Following on from my previous post on how despite weight loss, regular weight training and muscle gain coupled with a lowish carb diet (c50g per day) my blood sugar has not reduced whilst my thyroid levels are pretty good and I feel much better: healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
After seeing my private Endo today he's simply told me I have the "diabetes gene" via parents and that's the cause of the high sugar, given that everything else I am doing should be bringing it down.
We had a debate about whether Metformin or Ozempic could be a treatment option, however I am very reluctant to add yet more medicines into the mix.
Any advice would be appreciated. I know some people have had success on Berberine.
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Wired123
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how about trying the Zoe device to see which foods spike your sugars? According to the founder Prof Tim Spector it can vary wildly. May be a good way to get some more info on your own biological responses?
That's actually a really good point. Maybe it's something in my diet that is causing the spikes that I am unaware of despite believing I am eating the "right" things.
I drink a lot of protein shakes, I have read that it can spike sugar for some people despite being low carb and high protein.
Prevention through diet is so much better than "curing" with medications.
When you say Zoe device do you mean a CGM? I actually have a spare one at home that's been sat unused so I could experiment on myself.
My understanding from listening to a couple of podcasts is the Zoe device/plan is more than a glucose monitor but I’ve not gone into it too deep, maybe check out the details. If it is just a CGM you could probably use your own one and keep track without paying someone to interpret results!
My hubby has also got inherited Type 2 diabetes which he has had now for around 30 years. He recommends that you see the U-Tube videos by Dr David Unwin which are very informative. He also tried out recently having a continuous glucose monitor for a month which was around £150 for a month which he found interesting but still didn't think it was as accurate as having an Acu Check Meter and strips. Foods certainly can play a big part in sugar spikes - he eats a low carb diet in the main and knows now what foods to avoid. I'm also on a gluten, dairy, soy, caffeine free diet for my thyroid and we manage to integrate it all to suit us both for our evening meal. Hope this helps!
Thanks, I’ve actually seen David and his wife live at an event they spoke at. They are both very good at what they do.
I’m already following the low carb approach, yes I guess I could go a bit lower (or totally no carb) but it does not suit me and is not sustainable. I have tried it before a few times.
Yeh, not good to have no carbs because your thyroid meds need a certain amount to work properly. Also it can difficult to maintain ketosis with past adrenal issues, so with no carbs you risk gluconeogenesis when your liver creates glucose from non-carb sources such as lactate, glycerol, and glucogenic amino acids. This is what keeps our blood sugars stable at night during a long fasting sleep but if used when it shouldn't be too often, it can become sensitive and over compensate, eg make too much glucose.
If you are still getting high blood glucose levels with low carb and eating enough fat and protein, then it could be remaining adjustment of the muscle - (non/low)glucose use, and again a form of gluconeogenesis that should improve.
We also need the exact amount of T3. Too high will ramp up gluconeogenesis, where as too little reduces and may also be compounded by compromised adrenals and inadequate cortisol. And even with the right amount of T3, if you have previously been deficient for many years, these systems and the insulin/leptin changes take time to reverse.
I agree you don't want high blood glucose/insulin levels but if you have seen other improvements I would feel confident these could be the last remaining issues that will improve with time. I was slim and it still took me about 6-12 months to re-educate my blood glucose systems that went high after first introducing T3. I found berberine and glucofit very helpful.
I loved wearing the CGM as it made me mindful over my whole eating practice again. I'm glad you are feeling better.
I’m going to look into Berberine as quite a few people on the forum have had good results.
Did you take Glucofit together with Berberine? It’s the first time I’ve heard of it but looking online it certainly seems to be another avenue to explore.
I’d second trying ZOE, if you can get a spot on their program. I did it solidly for 12 weeks and have decided to keep going with it. Not because it helped me lose weight, which it didn’t really (only 2kg) but because of what it teaches me about nutrition. It looks at not just blood glucose but blood fats and microbiome, all of which they reckon are interlinked. I got a lot of info from the CGM monitor, but the biggest Ah-has were from my results. I thought I had the perfect diet. I was wrong!
