Bad news for all of us, fluoridation of UK tap water is going ahead

[Carys21]

Our wonderful Government has decided there are not enough people in the UK with hypothyroidism theguardian.com/society/202...

[Hibs1]

Not the UK as not in Scotland.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Hibs1]

The article does not say not Scotland:

Fluoride is expected to be added to drinking water across the country after Britain’s chief medical officers concluded that the mineral would cut tooth decay.

Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer for England, and his counterparts in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland cited estimates by Public Health England that adding more fluoride to water supplies would reduce cavities by 17% among the richest children and 28% among the poorest.

The obvious inference is that the CMOs intend to push for it across the whole UK.

[Hibs1 in reply to helvella]

Last time it was mentioned Nicola was against it and I'm sure the Greens wont let it go through

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Hibs1]

That might well be the case - and could, in various ways, be the same in Wales and Northern Ireland. Indeed, even in England there could be significant backlash though without its own assembly/parliament.

Responsibility for fluoridation was put onto English councils but, since then, I am not aware of a single additional area now receiving fluoridated water. Which might be at least partly because of the political toxicity perceived by councillors.

But this issue is that the the current intent appears to be to make it universal.

[Hibs1 in reply to helvella]

We shall see. I'm a bottled water user myself though

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Hibs1]

Whereas I avoid bottled water due to the micro-plastics content and the environmental impact of the bottles!

(Even if in glass bottles, there are usually plastic seals.)

[nightingale-56 in reply to Hibs1]

Without looking it up, I wrote to Matt Hancock about a year ago on this subject, as we had been through the same thing many years ago. Looks like I should send the same letter, with links as to why it is not a good idea, to Sajid Javid! I did not receive a reply. This time I will send copies to Chris Whitty and local Council.

Anglia Water do not, as yet, add flouride, but I think I will also send a copy to them.

[Carys21 in reply to nightingale-56]

Don't forget to include Whitty, he's driving it as well

[nightingale-56 in reply to Carys21]

Just edited my reply.

[penny in reply to nightingale-56]

Considering the dangerous decisions being taken by Whitty, et al, with regard to medications at the moment I don’t hold out much hope.

[nightingale-56 in reply to penny]

Me neither, but we can't just sit still, can we!

[shaws Administrator in reply to helvella]

Surely it is a person's pesonal decision if he/she wants to take flouride in their water. Our body is 60% water.

usgs.gov/special-topic/wate...

Not all parents would want to add flouride to water, especially for very young children. Or even for the older generation who most likely take medications to keep them well. Would/could it disturb the other prescribed medications that people take?

Let them bottle flouride water and keep our tap water free from 'additions'.

It's like something out of a horror movie where we might all end up with severe ill-health - never mind adding substances that the majority of people I don't think would want.

I doubt anyone who has decided this should go ahead - has not thought this through. (they should drink more fresh water).

Toothpastes contain flouride - why put it in our water which is then used to add to babies food/drinks etc.

Older peoplecan take multiple medications - to be taken with flouridated water!

It just doesn't make sense. We all want pure, unadulterated, water to cook our food, to drink, to wash, to bathe.

We should have a choice not be dictated to of how we should eat or drink.

Will we all become zombies!.

[Hibs1 in reply to shaws]

Agree wholeheartedly

[penny in reply to Hibs1]

Isn’t this all of a piece? We are in to mass medication territory; coercion for an experimental vaccine, whether needed or not (previous infection), folic acid in flour and baked goods and now fluoride in drinking water. Next it will be the introduction on ‘intelligent’ money as mooted by the Bank of England, among others, so that OUR money can only be spent on things approved by the government. (The Telegraph, June 2021). It will be digital ID cards before long and a CCP Social Credit system. It’s a slippery slope.

[bagpuss61]

That's disgusting! If people want to add fluoride to their tooth health care that's their choice, but putting it in the water does not give people the freedom of right to choose.

[jimh111]

It's good news. I came from Birmingham and without flouridation I would have no teeth now. I know we should take care of our teeth but growing up in a slum neighbourhood there was no such thing. An additional problem is that many less well off people can't afford private dentistry and NHS dentists' lists are full.

There's lots of speculation about flouride and thyroid but I haven't seen any good studies that show it has an effect. If flouride reduces thyroidal secretion or thyroid hormone action it will show up as an elevated TSH (TSH is useful in this respect). I would be more concerned about adding folate to white bread (might mask B12 deficiency) and the failure to address vitamin D deficiency which has existed since school milk was snatched.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to jimh111]

Which is what this review paper says happens! (TSH up, and FT4/FT3 down).

