Any thoughts on this NDT ? It is very cheap compared to other !
Thyroid S ?: Any thoughts on this NDT ? It is... - Thyroid UK
Thyroid S ?
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Yorkshireman356
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What would be the recommended dose as I now take 125mg Levothyroxine ?
Getting thyroid and vitamin levels tested
Before doing anything else
Will do 🏋️♂️
helvellaAdministrator
If you are considering Thyroid S, you might care to have a look here:
Thyroid S Batches
A summary of known and suspected potency of Thyroid S batches.
helvella.blogspot.com/p/thy...
Last updated 2023/05/31
Interesting thanks 🇪🇦
always saddened by the loss of the other Thai thyroid meds, especially Thiroid which for me worked so much better than Thyroid-S.
Now with that link, i'd be worried about trying Thyroid-S again. (especially with its price hike)
No thyroid hormone replacement works well until your vitamins and minerals are optimal and that's partly why I've suggested getting the full thyroid panel.
There are no short cuts, and we need to know all these blood test results and ranges first and you need this information to understand what your next best steps forward will be from the advice and considered opinion you will receive from forum members once we have the relevant information.
Will do this and let you know 🇪🇦
SeasideSusieRemembering
If you buy any be very careful who you order from. Before parting with any money please send a PM to one of us Admins to see if we have any feedback on the supplier you're thinking of using. Don't ask on the forum, we can't name suppliers on the forum but you can ask an Admin in a private message/chat.
Admin can't recommend suppliers but can pass on any feedback we may have received. There are some scammers out there so we need to be careful.
Excellent thanks 🇪🇦
My experience of Thyroid S is that it a good NDT, cheaper than Armour or NatureThroid. Sadly supplies were limited during the last 3 year malarkey so I'm currently on Levo. Looking to go back on NDT and feeling better.
🏋️♂️👍🏻
I feel best on NDT. ... I take THyroid S when I can get it. ... I have taken it off and on for a long time. ... When I can't get Thyroid S, I have a prescription for Armour from my doctor.
what dose are you on of thyroid s and do you take it twice a day or once? I’m currently experimenting with it and have good days and bad
I take 125 once in a morning.
Ive been taking it for many (about 20) years. It’s absolutely fine in my experience and I have had no problems with consistency. I store mine in the freezer, removing about a month’s worth at a time to keep at room temperature. There is only one tablet size so I cut mine into quarters with a pill splitter. Quite fiddly but doable.
When I first started I calculated amounts really carefully but in truth there is no way of knowing what dose will be right. In my case I don’t convert levo well to T3 and react badly to liothyronine. I worked it out entirely on symptoms originally because at the time I had no access to testing, but found I needed far less NDT than the theoretical equivalent to levo because the NDT actually works! Nowadays I get testing including free T3 via my GP although that in itself can require lots of negotiation and explanation.
The big challenge when you buy powerful medication online is working with your GP. Things are way better nowadays than they were when I started out but I still have to explain what I am doing and why each time I encounter someone new because my TSH is always zero. It helps to rehearse a succinct story for these occasions, so that you can explain when necessary.
Thanks, I will have the needed blood test from my Dr who is very understanding 🏋️♂️👍
Great when you have an understanding GP👌👌 I've not been good on the last two batches of thyroid S so I'm giving Armour a go . Endo gave me a private prescription so hoping this will work better ☺️
I have only seen him once for my Bipolar and he was great. Let's see how he is with the thyroid.
I had no clue Thyroid S has been manufactured for twenty years, wow.Happy that it has worked well for you.
Precisely my experience also, Ruthi! Thyroid-S worked well for me but for arrhythmias. I tried to supplement a little t4 levo, 12.5mcgs, because t3 was likely creating some heart issues. Not sure this is a good idea . I do not wish to take a drug like diltiazem.
I am still not back to my "normal" after 30 days off meds to see what condition my pituitary was in. It was great, but thyroid was shot. I cannot seem to raise even a little more on t3 without those heart responses. I am on 90mgs.Thyroid S with the 12.5mcgs levo . When I lower to 75mgs., it is too little for my overall good feeling . I do not know where to go from here.
what dose do you take of thyroid S? I’m currently experimenting with it … do you take it in one dose or split ?
