I've received a reply to the complaint I submitted to Imperial Healthcare last November, see healthunlocked.com/thyroidu... .
It's clear I'm being messed about and they have no intention of carrying out a proper investigation. They obviously try to wear you down. I need to consider futher action such as reporting the doctor to the GMC and possibly suing the trust (ICB). I know how the GMC sticks with the establishment so clearly need legal support.
I've heard of Irwin Mitchell but don't know how good / expensive they are. Does anyone have any recommendations, you can post here or send me a pm if you prefer. I'm looking for someone who is good and will put some effort in, not just go through the motions. Thanks for your support.
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jimh111
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I need to get legal advice before I decide what strategy to take. My local trust referred me to Imperial supposedly to monitor my treatment, FOI requests show it was to discontinue my liothyronine. As a result I suffered dental problems that were very expensive. So, another option is to sue NW London NHS Trust.
hi I need to make a complaint about my gp nhs England has changed it is the ICB
My g p refused to prescribe my medication even though t3 was approved in 2017
4months without I went legal finally spoke with a solicitor and they declined because it hadn’t caused an injury it didn’t matter I was quite I’ll I think the solicitor you mentioned is personal injury they are a big firm I’m still going to make the complaint good luck x
Good luck, hope you are successful. I eventually got T3 (long story), GP not over the moon. However not before my teeth cracked, crumbled and gums receded.
Omg, I'd no idea our teeth can be affected by not having enough of correct dose! I've had to have a lot of dental treatment recently. A crown, a bridge etc.. cost a fortune and I have wondered whether this is connected to the two years my GP AND Endo said I needed reduce Levo because TSH was too low!! Never ever been offered T3, despite having had a total thyroidectomy (20 years ago) For majority of years I'd no idea there was even any other options of hormones, and this site has opened my eyes!!! I also upon diagnosis got forgotten for a good 6 months, left on same high dose of Carbimizole for very o/a thyroid, consequently became very under.. then Endo when seeing how awful I'd become said I think best you come off treatment completely!! Then hair started falling out etc, then I was swinging from over to under. They couldn't balance me. Took whole year then had thyroid removed. I honestly could and should've sued but wasn't in position back then, had young child etc. All this triggered Vitiligo etc and I blame my bad treatment but I just feel what's the point suing I'd never be the person I used to be.. BUT even now still never been offered T3!!! Sorry long response but realisation of teeth being affected another shock to learn.
Gum health affects heart health apparently I understand now. I had to pay for the Genetic test (think it was BH Medical) which evidenced I was poor/non-responder so finally got T3 after 13 years. I had plenty of T4 in blood just none converting and getting into cells. Always on my guard as my GP would stop it if she could due to cost.
I couldn't find any studies on teeth and hypothyroidism other than a couple of old Russian ones! I'm sure it affects teeth and gums and have seen comments from other patients.
Have a look at your household insurance. It might cover you for legal expenses to make a claim. Be sure to check the policy carefully. I issued a claim (non-medical) and had solicitors who were NWNF but then realised I was covered so the NWNF solicitors agreed to insurance funding. However, a few weeks before the claim went to court, the insurers decided I was only covered for £50,000 costs and not £100,000 as they had previously advised. Thus, I had to settle for very little and the stress was awful.
Irwin Mitchel (not my solicitors) do cover medical negligence claims. However, a friend approached them because her cataract operation went wrong. They sent her a reply pages long saying the amount she could recover would not be worth their legal costs. By the way, be very careful because even if you win you do not get all the costs. The maximum the winning party gets is 80% of their costs and they can be huge. That is if you are lucky because sometimes you don't recover the costs at all. It is a minefield.
Thanks. I will check things out. I'm not looking to get compensation rather put a stop to this behaviour. I've now had an offer of some free legal advice so will start with that. The problem is the hospitals and medical bodies are a law unto themselves unless you have some clout behind you.
I used Irwin Mitchell about thirty or forty years ago. (I have destroyed all the paperwork) At that time it was a ‘class action’ on a No win No fee basis. I had never heard of such a thing; although it’s common now. I had pretty much the same view of the law then as of medicine. Trust. It was however very much a business transaction (IMHO) and dependant on the quality of the people involved. Nowadays it’s also similar to how I look at medicine these days - a business transaction dependant on the quality of the people involved. IW are very familiar with these arrangements and I think they were instrumental in collecting the group of people I was involved with in becoming a group in the action. I never met any of the people of the group, only the solicitors.
If I recall there are a number of people on the forum involved with this clinic, who have made contributions to your posting about this. IW might be interested in that aspect too as it is clearly their forte.
Our case was won but it was a hard road. I was likely already hypo at that time, making everything harder.
Thanks for this. It's very difficult for patients, they have relationships with their GPs and need to keep existing care arrangements. This is why I asked Imperial ICB (Trust) to carry out an audit to see how many patients were happy with their care. The doctor claims patients are universally happy with the outcomes and he received an award on this basis. This will be part of my complaint.