Chemosphere. 2020 Dec;260:127565.

doi: 10.1016/j.chemosphere.2020.127565. Epub 2020 Jul 9.

Effect of fluoride on endocrine tissues and their secretory functions -- review

Marta Skórka-Majewicz 1 , Marta Goschorska 2 , Wojciech Żwierełło 1 , Irena Baranowska-Bosiacka 2 , Daniel Styburski 1 , Patrycja Kapczuk 2 , Izabela Gutowska 3

Affiliations

PMID: 32758781 DOI: 10.1016/j.chemosphere.2020.127565

Abstract

The effects of fluoride on endocrine tissues has not been sufficiently explored to date. The current body of knowledge suggest significant effects of that mineral on reducing sex hormone levels, which may consequently impair fertility and disrupt puberty. The majority of studies confirm that sodium fluoride increases TSH levels and decreases the concentrations of T3 and T4 produced by the thyroid. Moreover, a correlation was observed between NaF and increased secretion of PTH by the parathyroid glands, without a significant impact on body calcium levels. Probably, fluoride may exert adverse effects on insulin levels, impairing pancreatic function and resulting in abnormal glucose tolerance. Observations also include decreased levels of cortisol secreted by the adrenal glands. In light of the few existing studies, the mechanism of fluoride toxicity on the endocrine system has been described.

Keywords: Endocrine tissue; Fluoride; Hormones

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/327...

[RedApple Administrator in reply to jimh111]

jimh111 'If flouride reduces thyroidal secretion or thyroid hormone action it will show up as an elevated TSH'

Given that the diagnosis and treatment of hypothyroidism is still delayed until TSH is well out of range, more and more people will be condemned to live with undiagnosed hypothyridism, which in itself is detrimental to teeth and gum health.

[jimh111 in reply to RedApple]

I think the issue of waiting until TSH is elevated (and patients trying to get the TSH diagnostic level down) is a red herring. My view is that in patients who have hypothyroidism with a non-elevated or mildly elevated TSH the problem is not due to insufficient hormone from the thyroid. I feel that the sooner we can get away from that concept the better. It's difficult to judge but my best guess is that there is around the same number of cases of hypothyroidism due to an insufficient TSH as due to primary hypothyroidism and hypothyrodism due to a low TSH (for given fT3, fT4) is much more difficult to treat.

Coming back to flourine, I've only glanced at studies but it seems to play a role when there is iodine deficiency so this needs to be addressed, whether or not water is flouridated.

Halogens have the potential to disrupt thyroid hormone activity. It seems that physicians are trying to take the easy option and pick on flourine because it is a halogen like iodine. I believe other halogens such as bromine and chlorine have much more effect - because they are incorporated into products that have similar structure to thyroid hormone. For example, polybrominated diphenyl ethers (PBDEs) were used as flame retardants and will be around for decades. PBDEs have the same structure as T3 and are known to disrupt thyroid hormone transport and T3 binding to receptors (but not in the pitutary so there is peripheral hypothyroidism with normal blood test results.

In short, I accept flourine may reduce thyroidal secretion a little in iodine deficient people but I feel the benefits outweigh the disbenefits. I also feel we should refocus our attention on endocrine disrupting chemicals as they can have a much greater impact that isn't reflected in a raised TSH.

[Lizzo30]

Bad news for anyone who is iodine deficient - albeit most won't know they are esp vegans - flouride in water will make them more prone to hypothyroidism

Iodine and flouride repel each other so I will continue with my tiny pinch of organic sea kelp on my toast every morning so flouride doesnt dominate my system also I will be looking into filters

Children lose their milk teeth amyway flouride toothpaste is a better option surely

[Carys21 in reply to Lizzo30]

I have a zero filter that removes fluoride, but I am also looking at distillers too, I've seen them around £60 upwards on Amazon and Ebay which seems quite reasonable for 4 litres of pure water. I take lugols iodine daily but I still don't want to drink water with fluoride in. I have read they add 0.5 - 1mg of fluoride per litre which sounds a horrendous amount considering the average person is lucky to get 60mcg a day of iodine from diet in the UK.

[Lizzo30 in reply to Carys21]

I read that lugols iodine can help fight against covid I am thinking of gargoling with some I have long covid

kcl.ac.uk/news/could-a-chea...

Also iodine prevents breast cancer flouride in water may increase cases

Many countries have banned adding flouride to water Netherlands for example

[Carys21 in reply to Lizzo30]

If you are thinking of using lugols iodine can I suggest you read up on the iodine protocol first as you would need to take the proper cofactors with it to avoid detox symptoms which can be unpleasant. steppingstonesliving.com/th...

