Has anyone tried these or something similar?
I'm intrigued by the DAO content which I didn't know you could get from kidneys, I've previously used the ones made from beans.... I've enquired about the Iodine content?
Wild Roaming Lamb Kidney Capsules
Grass Fed & Wild: Wild Roaming Lamb Organs (Pure Kidney)
Freeze Dried: DAO (Great for Histamine Intolerance) & Vit B12
Hi Eeyore100,
Sorry I can't comment on the kidney supplement as I've never taken it.
But do you ever have Epsom salt baths? It's something I've read about before as I have a sensitivity to sulphites and have seen it mentioned on more than a few occasions. It's also supposed to help if you have an intolerance to histamine. I usually bookmark interesting articles so if I can find a reference I will post a link.
Also molybdenum is said to help your body process histamine, sulphite and other substances. It is a mineral and is available in supplement form. I've not tried it but just practice avoidance of foods that cause me issues.
I read labels and sulphites are listed but I also mostly avoid convenience foods anyway. Rapeseed oil is another that has high sulphite levels. Chips by the seaside are a rare 'treat' as I'd end up wheezing and with a tight chest.
Best wishes.
I didn't know that about epsom salts! I know they are helpful in magnesium uptake and for detoxing.... I do regularly add it to my bath, the kids laugh as I buy it in 20 kilo sacks but it's so much cheaper that way.
I too generally avoid most things, nightshades also make me sick, long gone is the idea of chips by the sea 😕, I just wondered if this would make avocados safe and beans would be nutritionally good to add back in...
Eeyore100,
The DAO enzyme is produced in the kidney and the gut. Allergies are common in hypo due to multiple factors but gut issues are a big one because of leaky gut & bacterial overgrowth. Another is our increased response due to a heightened immune system.
I haven't taken these pills but managed my own histamine intolerance through previously healing my gut and continued avoidance of what I know to substantially increase my histamine levels, such as white wine which not only contains histamine itself (being fermented) but triggers own histamine release, and blocks DAO production so we receive a triple whammy. I found gin is fine 😁
Many of the foods deemed as low in histamine are a natural part of my diet anyway …. quinoa & rice, veg (but not avocados, tomatoes, aubergine which I include but limit), fresh meat & fish, etc, basically a normal healthy diet. Chinese takeaways are a rare treat as always set me off sneezing during the night.
(runs to shop to try gin)
I can't tolerate wine white or red. Anything fermented. I'm officially boring
Gin really?! 🤣 It used to make my eyeballs feel like they were splintered ☹️
This was the first time I'd seen a kidney product flag up its DAO content (though I don't know how much?)
My gut is now in a much better state having ditched all the reactive foods and drinks and adding the T3 made a huge difference... I do now eat a little hanger steak but wondered if I could take something like these to get all the good offal bits then I'd probably skip meat, wondered if these would also give a little more histamine flare protection?...good organic meat is becoming a real luxury item
Eeyore100,
Have you read Dirty Genes by Ben Lynch? He was one of the first to bring histamine intolerance into the spotlight and has the Seeking Health range of supplements. Also one of the first to get on the supplement band wagon but he does offer genuine clean products aimed to compliment/support our exact genetic makeup. He also offers lots of histamine intolerance advice and supports including those containing porcine kidney extract.
Also have you tried good old fashioned Vit C which not only encourages DAO production but is an immune modulator so calms excess histamine release. I take between 2-3g a day but not everyone can manage this due to stomach upsets.
Nope he's a new one to me.... bit more brain fodder, thanks Radd.
Dirty Genes: A Breakthrough Program to Treat the Root Cause
Genes can be “born dirty” or merely “act dirty” in response to your environment, diet, or lifestyle—causing lifelong, life-threatening, and chronic health ...
I do take Vit C (not sure how much but I only pee in bright yellow these days 😆) that is interesting, I have been a lot better since starting T3 but I don't want to get remiss about it and get caught out
Is that the guy who suggests doing a gene test then directs you to a website to interpret it?I lost focus at that point as I couldn't understand the website he directed me to. I want easy. My brain is mush half the time.
But I need to go back and read what he is saying.
I feel like, every time I start getting somewhere healthwise, a new ball is thrown into the mix.
I'm currently trying to investigate the role of iodine in histamine regulation. I have angioedema and a flushy face that isn't stopping, so as it is, I look half drunk without even being able to drink.