I take 1.75 tablets, more I get jittery, less I sleep! I take it as a single dose on waking. I did try splitting the dose but saw no improvement
I did suffer from heart arrhythmias for a while but it turned out to be due to eye drops I was given.
thank you ! And May I ask do you take it on an empty stomach? I tried having it alone in the morning on an empty stomach and it makes me soo jittery I can’t take it … I also can’t take more then 1 in the morning or else I can’t calm down … I find I can tolerate after food only. Also do you drink coffee? I love it but it doesn’t seem to love me back after switching to thyroid s …
I take it before we go to gym at 5am and after coming home have a tasty breakfast.
it's that time again. I've an appointment with my endo on the 4th July. She, so it's a new understudy, outlined what we'll be discussing. Have my thyroid cut out or burnt out, which I've said again I don't want. Or stay on meds, Levo n carbim. She and I have suggested we try stopping all my meds again. I'm currently on block n replace.
What seems strange is all the understudies all say we'll have you on NDT if you have it removed as if it's just another med and one that's not purchased privately. So I'm a bit puzzled why you guys still have to buy your supply privately. Or am I missing something here.
Very much missing that the hospital doctors have almost no say at all once you revert to GP care.
Indeed, unless the hospital doctor prescribes desiccated thyroid, you might not get a single prescription for it.
A GP who is unfamiliar might balk when they see its price, or check local prescribing policies (ICS/ICB), or discuss with colleagues.
Even if you start out getting it, it is all too likely you will find it refused at some point. Each and every time you get another GP involved is a particular point of danger. Whether that is due to your GP being on holiday, moving on, you being changed to a different GP, etc.
And even if you get a prescription, you might find some pharmacies not very helpful in dispensing it!
Hence many end up without or buying privately by various routes.
• in reply tohelvella
….. and when you buy privately and, when asked from where, say ‘Thailand’ beware the look of shock and horror on the faces of hospital doctors. They have no idea what NDT is anyway. Combine that with the fact that they think you’re buying some sort of snake oil from far off lands and you’re on a hiding to nothing.
I’ve just come out of hospital and kept my Thyroid S in my hand bag and self medicated each morning at 7 am. Fighting your corner about your thyroid hormones is so stressful.
Yorkshireman356• in reply to
Yes you are correct. Thanks for your reply.
Thanks, I now know where to buy it.
Have you checked the supplier with one of the Admin team via PM? We can't emphasise enough how very important this is.
I will check with Admin once I get bloods back from Gp. I will post results once I get back to uk.
• in reply toYorkshireman356
I just don’t understand this. We’re asked to communicate privately about sources of hormones. Then we’re advised to check with admin that it’s a known source and there’s no evidence of scam.
If TUK can’t be seen to promote purchase of non prescription meds (which is understandable) then it makes no sense that the forum admin are involving themselves in the matter at all.
I’m sure there are legitimate sources which they know nothing about. It could be said that they’re promoting certain sources
LLamedosx
Neither ThyroidUK nor the Admin team are promoting any sources of supply and I'm sure you know that we cannot and do not do this.
I'm sure you also know that the Admin team are sent feedback by forum members from time to time, good and bad, on suppliers. If any member asks us if we have any knowledge of xxxx supplier (xxxx could be anyone, we may have heard of them and we may not) then we can tell them if we have had any feedback from other members. We do not recommend any supplier nor do we recommend any that we have had good feedback on, we just pass on what other members have said.
If you wanted to buy thyroid hormone without prescription and knew no reliable suppliers, and you asked on the forum for members to send you information, would you know which members to trust and which suppliers to trust? Wouldn't you rather ask a member you could trust, ie a member of the Admin team, if they had any feedback on them, or would your rather risk wasting your money?
• in reply toSeasideSusie
I take your point.
I refer to them all as the keeper of the goods. And usually mumble I am not asking for cocaine from the street corner.
My former GP had told me she had quite a few patients on NDT.
And then denied me on the next visit. I said I thought you just told me you had patients on NDT? She said I do but no prescriptions from me - I have no clue where they are getting it from (We do! Thank God).
You can't write this crap.
I just spoke to a pharmacist this week about it all. She said You should be worried about getting drugs from Thailand.
Nah, thousands are doing it year after year. And she goes but Why?
And the discussion was interesting. I said they force us. They are the keeper of the goods, do not care if you feel like crap & act like NDT is like voodoo and Cytomel is going to kill us.
And God love her she sighed, "They are just protecting themselves at times instead of taking care of their patients".
• in reply toLitatamon
My daughter-in-law is a doc in Thailand. That’s good enough for me.