One thing stands out from what you’ve said that applied to me too: protein shakes. I assume you use protein powder? In the ZOE picture of the world, protein powder is an ultra processed food that affects our microbiome in ways they don’t yet wholly understand. I’ve been challenging myself to find more natural forms of protein to snack on. Hard boiled eggs, full fat Fage are two.
I haven’t got on top of my thyroid issues yet but for now at least I seem to have staved off insulin resistance.
I think I’m going to have to try Zoe as so many on this forum are raving about it.
I see what you’re saying about the protein powder. Yes it’s processed but it also does have a lot of good proprieties too. I’m loosing weight so I think I’m at least doing something right. Have a look at my response below to another member where I detail what’s in my shake.
It’s great that you’ve staved off the insulin resistance, what was in that you learned from Zoe that was your aha moment? Was that the muffin/cookie test?
For me, ZOE has been a new paradigm in thinking about health. Away from seeing foods as bad or good, and thinking about the effect they have on my own biology.
One of my biggest personal insights was that I have BOTH poor blood sugar control AND poor blood fats control, therefore if I don’t eat in ways that respect this, it will create inflammation in my body, along with its associated health effects. Foods that I once thought were “healthy” for me, appear not in fact to be, or not in the way I was eating them. Just one example is lean pork chops that I used to eat with jacket potatoes, butter and some kind of green vegetables. The chop, potato and butter all have poor scores for me (and this whole meal totally spiked me CGM when doing the experiments). But if I eat a smaller chop with green beans, peas and olive oil, it doesn’t have anything like the same effect.
It’s also cumulative. So, if you haven’t cleared fats from earlier in the day or a blood sugar spike hasn’t gone back down wholly, the impact builds up. On many days doing the experiments my scores were high in the evening.
How much stress you’ve got going on, also has an impact. So it’s not all about food.
Luckily, I had a reasonable microbiome score which mitigated some of the issues and I’ve been using a lot of the ZOE advice for getting it higher as I’d like it to stay that way. Going to do a retest of that soon.
I saw your comment below about protein smoothies. Your recipe does look good and I could be well off the mark in pointing it out. But for me, protein powder is something I now only have max once or twice a week (and not daily as I used to). Because on my ZOE scores the very lovely vegan protein I was using (FORM) scores low, primarily because it’s a manufactured product.
ZOE has lots of free resources you can use, including a podcast I find interesting. Separately, if you’re interested in food and its impact on health, I’ve just finished reading a book called Ultra Processed People by Chris van Tulleken, which was about as eye-opening for me as ZOE has been.
My husband listened on Audible and said "you must read this". We've read a lot of books about the food industry in the past so of course I agreed. It's an enjoyable read, but I'm also trying to read the Bianco thyroid book at the same time, and a novel, so it's taking a while!
Definitely 2, and if not 3 then lining up what I’m reading next!
Interesting about Bianco’s book. That’s on my list. I saw a video on YouTube (I think!) of him presenting what I imagine was some of the content. It was quite interesting.
After my recent blood test I was told I was pre diabetic because my blood sugars looked high. I later read an article that said blood sugars were the highest between 4 - 8 am. which incidentally was the exact time of my blood test. It said that pomegranate juice brings blood sugar levels down fast.
So I bought a bottle of the unsweetened version thinking it was probably the best one to try, but it wasn’t very pleasant to drink and I won’t be buying any more.
I am smiling about this diabetes gene. Perhaps the Endo would like to have your DNA tested. Are/were your parents overweight or have diabetes? Yes, we all realise that some people are naturally skinny which is often due to nervous energy and some people are from stocky races rather than tall Scandinavians but UK races are more prone to diabetes. Other than perhaps to reassure you that it is not your fault as there is plenty of the blame game out there surrounding diabetes and weight.
Check out some diabetes diets, they can be successful but conditions like Thyroid problems and Polycystic ovary syndrome will make them less effective.