And that's just really unfair! ((Needs gin now))
Alanna012,
I assume you refer to the Strategene Report but I haven’t used it as have always worked with a practitioner to interpet my data for me.
Ben Lynch states there’s about 1.4million SNPs in the human body that alter gene expression but not always negatively, and these companies that identify which supplements you should be taking from just one or two SNP’s have most likely got it wrong because life style, environmental factors and illness have to be considered to assess what is slowing or increasing genetic expression, ie epigenetic control.
Think of a chemical that gives you a headache and might risks altering enzymes that effect dopamine levels, or toxic burden that you can not break down, ie histamine. He also discusses how one cycle may effect another - the folate pathway, methionine (methylation), transsulfuration (glutathione, etc) , biopterin (neurotransmitters), and histamine (allergies) and sometimes altering expression further up the line will help another seemingly totally unconnected symptom.
For instance a methylation deficiency may not need a methyl-version of Vit B12/folate but another methyl donor type that allows these to then be metabolised normally. Sometimes taking methyl versions can even make someone over methylate and do more harm than good.
You are right in that inadequate thyroid hormones can cause mast cells to increase and release excess histamine as iodine decreases histamine release. Also amylase, manganese and bioflavenoids of which I found quercetin and Vit C very useful. I wouldn't recommend supplementing iodine but trying to optimise thyroid hormones and get them working effectively, ie reducing symptoms.
Honestly Radd you're amazing, you manage to deliver a ton of info in a small post. I admit to feeling a bit overwhelmed with it.I'm in a dilemma with thyroid hormone supplementation. It seems real lasting wellness (which for me means energy, energy to think, move and be productive) isn't achievable for me on any meds. The closest I came to it was taking nature thyroid. I started a combo of bi-tiron and Np thyroid and I started to again get close to something almost like wellness, ie, decent energy where you don't have to think about moving. You just do it.
It was while I was trying this that I suddenly had a big episode of angioedema. Immediately stopped everything. But nothing changed. I was also adding in a probiotic supplement attempting the cambridge protocol for long covid. Stopped that completely stopped everything except the NP but still having constant swelling, hives angioedema and stuck on highest dose fexofenadine.
Hence my iodine research.
And this isn't scientific but in terms of genetic expression and environment it occurred to me that perhaps I ought to be concentrating on my family roots for answers.
They come from the tropics, and my family lived for generations in constant sunny, warm rural farming countryside, eating fresh food, drinking water from a tank, toileting in an outhouse and breathing in loose, red, wind swept dust that gets in the house and covers the furniture. Germs everywhere. You hardly notice the difference in seasons until hurricane season arrives. My mother was brought here as a teen. In that region a robust immune system has a lot to regulate it. My mother talks about having to drink raw castor oil and bitter herb infusions brewed by my great grandmother to deworm the stomach every few months.
Here not. It occurs to me that I haven't earned the right genetically to live here, (although ancestry DNA says I have a decent about of english, and northern european genes but they seem to be incredibly unhelpful lol) to absorb efficiently the weaker sunlight in winter, to manage the cold, to live off less fresh fruit and veg, live in a cleaner environment. My children's children's children might be more genetically adapted to this environment. I also read that how much iodine we can individually tolerate may be dependent on our ancestral roots, so e.g. if your family lived/live by the sea? You may be able to tolerate higher amounts of iodine. Family were farmers? Less. City dwellers? Even less.
Anyway I think my family would have likely eaten more iodine than I get now, but I confess when I try to add even a bit, my throat is on fire and I get pain in my thyroid. So maybe not, either way simply taking thyroid meds and supplements, methylated b complex etc doesn't seem to be the entire answer. Maybe it's MCAS, but it doesn't matter. What matters is the cause. I'm stumped and having to reconstruct everything from the ground up again.
Alanna012,
When we feel long term ill there is a real risk of overthinking. Especially when we are brain foggy and find everything difficult to comprehend. We all have polymorphisms and the trick is to modulate them with life style, foods and possibly supplements to encourage best performance.
But we don’t need in-depth knowledge but just to practice mindfulness over what is making symptoms worse. Once we’ve addressed gut issues and iron/nutrient deficiencies and thyroid hormones are a decent level, try identifying what it is that’s disrupting the way your genes behave, ie what is making your eyes itchy or stomach queasy or gives you a runny nose, hives or headaches or any other unwanted symptoms.