It’s disgraceful that they won’t prescribe the necessary meds and that we have resort to buying from our own sources which they then have the audacity to question.
I don’t think that they realise how many of us buy NDT because we can’t get NDT or T3 from NHS. I’d be interested to know how many would still use NDT if they could access T3 for equivalent T3/Levo comb dosing.
Litatamon• in reply to
It is insane. And the person who said it is at times a comrade in this nonsense, as a pharmacist. And it is not like there are not highly qualified people all over this world, in many countries that are simply running a business & thank God at the same time filling in our gap as well - as well as their own population, that should of course be a priority and focus. And this pharmacist is an immigrant to Canada herself, would she question her own country of origin's medication?!?
Unsure.
I will continue to let her know how difficult it all is - because besides the first comment - I know she is interested and cares.
I will start a new thread at some point but somehow I have recently obtained an endocrinologist who listens (and questions me too) and actually says "How would you like to move.forward?".(Ie..a proper prescription for NDT or adding Cytomel) And even after he questioned my one good lab out of five, a la why not that? Because I can not function through a day sir, so what good is one good lab if I can not.
Thank God I had already taken Thyroid S to know clearly it was levothyroxine that was the issue (And besides compounding, which I can not afford,, Canada has no lactose-free levothyroxine, which could be the issue)
Can you imagine my shock? Laughing. But then I realized I could not afford both his open options because I personally need such large amounts of hormones.
But how hopeful!
He even told me I do not care how you got the NDT. Laughing. I wanted to hug him. I just had an appointment and said to him Sir there are thousands of me, I can not thank you enough for you listening and having impactful conversations.
Looking at advice to go dairy free, and it made me realise I have for the last month been consuming 3 x protein shakes a day which contains cows milk !!!
• in reply toYorkshireman356
But you don’t yet know whether dairy is an ‘issue’ for you.
There is so much advice to eliminate various aspects of one’s diet. This should be done after testing not ‘ad hoc’
Yorkshireman356• in reply to
Just trying to figure out how my mood has changed !
protein shakes often have soya in
Soya impacts thyroid hormones
Mad innit ?
Maybe ask for your endo's thoughts on the following research papers ;
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/338...
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/306...
I don't presently have an endo.
No I know you don't - I was replying to Billyboy2u :
I will also to the rest of this post. Lol. As said they talk as if it's free off the NHS. Plus there's no problem with your GP getting it after they've whipped my thyroid out. Lol. Thanks. That research papers good too.
My wife gas been using it for 5 years now. It's pure natural hormone without any additive. Never had any problems with it. With all other synthetic hormones she did not feel wel. With this one, she is very happy.
There is no such thing available as 'pure natural hormone without any additive'. There has to be some additives (excipients) in order to make it into a pill.
The pills are very small compared to Armour and It seems to me to be nothing but "thyroid". ... I took Armour for years, then in 2009 they changed the "filler" that made the pills larger (and held them together???) and Armour then no longer worked for me at all.
If you are talking about Thyroid-S then it's always been difficult to find a list of ingredients but was purported to have more excipients than any other NDT, however this list is said to come direct from the manufacturer so it seems to be quite far from "nothing but thyroid":
Thyroid extract USP
Lactose (a milk sugar and is a filler)
PVP K90 (Polyvinylpyrolidone; water soluble coating/binder)
Avicel (microcrystalline cellulose)
Aerosil (silicic acid powder)
Sodium starch glycolate
Magnesium stearate
Eudragit
Methocel
Talcum
Ponceau 4r lake
Tartrazine lake
Brilliant blue FCF lake
Sunset yellow FCF
Titanium dioxide
PEG 6000
Dimethicone solution
That's quite a liat! I don't know how they cram all that into those very smal pills!
it has a lot of additives, too many for me, titanium dioxide is allegedly a hormone disruptor, not ideal if trying to optimise hormones perhaps
Wow !
• in reply toYorkshireman356
Might be worth looking at number of excipients in OTC and prescribed drugs before panicking.
Ooooh !
From most of the posters I have seen most are happy with them.
It depends on who has recommended them. See this post:
The amount of thyroid hormone (T4, T3 or any combination you care to mention), in a typical daily dose (e.g. up to 200 micrograms), would be SMALLER than a single grain of granulated sugar.
