laser therapy for Hashimoto's

[007999]

Does anybody know of a clinic in the UK that uses laser to help with Hashimoto's?.

Research showed that the therapy lower the antibodies.

[shaws Administrator]

I don't know the answer to laser therapy but I do know going gluten-free can help reduce them. Members who have hashi's will respond.

[radd]

007999,

No, I don't know where to get it and there is controversy over whether thyroid gland cells can regenerate after the trigger has been removed ....

But anything that maybe starts regeneration and decreases TPOAb has to be worth a read ....

For other members ....

.

Natural Endocrines Solutions

naturalendocrinesolutions.c...

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Low Level Laser Treatment In Hashimotos.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/227...

[samaja]

LLLT is quite widely used in physiotheraphy and even beauty industry or you apparently could even buy a small hand held laser appliance to use at home. I am wondering whether anybody had any experience with these or had persuaded their physio to have a go at the thyroid?

[ThyroidLadyLondon]

I’m currently in Russia where apparently treatment of thyroid with LLLT is commonplace. I am going to undergo the treatment at a centre in Ryazan once I get a local Endoctrinologist to refer me for the laser therapy. Happy to report back.

For background, I have been diagnosed with Hashimotos a year ago and take 75/100mg of levo per day.

At the consultation today it was advised to tackle my issues in two ways 1) intravenous light irradiation of the blood and 2) LLLT therapy on the thyroid itself following the endo referral. The fees for the treatment are incredible. Apx GBP 3.50 for the blood irradiation and GBP 6.25 for thyroid laser treatment. Not thousand or hundreds, ten pounds all in....

The equipment is Russian made. The idea is too. A russian scientist received a nobel prize for it.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to ThyroidLadyLondon]

One of the papers I have quoted most often here is Russian but, sadly, we don't see anything like the number of papers would would expect from such a large country with sophisticated medicine.

If you are able to post any link about the treatments you are having, they would be very welcome.

[ThyroidLadyLondon in reply to helvella]

hi helvella

What is the article that you refer to, could you share per chance?

I have read the English language studies on rabbits and rats, and the one from Brazil on humans. I will do some digging on the russian search engines for laser studies.

Here’s one regardingbthe impact on LLLT on women with thyroid issues and associated menstrual cycle abnormalities. The laser therapy was found to be effective. It’s in Russian, but google translate will do a good job on the general gist of the paper =)

vrach-aspirant.ru/articles/...

I am planning to go this clinic in Ryazan:

lasercenter-62.ru it isn’t terribly glamorous and seems to be affiliated to the national laser therapy institute. It may be that it is somehow subsidised by the state since the treatment is so cheap.

On the Ryazan city medical portal I have read an article by Dr Astarkhov, who has been heading up the Endoctrinology unit of the main hospital for 40 years. He talks about laser therapy being proven and widely used as therapy in thyroid patients. His articles appear here:

medrzn.ru/doctors/398/

I’m going to try to make an appointment at the private practice where he sees patients and see what he says. Not one doctor in the U.K. has been able to tell me whether there are any ways to stimulate the thyroid function to at least partially regenerate. And here it is, apparently routinely used in autoimmune thyroditis. I’m willing to approach this scientifically, doing all the bloods before hand and with an open mind.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to ThyroidLadyLondon]

The paper I have quoted so often has noting to do with laser!

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/166...

Are there, by any chance, any English language versions of your links? Am happy to try an online translator but they are far from perfect.

[ThyroidLadyLondon in reply to helvella]

There isn’t I’m afraid. I’m always highly sceptical when reading things online in Russian about ‘miracle cures’, but this seems to check out. I’m not 100 sure about where to find medical papers apart from just googling it and seeing what comes up.

It’s unlinely that the russian papers will be available in English unless someone has gone through the trouble (and cost) of translating them.

When I visited the laser medical centre my impression was that the people working there are highly competent. The gentleman that administered the intravenous blood irradiation (which you can get for general profilactjc purposes and therefore no doctor referral needed), had a stack of scientific magazines and books in his office which are published in hard copy. I get the sense that there is a community of scientists and practitioners that are deeply involved but possibly quite siloed in their work. Don’t forget that whilst it was the Russians who invented the laser, this was done during soviet days, so marketing and commercialisation were nowhere in the vernacular. This, to me, helps to explain the low level of popular knowledge, asvertising and commercial promotion of the treatment in hospitals in Russia and beyond, not to mention its cost (practically free!) It’s not because it doesn’t work, it’s just that people working with this stuff don’t know how to do ‘business’. They only know how to do ‘science’.