Do you need Protein shakes? Think also about artificial sweeteners, there is some evidence that artificial sweeteners can fool your body into thinking it is sugar and look out for hidden sugars. My nursing daughter always says to drink more water. Good luck.
most protein shakes contain a lot of sugar. I second the comment above about them being ultra processed food. The Zoe approach is that a healthy biome produces short chain fatty acids that regulate insulin sensitivity, so there is a long term advantage to reducing sugar (including processed carbs) beyond the immediate effect of introducing less glucose into the blood stream. Lots of vegetables as well to feed the good bacteria.
Muscles process the glucose and improve insulin sensitivity but you are already doing that.
The Zoe approach is indeed interesting, very holistic and tailored to the individual.
My protein shake details are below, it’s as clean as possible but agree it is still a processed food after all. It does however increase GLP-1 levels and that’s also something to consider when it comes to hunger, satiety and weight loss.
Good question. I take a clean and unflavoured/plain protein powder (has no sugar or sweetener) and then add the following:
Peanut butter - fat and protein
Avocado - healthy fat
Flax seed
Turmeric powder
Oats (gluten free) - only a spoonful is to give a tiny bit y of carbs to the shake
Dollop of Greek yoghurt - protein and fat
Tiny bit of fruit - flavour and carbs
Cacao powered (no sugar or sweetener)
Water or milk
In theory a very filling and low carb/sugar option with lots of health fats. It does keep me full for ages and I feel well after having this for breakfast.
Protein powder and avocado are also supposed to increase GLP-1 which promotes feeling of fullness (note weight loss drugs like Semaglutide work by artificially increasing GLP-1).
I don’t see anything in your smoothie that would cause a major sugar spike …. I do sorta of the same type of smoothie but I add chopped frozen broccoli and spinach to my smoothie.
It could be a medication your taking if your on medication that could be causing issues with sugar or maybe you just have the gene.
You may also be interested in this post (by me) about HBa1C tests not reflecting underlying blood glucose levels. My HBa1C was 33 but the continuous blood sugar monitor told a different and pre-diabetic story. Some members have disputed my analysis of the article that I linked so make your own mind up. My understanding is that levo will return Hba1C to normal levels but that is not a true reflection of blood glucose levels.
In May I started to eat very high veggie, lowish carb diet. Still eating carbs in lentils, beans and fibrous veg. No potatoes or sweet potatoes, no rice, no oats. I have lost 2 stone and I do eat rice sometimes these days. No doubt it also co-incides with getting somewhere near optimal on my T3 dose.
Edit, the reason for cutting out oats, rice etc is just that the body processes the glucose in them quickly which would lead to glucose spikes, which would generate insulin, which pushes glucose into the fat cells. Nothing special otherwise about oats, rice etc except that my main aim was to reduce spikes and insulin.
The book Glucose Goddess is good on how to reduce spikes and insulin.
Hi, great news you have lost so much weight! I’ve got the Glucose Goddess book (read it twice!). I’ve been trying to follow most of her recommendations which is why it’s so frustrating that my sugars are still stubbornly high!
I do eat some carbs at every meal but keep the portion very small so that I’m not spiking too much. Going totally low carb doesn’t work so well for me so this way I keep my sugars stable - I read on another thread that if you’re hypothyroid then your body struggles to raise blood sugar when required (like a normal healthy person would) hence I like to drip feed a tiny bit of carbs throughout the day.
Interesting what you say about Levo impacting HbA1C results. I’m going to try the CGM myself and see what I can discover.
I think the main thing about the GCM is it will show you which foods you thought were good were actually bad and which ones you thought were bad are actually good. Takes the guess work out of it. Probably end up on watercress.
Personally i wouldn't go with the drip feed of carbs idea. That will keep insulin also consistently high whereas the aim is to starve insulin of stimulus. Zoe /Dr Tim Spector say the body can process glucose best in the morning so avoid in the evening. He also advices intermittent fasting/restricted hours as that creates a larger window with no spike at all. I have grilled bacon and scrambled eggs for breakfast and feel like the cat who got the cream. No more 'healthy' muesli for me.
Hmm, I’ve tried the low carb/no carb approach and it really doesn’t work well for me. I don’t feel so well and then also rebound really badly.