Yes the more I become aware of our systems in place, the more wary I am of ‘outcomes’. I have very little faith in the ‘doctor heroes’ or indeed ‘legal heroes’, the stuff we seem to be fed through TV books etc.
I think now, especially the people who put themselves up for this kind of recognition, are mostly ‘small brains’. That need for accolades I find very suspect. Whatever happened to doing the job to the best of your ability? Being self aware enough to sense that what you are doing really contributes and not that need for a puffed up sense of self. It’s obscene and it seems to me us hypothyroids see doctors in that particularly ugly light all too often.
As I say going the legal route is a business transaction above all else. You seem like the kind of person in the first place not easily swayed by nonsense. You could be just exactly the kind of person to sort this out.
I was reading an interesting piece about ‘wounded healers’ yesterday. “Unherd”. Sorry still can’t work out how to put up a reference. It was referencing the recent trial of Lucy Letsby. Whilst I did not agree altogether with what was said, it’s worth a read for another take on the humanity (or perhaps more accurately inhumanity) in the business of healing.
Good luck. We are probably following this with bated breath.
My experience of no win no fee lawyers - others may have had v different experiences - is that they might put your case on the back burner indefinitely, become very hard / impossible to track down, tell you implausible things (eg. because the defendant is not replying to letters, that means they don’t live there / exist), suggest you settle for very little .. I was as you can tell not impressed.
Not sure how you are planning to hire these solicitors - if NWNF or on a fee-earning hourly rate.
I would also, in your shoes, try to look up some similar legal cases to get a feel for the case law and the principles. Everything will be decided on the facts but it helps to know what is essential.
“Tell you implausible things”. Sounds very much like another bunch of so-called professionals us hypothyroids need to have too much contact with. Medics in case anyone was wondering.
No win no fee might be good for litigation which I might consider as a secondary action later but as you hint at it could undermine more immediate needs. I like to keep control so it will probably be paid by the hour
I’d suggest that - as with estate agents - you speak to a couple and size them up (fees / usefulness / experience / aptitude) and see who you like best.
Oh wow. I wish you every success going up against them... They usually have access to very large legal depts. Rubbish really.... Whatever happened to honour and integrity....lol.
have you asked any of the thyroid organisations if they are putting together a class action, as such? I’d be really interested to know more, if they are. Long overdue.
I once contacted Irwin Mitchel over medical negligence. They were super keen as I had received a letter admitting it from the Consultant. No win, no fee basis. I arrived to an initial meeting to find myself in a conference room full of 'experts!'. I was shocked. They were very excited by my letter & keen but actually all they were really interested in was my loss of earnings. I had none as was covered by paid sick leave. End of case. As soon as they realised they were like a bunch of deflated balloons. They cherry pick. If you have a cast iron clear case and they can make easy money they're in but any shades of grey forget it.
good morning, you could try Slater and Gordon. They won a case recently, either for b12 or thyroid, can’t remember this morning, brain fog. I am sure it was reported on HealthUnlocked recently. Good luck.
It was a B12 case and they are working on more of these at the moment. They are the no win no fee company and if they accept the case they are good at doing all the research and really going for it.
And I am not surprised at all. The B12 deficiency and Pernicious anaemia diagnosis and treatment is really an even bigger scandal than the thyroid one we all know. I am sorry for your wife's friend's loss but it happens a lot more often than people realise and the worst part is that it is really easily preventable and treatable but doctors are too ignorant and arrogant to accept it.
It's worse now because doctors arrange telephone consultations. Often in the past a patient would turn up with a health problem and as part of their basic examination the doctor would spot some other condition.
Working from home delivers a kind of flexibility many doctors haven’t experienced before, so have unsurprisingly welcomed it.
But if you can’t see your patient’s lump or rash, take their temperature, give them a urine sample bottle, notice their shortness of breath in person .. you’ve not done all of what you would have done when you could see the whites of their eyes without a screen between you.
Is there any way you can find any other people who have been to this clinic and then had Lio refused? A lone voice is often ignored or stamped on, but a number of voices is more challenging to them. As they stated that all patients were happy with their treatment, do a FOI for number of patients for a given time, number of patients denied Lio, and medical outcomes for these patients. Prove the patients were happy if they claim this!
I can bet they do not do a follow up to see what harm they are doing. Good luck.
I did a FOI request whatdotheyknow.com/request/... . The answers are lies, this is another issue I have to take up. I asked them to do an audit on the claims the patients were happy but they have ignored my request.
I pay for legal cover through my home and buildings insurance. A number of years ago I had cause to use it (not medical), and it was Irwin Mitchell I was referred to. You may have legal cover through home insurance, which would at least allow you a free consultation with a law firm and advice. They only fight a case for you if they think you have a set % chance of winning the case, which is where you would probably be refused. Even if they would not pursue it for you, if they were prepared to send a legal letter on your behalf, it might give the clinic/ medical doctor, pause for thought, and you may get somewhere it they think it would be wise to avoid any further hassle from you.