[ThyroidLadyLondon in reply to helvella]

Had another dig around russian internet and this paper came up. It’s a doctoral dissertation paper that looked specifically at the use of low level lasers to stimulate productivity of the thyroid. It makes specific recommendations at the end about the laser intensity and the number of sessions (10) that should be administered to patients. It is from 1997 and again from the Ryazan Medical institute. It shows that T3 and T4 levels increased accross the board after laser therapy was used. In Russian, sorry.. I’m going to leave it here in case if is of use to anyone.

medical-diss.com/docreader/...

[ThyroidLadyLondon in reply to helvella]

Hi, was wondering if you could advise on what to do to test overmedication on levothyroxine. I have been having kind of fits almost every day for about five days. The first was on Friday and has happened every day since then. I’m having trembling, heart palpitations, feel like I can’t get enough air, diarrhoea, and am extremely agitated and emotionally erratic. I actually thought this might be because I was under medicated and upped my dose on Friday from 75 to 100.

It has only dawned on me that it might be because the laser treatment (done about 3 weeks for 10 days) might have worked!

If it did, then I may be over medicated, right?

How do I test this?

I have gone down to 50mg today from being on 100 for the last five days.

My TSH and T3/T4 we’re tested this morning and we’re all ‘in range’. TSH - 2.21, T3 - 3.9, T4 - 15.42.

The symptoms are new, and seem to coincide with over medication?

How can I test this to be sure?

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to ThyroidLadyLondon]

The results that you have posted above are difficult to interpret because you have not included the reference ranges. And can you confirm whether that T3 test was Total T3 or Free T3?

Some of what you have said does sound possibly over-medication but as I do not have personal experience, I really recommend that you post a brand new post (with a brief background) to get the opinions of others who have been unfortunate enough to have have gone through that.

[Hashisashi in reply to ThyroidLadyLondon]

Hi Zmironova, to me these symptoms sound like signs of over-medication on levothyroxin. I've been over medicated on levothyroxine a long time ago and had most of the same symptoms. I don't think you can test this specifically, but from my own experience I know that if you stay on that lower dose for about two months you can retest the TSH, (F)T4 and (F)T3.

But maybe in your case the symptoms of over-medication stay longer or come back sooner because of the effect of the laser treatment.

I was wondering how you are doing now and if you perhaps could tell us a little bit more about this laser treatment? I'm from Holland and I was wondering if this therapy is also accessible for foreigners ? And do you know if the endocrinologist speaks English or not?

[ThyroidLadyLondon in reply to Hashisashi]

Hi all. Hashisashi thanks for sharing your experience.

Well it’s been an interesting couple of weeks since the laser treatment ended. Per my message above, I started having these ‘fits’ about five days after the treatment ended and they’re were quite bad for about a week. Then they got a bit better as I lowered my dose of levo. I have been testing my TSH T3/T4 very regularly and have also done a full blood test, which has come back fine. I also tested my glucose and insulin because the doctor though the fits may be due to some sort of sugar imbalances. They were not. My sugars are perfect.

I am adjusting my dose as I go, based on how I’m feeling. If I have heart palpitations, diarrhoea or can’t get to sleep I skip the pill the next day.

I was quite disappointed with the doctor at the clinic where I had the laser treatment as he wasn’t attributing how I was feeling tk the laser treatment. From my end - there was nothing else that has changed. I kept taking 75mg every day, same brand, same dose, same protocol (in the morning on an empty stomach half an hour before breakfast).

Right now I am either taking 50mg or nothing. Also going for a second opinion to another clinic, that is familiar with how the laser treatment works.

My preliminary conclusion is that the laser has definitely had an effect as I am taking less medication or none to avoid having ‘hyper’ symptoms. Second conclusion is that the effect of the laser began being felt quite quickly, within about a week of the end of the treatment course (10 days). Because of this, the effect was quite violent. As if a new Mercedes engine has been inserted into my old Lada, which sputtered along with a bit of difficulty as it got used to having that much energy pumping through. I am not underplaying it to say that I as really quite unwell with the ‘hyper’ fits, but which are gradually getting gentler and disappearing, as I adjust my levo dose. It was quite scary when they started.