Regarding histamine measures I cut out what I knew for certain raised excessive levels, namely white wine and cheese. This was initially immensely difficult as I love both but having made the commitment the improvements showed quickly, giving me inspiration to look further.
Other things that created a less severe reaction I reduced (aubergine, nuts,) and adopted a low histamine diet for about six weeks so no processed meats, bananas, beans, chocolate, etc. Ongoing I am mindful of foods that encourage histamine release such as kiwi and strawberries, and foods that compete with DAO such as citrus fruits and mushrooms.
Be careful with probiotics because some actually increase histamine levels. If you find improvements are slow it may be that you need to supplements one of the many that tackle excess histamine from every angle. I had my DAO enzymic activity measured that evidenced improvements and also found writing a plan and noting improvements helped me to assess what was going on and remain committed.
I would never suggest iodine supplementation but if you are going to do it ensure you have adequate selenium, or supplement alongside. Otherwise you risk the antagonistic effects of iodine that Datis Kharrizian and Chris Kressler always claimed could provoke a Hashi attack, hence as you stated ‘my throat is on fire and I get pain in my thyroid’.
Thanks for taking the time to write such a lengthy reply! Yes I'm aware of the need to supplement with selenium, particularly when taking iodine - about the only consensus I could find on the issue of iodine supplementation. I don't skimp on that due to eye issues anyway, I take Viridian brand but need a cheaper brand as it's expensive for only 30 tablets but I feel it works!
You're right I need to stop overthinking. No one really understands what being chronically ill does to you. And overtalking. I've told everyone in my family, do not ask me how I am anymore. But I'm also simultaneously exhausted from having to think and talk!
I agree on the probiotics, I knew it was a risk. I think that started off this latest spike. But it's hard to address gut dysbiosis without them. Not taken any for months. I'm wondering if it's meant to just get worse before it gets better though.
I seem to react to anything long term stored juices, seasonings,
Mushrooms - yes as well as other yeasts (and I was brewers yeasts a few months ago too)
Things that are boiled or cooked too long
Exertion
Skin Pressure, lying down triggers it.
Things that are aged and fermented, alcohol.
I suspect iron was aggravating so stopped supplementing.
Most tinned foods
Aged meats .. anything interesting sigh.
Previously I have done exclusion diets, AIP, fodmap etc - I haven't the will or the energy to do either for now especially in winter. Neither addressed the histamine issue (Which I did not know was the cause but helped) The AIP in particular. I was concentrating on allergies per se, not knowing anything at the time about dao or HIT.
Can I ask what vit C you use, and also where or how did you get your dao levels tested?
And thanks for taking the time to respond, I appreciate it.
Alanna012,
I use any buffered Vit C powder. The more concentrated are more costly but last longer and at present I’m using a Biotics Research with bioflavonoids. I had Diamine Oxidase Activity tested by a practitioner but now a days there are many companies offering home kits. It’s not expensive but even so I’m not sure it’s worth doing because symptoms speak for themselves.
My take on the probiotics is there appears limited and conflicting knowledge on which probiotics are most useful with increased gut histamine release. Most will suppress pathogenic bacteria, positively interact with immune cells and modulate inflammation so improving epithelium barrier function and dysmotility, etc but some may encourage further release of histamine. These probiotics also have positive or negative influence on the DAO enzyme activity so it becomes further complicated.
I was told to take Saccharomyces Boulardi which is a non-pathogenic yeast, and this has now remained my go-to. It’s interactions are complex working on many levels but all research shows it significantly decreases levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines (chemical messengers) and increase anti-inflammatory interleukins (WBC’s), and excess histamine release is an inflammatory response.
I was looking into Vit C, any pointers? I see there is a time release one, is that beneficial do you think... smaller doses throughout the day or one big whammy?
I did make a big batch of Apple, Rosehip and Elderberry Syrup ( Kids label as A.R.S.E! sometimes runny .... the syrup that is) last week before my funny turn, so I need to get on and take a shot of that every day... I shall have to work out the strength
Eeyore100,
Vit C helps aid iron absorption so perhaps a timed release version would be more beneficial to yourself (and others wishing to raise iron levels).