Every single thyroid hormone medicine that has ever been created consists of the active ingredients and other substances. Synthetic ingredients will be almost perfectly pure. Thyroid USP (and similar) contain much additional protein and other substances (including a diluent used to maintain potency across batches) but the actual T4 and T3 content will be very similar in size to that in synthetic products. The other substances are generally called excipients.
Excipients are classed by function:
Classes of Excipients
• Adjuvants
• Antiadherents
• Binders
• Coatings
• Colours
• Disintegrants
• Flavours
• Glidants
• Lubricants
• Preservatives
• Sorbents
• Sweeteners
• Vehicles
Desiccated thyroid powder does not, on its own, allow creation of tablets. For one example, Armour Thyroid contains:
calcium stearate
dextrose
microcrystalline cellulose
sodium starch glycolate
opadry white
Other desiccated thyroid tablets have different excipients. But they are essential to enable production of viable tablets.
I do not have an Armour tablet to hand, but I suspect that even the lowest dose (quarter grain/15 milligrams) probably weighs at least 60 milligrams. This would be around 25% Thyroid USP and 75% excipients. And of the 15 milligrams of Thyroid USP, there will be only 9.5 micrograms of T4 and 2.25 micrograms of T3.
That works out at around 0.02% of the tablet being thyroid hormone.
(Yes, I know there is some variation in a real world pack of sugar and some might be fine powder. I m talking about the actual crystals we all recognise.)
However small a tablet anyone makes, whatever solutions anyone produces, it will be overwhelmingly composed of substances other than thyroid hormone.
A photo of sugar grains taken from Wiki
very little is free from some additives or fillers but last time I compared armour to thyroid s and ERFA thyroids had the most by a long shot, I seem to remember some on here reporting skin or nail issues only on thyroid s, pity because it is cheaper
The list of excipients might not be so very important in itself.
Just to make a point:
Imagine someone is sensitive to lactose. If they drink a glass of milk, they suffer.
They have a choice of two levothyroxine tablets which, unfortunately, both contain lactose - one with ten excipients, the other with just two.
The one with ten has just one milligram of lactose.
The one with just two has twenty milligrams of lactose.
They might be just about OK with the single milligram but not with twenty.
The fewer the excipients, then the more of each one (on average).
Thanks
• in reply tohelvella
Most people are aware of excipients which they’re sensitive to. If they’re not, they soon find out.
Wow, thanks for such an indepth answer ! They should pin this definitely.
A lot of that is readily available in my Vade Mecum.
And on the same blog, there are around fifty other posts/blogs/documents which might be of some interest.
helvella's Vade Mecum document is available here:
helvella - Vade Mecum for Thyroid
The term vade mecum means:
1. A referential book such as a handbook or manual.
2. A useful object, constantly carried on one’s person.
helvella.blogspot.com/p/hel...
I hated Latin at school.
Hi I don't know if thyroid users in your country have access to NP thyroid, but for those who are concerned about fillers, the only fillers I found listed in NP thyroid are: calcium stearate, dextrose monohydrate, & mineral oil. Went to synthetics for 10 mos. after RLC labs pulled their Nature-throid, started NP, almost a year ago & doing wellon the NP
Thyroid S weigh around 114 milligrams.
Nature-Throid weigh around 154 milligrams.
These are what I weighed this very afternoon!
Thanks
Gingersnap202, I have a bottle of Thyroid-S, and yes, the tablets are small. But they are still far, far bigger than the active hormone content. The manufacturers have always refused all requests by anyone, for information about the components of their pills. And even the active hormone content isn't stated on the packaging any more. It simply isn't possible to make uniformly sized pills that have the same hormone content in every one, without incuding excipients.
If the tablets work for you, then that's great, but please don't kid yourself that they are 'pure hormone' or 'nothing but thyroid'.
josephhoquet
Understood.
For those who havent seen them, they are about half the size of an Armour tablet. The ones I have received are a medium brown color. Thankfully, they do work for me.
Thanks
There are lots of aditives in Thyroid s I have the list. Have been on it for over seven years now it works slower than Armour because of the slower release coating so good for many. There are also colour additves too.
From the posts I have seen it looks like a good alternative.
Brightness14 'There are lots of aditives in Thyroid s I have the list.'
Whatever list you have is either long out of date or at least unofficial. The manufacturers consistently refuse to disclose the contents of their pills to anyone.
ga
Sorry I don't understand your comment. Did you hit reply by accident before you'd finished typing?
Yes sorry did just a thick old ex grammar school girl.
