But it ended up with me having a breakdown so I paid the cost.
I think they are terrified by the prospect of litigation; in our situation we'd made it very clear that this wasn't the motivation. We just didn't want anyone else to go through what we went through.
So sorry. I anticipate this sort of stalling and go a bit robotic to cope. It's still very important that people challenge them when appropriate. They certainly bind together to protect each other (and not patients).
Just a thought… but have you considered going to The Good Law Project? If all else fails, these people might be able to take up the fight for you. They’re always asking for possible cases to look at, especially if there is actual harm to the public that doesn’t involve huge numbers but beyond an individual’s ability to pay for.
Sad to hear this, jimh - shocking but predictable, I trust, you will continue. The one thing these.... rely on is that people give up, particularly those who are ill. Best wishes!
Hi, and, good for you to keeping on with this. The timing of your post has prompted me to reply with something that's probably relevant though may not seem it. A very dear family friend, aged only 40, was found dead at home a few days ago. She had been sent home and had given up asking her GP and hospital doctors for help because she was being spoken to as if she ought to be able to manage. She died alone. I imagine the 3% the GMC deal with are cases like these and that our thyroid problems are far down the list. Sorry if this sounds disheartening, that's not my intention, I more mean good for you for sticking at it when it's not going to be 'a walk in the park'.
I'm sorry about your friend, it's a tragic situation.I think some of the cass the GMC accepts are surgical mistakes, it's much easier to spot a clear error rather than years of misconduct. A bit unfair.
The other types they investigate are complaints from doctors, regardless of merit - look what happened to Dr Skinner, Dr Durrant-Peatfield and Dr Myhill.
When it comes to complaints from patients it looks like they ignore the first one and only take note if there are subsequent complaints. This is a simple way of reducing workload.
I didn't know those doctors were complained about by colleagues. As for ignoring the first (and maybe more) complaint, we are not being cynical are we, but speaking from experience. I've said it before, but thanks again, for all you do for those of us with thyroid problems, I really appreciate it, and your helpful posts.
The GMC only considers cases where there is 'an ongoing risk to public safety' with 'a realistic prospect of proving ... fitness practice is currently impaired'.Breaches must be 'serious' or 'persistent'. Whether the concerns arise from a single incident or multiple incidents'.
Thus, a patient reporting the first incident is unlikely to have the case investigated unless it is particularly serious.
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
A chance to harass the GMC a bit?
IT'S OFFICIAL - General Medical Council don't care if GPs wrongly diagnose and you're left ill
NHS Complaint Handling