As others have suggested, if you could prove that you are not alone in your complaint, and it is a national scandal, and could back up your complaint with expert opinion, and testimomy that may help. The video of Lorraine's fight re. thyroid medications at which Diogenes gave evidence to the Scottish Parliament would be a good illustration of the historical problems attached to prescribing thyroid medication other than levo only, to give a lawyer an overall view of what has been going on.
Ideally, if you could get accepted as a "pro bono" case that would be ideal, or no win, no fee.
It would also help, if a lawyer with personal experience of thyroid problems could be identified.
That's a great idea and would indeed explain why they are so reluctant to carry out a patient audit. I'm beginning to think I should go to the GMC first and if successful the information uncovered and publicity might lay the ground for a class action. This would put an end to such nonsense. Thanks.
I'm afraid I can't help you with costs of Irwin Mitchell, but know they are good as my son is under them for the Creudzfeldt Jakob Disease problem when Human Growth Hormone was used until 1983. He was classed as one of the 'walking worried' because he had been on HGH for 7 years by then. He was not paid anything because being Learning Disabled he was said to not understand the problems. We did that for him! Many people were paid and we still have letters to prove what happened if anything occurs in the future. As I have been to the Health Ombudsman with a problem that occurred when we were changed from Goldshield Eltroxin to Mercury Pharma Levothyroxine, I know that they do wear you down and I have opted out of any further action with them. I can only hope their consciouses get to them eventually.
Thanks. I knew they would try to wear me down so having gone through the initial complaints I just waited and got on with other things. I had factored in the delaying tactics, it just makes me a bit more determined.
Sorry nightingale this is for @jimh111 mainly but I have noted what you say. Can’t remember how long it took to sort out my case but it was a good number of years. It’s not just the wearing you down, you have to be constantly alert for when they get back you. Usually weeks and months in between activity. This means you are constantly ‘re-living’ the issues and not getting on with the rest of your life, as well as you maybe could. Just like my honest experience of daily living with hypothyroidism. I think I was even hypothyroid then. It’s not easy but someone will do it. As I said before you jimh111 seem to me to be an ideal person. Head screwed on etc.
Thanks. I will probably put off litigation for now as it is so complex. I have a solicitor contact who can give some advise and I will also see what my MP can do. I have a strategy in mind but don't want to reveal as this is a public forum.
Personally I think you will be wasting your time with all the lawyers mentioned and any others too. I contacted them all to ask them to take on a case when my fathers surgeon failed to warn him that a rare side effect of the surgery he was about to undergo could cause an MI especially in men of his age. Two weeks later he did have one and a month later died after not recovering.
I lodged a formal complaint with the hospital where the operation was done stating how much I wanted in damages which was mainly the cost of the surgery and hospital treatment and then turned to the GMC to make a formal complaint about the Doctor himself. They have a set procedure which you have to follow.
If your complaint has merit it moves to the next stage where it is formally investigated and I was given the option of having his case examined (medical records) by a very senior independent person. I investigated the person who was suggested and decided that they were sufficiently removed from the specialty involved but experianced enough to be impartial. I had an hour long telephone conversation with them and they asked me at the end what I thought should have happened and what should happen in the future. They also asked me what punishment would be fair in the circumstances after explaining what could and could not happen.
A written report was sent to me a week or so later. The surgeon was reprimanded and found guilty for not properly caring out the risk assessments. He will be monitored for the rest of his working life and that result will follow him. Also my understanding is that they are implementing set standards for doing the consent procedure as I said it should be done.
I then took that report back to the hospital and used it to make a financial settlement.
It didn’t cost me anything to do the above except time, emails and research, all of which I’m sure you are capable of doing yourself. The legal people won’t touch it because there is not enough money in it for them.
That's useful. An outcome like yours would be sufficient for me as it would put a stop to this behaviour and I might even get NHS liothyronine. I'm not bothered about compensation which may help as they no doubt factor it in their calculations regarding whether they think someone will take it further.
Useful to know. I think any publicity would have to wait until and if it gets to a Fitness to Practice hearing. I think the GMC would turn awkward if they felt they were being pressured into a decision to refer him to FTP. His defence could also make something of it
Fair enough. I still think we need to make a bigger song and dance about poor treatment of thyroid patients. Look how much money is being invested in obesity medicine now with the weight loss jabs. We need similar action.
The biggest issue is thyroid patient groups have no real backing or funding whilst obesity groups were being bankrolled by the makers of the weight loss jabs
Sorry to hear this... you know that old expression, "All P in the same pot"? Well, worse than that, medics are EVEN WORSE than lawyers... yes, unimaginable!? Think about it, they cover the back of one another hourly, daily... so rarely need the services of a lawyer. I wish you the very best in this, pleased to see that you have taken this step and will continue. Once more, we need a Patients Union.
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Doctors can’t delist patients for complaining 
Does anyone have any valid, reliable research papers that i could use to reference a heavy letter of complaint to the GMC?
Complaining ..
Another Dr Skinner/Peatfield style case
Concerned that my GPs are still not taking my condition seriously, what should I do? 