Brightness14, So you meant Gah! 😀
Best not to do slang expressions or text speak on here as many will not understand due to age, language etc.
I don't do text speak or slang what more can I say apart from sorry. If that's what you want to hear.
Sorry was not intentional lol
• in reply toBrightness14
Just keep smiling.
• in reply toRedApple
😤
Yes sorry new fone lol
• in reply toRedApple
So is the list cited by SeasideSusie best ignored? Alarmist? Inaccurate?
That list is said to have come direct from the manufacturer. People have to make their own mind up really.
• in reply toSeasideSusie
Yes. I understand that. Just confused about why it appeared to be being dismissed.
It's just that nobody really knows for sure.
Yorkshireman356• in reply to
Speaking as a newbie on here and getting some excellent advice, my advice would be to ask many questions, and do your homework.
• in reply toYorkshireman356
That’s sure a good idea.
Remember though that none of the advice on here comes from medically qualified people although there is a wealth of experience.
Lots of interesting information which should be used as a starting point for your own research.
My daughter and I have both taken Thyroid S for many years. It is important to start any NDT with a very small dose don't compare swapping from Levo. Half a tablet for three weeks and titrate slowly upwards. Many people get this wrong and think NDT doesn't work. Your body has never been given any T3 so starting on a "normal" dose can be a big shock.
As has been said Ferritin, Folate B12 and D3 also need to be optimal.
Cheers.
This is important information Yorkshireman356. And the norm. I just want to point out that I was the opposite, and of course probably part of a small percentage.
I did this method and after the second week? I could not take the awful side effects anymore, rolled the dice and went directly to what I thought would be full dose and felt better instantly.
I believe it was because I was on a high dose of Synthroid, although it is still in your system at that point (They think it takes quite a while to leave), and my body was begging for more hormones.
(Unfortunately I am off Thyroid S right now due to border issues)
Don't understand what are border issues ?
I am in Canada, we have stricter regulations on importing.
Sorry about that
Snap, was first having Armour then they changed it and it went up, tried Westhiroid and was happy on that till discontinued now on Thyroid S, and sounds like from same place.
I have sent you a private message with details.
Thanks
Thanks
For me, Thyroid-S has been as good as Armour and ERFA, which I had previously taken until their formulae had changed. The list of fillers doesn't concern me because I have to take something and this is the best I can currently find. Also, as helvella explains, the greater the number of fillers, the less each one affects you. I'm lactose intolerant and Armour wasn't so good from that point of view.
I chew the tablets, even though they have a coating on them for slow release, having read when Armour altered that that helped them to be absorbed. This method works well for me.
Ever since I've been taking it, I've seen comments about some batches not being as strong as others. There is a permissible leeway in hormone content, which I think is about 8% either way, but I'm not entirely sure about that. What we are now finding is that the exact percentages of hormones are being given when asked, and they do differ between batches. Until the price increased a few years ago, many of us bought Thyroid-S in packs of 75 or 100 at a time, which meant they only lasted a few weeks and then we'd start another new batch, so any difference wasn't as obvious as it has now become.
For this reason, I start a new bottle gradually. I take 3.25 grains a day and slowly substitute a quarter of a grain and increase each week or two weeks. This way there is no sudden change so any differences are smoothed over, and after a couple of months I know if I need to alter my dose for that particular batch. I've only ever needed to alter once and then by just a quarter of a grain.
When I first started NDT I had been taking 125 mcg T4 and 40 mcg T3 on prescription from a private doctor, who told me to switch by stopping the synthetics and taking half a grain for a couple of weeks, then increasing gradually. He told me not to suddenly switch to the equivalent amount.
Good luck if you decide to try it!
hi Framboise. I’ve been experimenting with Thyroid S for the last 9 months and am currently at 2 grains but my TSH is still 2 which means I’m underdosed. Am working my way up slowly as going up too fast gives me ringing in my ears and I can’t sleep. Am curious if you take yours once a day or dose it throughout the day? Also I’ve read somewhere that after meals works better as it doesn’t drop the sugar levels as much , a problem I had when taking it on an empty stomach … just trying to get your inputs …
many thanks to all for the advice given. I'll keep this post to show my endo on the 4th. July. I'd also hope everyone finds their levels and lives a normal life as possible. I'll update my on-going Thyroid page after the 4th. Thanks All.
All the best
It was not anything I thought about, either - in light of the postings, thought I'd present another option
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