My current diet is working for me in terms of keeping sugars stable (so no crashes) and my weight is steadily coming off whilst I also gain muscle.
I think I’ll try Zoe next as cannot risk going too low carb and rebounding badly as I have in the past.
You make an interesting point about time of day, maybe another thing I can discover on the CGM. I’ve read conflicting things about whether we are more glucose sensitive in the morning. Guess we are all different and it will be interesting to try a pizza for breakfast and see how different that is to a pizza for dinner. A tasty experiment nonetheless 😜
Pearl, that's really interesting. My hba1c was 33 at last check in January but when I tracked my blood glucose with a monitor is almost always high after I'd eaten. I couldn't make sense of it not reflecting in my hba1c.
I last checked in March, for about a week, and it was between 5.8 & 6.2 (using a blood monitor rather than a CGM.) So not hugely high but always had high gluose 2 hours after eating.
Wired123 - you exercise daily, in the gym? Much anaerobic exercise will spike bloodsugars. Did you exercise before the blood tests? And why are you especially worried at the fluctuations if you're within range? You are losing weight and feel good. That in itself is fabulous.
Hello, I do 2-3 sessions a week in the gym and a bit of walking. So not a huge amount of exercise a week and I have a desk job so quite sedentary otherwise.
I’m worried about high HbA1C as clearly my sugars aren’t coming down despite all my efforts. This worries me for the future
You might be surprised to know but some people on low carb diets actually end up with elevated blood sugar.
Sounds counterintuitive but if you do not have enough blood glucose in circulation for your needs your body through gluconeogenesis create this through glycogen stores and even breaking down muscle. Being too low carb can negatively affect thyroid hormone production too. That’s why diet is all very personal to the individual. You could even try a continuous glucose monitor to measure your response to foods.
But overall your carbohydrate intake is very low. It’s probably worth just having the carbs at meal times rather than drip feeding constantly. Also the sequence in which you consume your food can matter hugely. So if you start your meal with vegetables followed with proteins and fat and then starchy carbohydrates that will lessen the glucose spike than eating it all together or the other way round.
No harm in you trying berberine. I can't 100% say that's what's helped me as at the same time I changed brand of t3 which now really suits.Something changed since starting both of them in June that never happened before and I feel it has something to do with insulin resistance and fatty liver, but I am just guessing
🤣 Morningside T3. Was horrendous on Mercury pharma. Battling with chemist to get it is now my problem even though it's print on script Morningside only.
I have history to sensitivities and allergic reactions to medications.I was given Mercury pharma first couple of scripts even though Endo said I should try Morningside. It really did make me feel awful to the point I was going to try liquid t4 yet again. Then I got Morningside and the difference was unbelievable. I'm just constantly battling to get it now. It's not a supply issue but a cost issue with chemist and them not able to specify what brand he wants delivering.
Not tried thybon but don't want to risk reaction again when every is perfect
Hi Wired, I normally get my magnesium fully through my diet but a few weeks ago started taking an added magnesium supplement before bed to help with sleep issues, and within a week started to have really quite bothersome low blood sugar issues (at least what seemed to be low blood sugar; did not have it tested) throughout the day. Took a while to connect the two but then looked it up and came across articles like this one: healthline.com/nutrition/is...
Stopped taking the magnesium and the issue (thankfully!) resolved a few days later. So, maybe for you, some added magnesium could be helpful?
Actually was going to write a post about this because the impact of a just a single 100 mg pill nightly for a week was surprisingly strong — actually used to get episodes like this years ago when taking magnesium regularly but just never considered the possibility of any connection between the two.
For what it’s worth, though I may be more sensitive to various ingredients than most, I find different magnesium pills have vastly different effects (even the same form of magnesium formulated by different brands), but the one that has seemed to consistently lower my blood sugar was Doctor’s Best Magnesium lysinate glycinate tablets: iherb.com/pr/doctor-s-best-... (name corrected)
Unfortunately didn't have easy access to either one that at the time, and luckily was able to resolve it within a week or so by making the connection. Would love to know how it goes when you do the test, if you do try it.
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