For myself I have to take it on an empty stomach to avoid improved iron absorption as have haemochromatosis. I take the buffered because I take quite a large dose at once.
Buffered seems to be slow release also and a cleaner, gentler form.
Thanks... I'd never heard of it 🤷♀️
Buffered just means it is mixed with calcium, magnesium, etc to protect the stomach lining from the acidity of ascorbic acid.
Is this one mixing both then? It suggests time release?
smile.amazon.co.uk/Nothingb...
Eeyore100,
Yes, and they state .. ..
"✅ 𝟐𝐗 𝐌𝐎𝐑𝐄 𝐓𝐎𝐋𝐄𝐑𝐀𝐁𝐋𝐄 𝐖𝐈𝐓𝐇 𝐂𝐀𝐋𝐂𝐈𝐔𝐌 𝐋-𝐀𝐒𝐂𝐎𝐑𝐁𝐀𝐓𝐄: Nothing But gut friendly. Many supplements are made with ascorbic acid, which causes gastrointestinal issues due to its acidic pH. We buffer with calcium. This acid-alkaline buffering action creates a neutral pH, INCREASING TOLERABILITY BY 35%."
With regard to the slow release they refer to ...
"✅ 𝟑𝐗 𝐌𝐎𝐑𝐄 𝐀𝐁𝐒𝐎𝐑𝐏𝐓𝐈𝐎𝐍 𝐖𝐈𝐓𝐇 𝐓𝐈𝐌𝐄𝐂𝐀𝐏 𝐓𝐄𝐂𝐇𝐍𝐎𝐋𝐎𝐆𝐘: Nothing But consistent delivery. Regular capsules release all at once – as the body can’t store vitamin C, their absorption rate is <25%. Our capsules release nutrients over 7 hours, MIMICKING THE BODY’S DIGESTION PERIOD, for 75%+ intracellular uptake & stable blood serum levels".
I assume that Timecap technology is referring to an extended-release capsule, whereas I take Vit C in power form.
hello I know this is an old post but do you mean that bacterial over growth is common when hypothyroid ?
I feel like I’m going all round the houses treating alot if symptoms which also can be hypo leaky gut, histamine, allergies to foods if I go off very strict diet is nhave very strong hypo symptoms tiered fatigue, depression , big belly , constipation feezinv cold etc
But as I get older it’s hard to keep up with just a restricted diet to help me ..
Maybe I just need thyroid hormones xx
Absolutely,
Here's an interesting link by Chris Kessler explaining the Gut-Thyroid Connection ... chriskresser.com/the-thyroi....
And Isabella Wentz's take on Fundamental Gut health Protocol ... thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...
thank you so much people think I’m
Mad when try explain do you know thyroid doctors that would help me ? I can’t just eat normal abc be that unwell thyroid symptoms I’m single mum with my boy and no support I need to stay awake … xx
Maybe I need private doctor .. x
Mandlou
I’m sorry to read in your past posts that you have felt ill for many years.
Have you ever had an official diagnosis of hypothyroidism?
Are you still taking Armour and if so how many grains?
I noted you also had many nutrient deficiencies. Have these been addressed?
Have you any recent thyroid hormone tests that include levels TSH, FT4 & FT3? If not you could ask your health practitioner, or when doctors aren’t cooperative members use private tests …. thyroiduk.org/testing/priva...
If you have never had thyroid antibodies tested, including TPOAb & TGAb is useful.
Starting your own new post with your test results will allow more members to see it and invite more comments.
Thank you yes it’s been 18 years juggling symptoms with diets and vitamins and b12 .. but I still have the same issues which now I think are worse approaching menopause it’s ruined my life 
Mandlou,
Many members including myself have experienced or are experiencing years of illness as thyroid hormone issues are so poorly understood. Hence the popularity of the forum. As suggested above, getting thyroid hormone levels tested and posting the results is the first step 🤗
Hey - never taken the kidney but I've taken their liver and heart supplement or hirsch one everyday for past year which is high in copper, which as I'm sure you know is a cofactor of DAO. Although my histamine is ok and i don't have histamine intolerance per se, my DAO came up as low in tests I had done in Jan. I also take pure encapsulations copper tablets which I think are good. these 2 things combined have adressed the deficiency.
T3. in capsule form rather than hard tablets
HASHI'S, HISTAMINE SENSITIVITY, THYROID