[penny in reply to Lizzo30]

I have a vague memory that the FLCCC talk of using iodine as a nasal cleanser/irrigation in their protocol(s). I’m not sure if it is in their long covid one.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Carys21]

Remember to factor in the cost of running a distiller. A quick search found this (which seems feasible):

Typically, a home water distiller uses around 3 kWh (kilowatt-hours) of electricity per gallon of water. Multiply your electricity cost per kWh by three, and you'll calculate the cost of producing a gallon (about 4.5 litres) of distilled water in your home.

A fairly typical smaller household in the UK might use 3,000 kWh per year - a bit over 8 a day (excluding space heating). Another quick search finds that we might consume 2.5 litres of water each per day. The five litres a day a couple might consume could increase electricity usage by nearly 50%.

I hope the whole population doesn't start using them!

[Carys21 in reply to helvella]

Good information, I've got to sit down and work it out compared to what I am paying for replacement filters. I pay roughly £15 for a zero filter if I buy 4 at a time and I get about 150 litres per filter as I live in a soft water area so less solids to remove. On the H2o labs site, h2olabs.co.uk/ they calculate this for one of their countertop distillers "Since you are making your own pure water, you don"t pay for bottles, delivery, advertising, store mark ups, etc. Your cost is only for electricity and whatever your municipality charges you for water which is very minimal. These costs are estimated to be less than 10 Pence per Litre. (580 watts X 1.25 hours = 725 watts at 12.5 pence kilowatt rate, (example utility rate per 1,000 watts) = 9.06 pence.)" My electricity is about 20p a unit. I think the cost would be about the same.

[bagpuss61]

Effects of Fluoride on the Thyroid

thyromate.com/blog/effects-...

[RedApple Administrator]

Skimming through the comments on this thread, there's a strong suggestion that fluoridation of water encourages people to buy more (plastic) bottled water and to use (energy consuming) filtration units. Hmm, that's really 'good for the planet' isn't it! 😡Perhaps someone needs to start a petition against fluoridation with specific emphasis on these issues? 🤔

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to RedApple]

Couldn't agree more.

The whole bottled water industry is problematical.

There are issues such as plastic particles to sometimes questionable quality of the water which affect us as individual consumers.

There are issues such as plastic usage, plant operation, transport, waste disposal, which impose a considerable burden on all of us. (Remember transport likely includes using the car more as carrying water is something most of us don't want to do.)

The filtering industry has its problems too. Again plastic content of the filters and the filtered water. And disposal. Also, not replacing filters at the appropriate intervals can result in an increase in substances as they can be released from the filter back into the water.

And, as already pointed out, the energy consumption of distillation units is considerable, especially if used diligently.

Should I stop drinking bottled water?

Do you get a healthier, safer and more refreshing drink when you buy it off the shelf? The answer is ‘no’, and doing so hurts the environment and your wallet

theguardian.com/lifeandstyl...

A USA article which also refers to the UK:

Taste, Cost & Safety: 3 Reasons NOT to Buy Bottled Water

unsustainablemagazine.com/3...

In case this comes across as very negative, I am unhappy about fluoridation plans from the health perspective.

And if you do not like water directly from the tap, putting it in a jug in the refrigerator for a while can substantially reduce the chlorine level. Yes, of course that also uses energy.

[tattybogle in reply to helvella]

yesterday i walked along the prom to Aldi. a brisk wind from the north west was making perfect waves for the kite surfers to jump off .... it was also washing all the flotsam into the shore .

I went down the steps to the sand , and in the space of 30 ft i picked up 26 plastic bottles.

Makes no difference if you're the one buying the water in the bottles.

or the one putting the bottles in the water.

It's a really bad idea.

plastic in sea = plastic in fish = plastic in humans.... which concerns me much more right now than flouride does.

[penny]

This issue has been raised on a post on Dr Kendrick’s site; there was a link to this:

off-guardian.org/2021/09/26...

[Carys21 in reply to penny]

Yep, sums it up doesn't it, Or, in other words, it’s the perfect thing to start pumping into the water when you’ve just tried to launch a global coup, and not enough people are falling for it.

[Hidden]

I work at a state company, which delivers water to households. I drink bottled water. I would not touch tap water even if you paid me. Yes, bottled water has microplastics, but so does tap water, however tap water also has hormones, pharmaceuticals, heavy metals etc. I won't even mention water pipes including asbestos. Also my GP advised me not to drink tap water years ago when he found out I have Hashimotos, because of fluoride. He also recommended a fluoride-free toothpaste. My teeth are good as long as I'm properly treated with Armour. Most countries in EU don't have added fluoride to water supply, of course water naturally has some fluoride. But somehow UK and Ireland still believe that flushing fluoride through your stomach does something good to your teeth.