Lastly, that despite the treatment being performed on patients here, I may have been unlucky with the particular doctor (he is the son of the guy who has pioneered the treatment, and in my view doesn’t seem as competent. His dad is quite old and apparently unwell, so stopped seeing patients a short while ago.) For this laser business to be rolled out, I would love to see a much tighter protocol about observing patients and reducing levo in anticipation of the changes caused by the laser, not after the fact, to avoid the ‘highs’.

The treatment is promising, but we need to understand how it affect different patients. E.g. do some start feeling effects after days, some after weeks, some after months etc. And crucially, what protocol should be in place to manage medication to avoid overdoses that I have been feeling.

Tomorrow I’m going to see this guy, who is specifically a thyroid doctor: dr-md.ru

He seems to use both light and laser therapy, with preference to the former rather than the latter. Will see if I can find out why. Also he has some pretty interesting videos on his blog, where he talks about his experience of treating thyroid patients, and that autoimmunity may be the wrong way to talk about Hashimotos.

Let’s see what he says about what might be happening to me.

[samaja in reply to ThyroidLadyLondon]

Talking about something similar, there is a therapist in Poland who uses the so called Bernard currents used in physiotherapy to treat thyroid (especially Graves) and other conditions

zenniviktor.pl

Might be of interest too.

[ThyroidLadyLondon in reply to Hashisashi]

As far as being a foreigner, I see no reason why you couldn’t come and get the treatment here in Russia. You would need a visa, and a visitors visa would be fine I should think. Ryazan is a popular town for tourism for example, it’s a beautiful ancient russian city with a fascinating history.

The clinics I visited are privately run, so you just turn up and pay. Some private clinics ask for your passport details to make a contracts between you and them before administering the treatment. Then you just pay as you use.

One of the people above has commented that the laser treatment itself is actually already used in physiotherapy already, for things like pain and to speed up muscle repair. It may be that you can find a clinic that administers laser therapy in Holland.

The issue with the treatment is not so much the laser machinery, which in the grand scheme of things is quite inexpensive. It is more about the protocol of the strength and frequency of administering the laser and then then protocol for reducing medication post treatment. I seem to have found he people with the administration protocol, but without the follow up protocols.

I’m more than happy to have a chat or talk to you on Facebook messenger or WhatsApp if you like.

This treatment seems to be worth doing, but with a lot of safeguards and caveats. If I was to do this again, I’d do things differently for myself =)

I’m on facebook, please feel free to add me as a friend m.facebook.com/profile.php?...

[Hashisashi in reply to ThyroidLadyLondon]

Thank you for sharing your experience with and the information about the clinic in Ryazan and the thyroid clinic in Moscow. I can imagine the hyper effects as a result of the laser treatment even though worth trying have been quite scary as you described it.

I hope the doctors of the clinic in Moscow have a good and safe protocol for reducing the levothyroxin in steps. Thanks for inviting me on Facebook, I will add you as a friend to talk or have a chat.

[ThyroidLadyLondon]

Ok, I need to come back here and write a full article on what I have found out about the laser treatment for Hashimotos in Russia. Any help from admin would be most welcome - would love to make this a properly cited report.

In short, the russian city of Ryazan is a sort of a centre of excellence in the use of lasers in Endoctrinology. Profesor Vladimir Georgievich Aristarkhov heads up the department of endocteinology at the city’s main hospital and conducts research through the Pavlov Medical Institute (named after Professor Ivan Pavlov, the nobel laureat, the one of ‘Pavlov’s dogs’ fame, and incidentally whose house, now a museum, is across the road from Aristarkhov’s modest private clinic). He is the author of two Russian patents, which I found myself, on the use of low level light lasers for the rehabilitation of patients with chronic autoimmune hypothyroidism. The treatment has been used in Aeistarkhov’s practice for over 25 years. The lasers used in his private clinic and the state hospital where he works are made in Kaluga, Russia and the laser spectrum used for treatment is publicly available. The treatment is inexpensive as are consultations with the doctor. People, who have come across the treatment on the internet or through word of mouth come from all over Russia to receive treatment in Ryazan.

The effect of the laser treatment is said to vary in efficacy and may need to be repeated up to twice a year (10 consecutive days of treatment of a few minutes each are required). Autoimmunity is not ‘cured’ by the laser therapy, however patients reportedly feel significantly better, are able to reduce their medication, and in some rare cases come off it completely. The laser therapy reduces inflammation and stimulates the body’s innate healing mechanism to allow the thyroid to partially regenerate following the autoimmune attack. It is made clear to patients though that autoimmunity isn’t cured, since once the antibodies are generated by the body against a specific organ they are always around. The laser may help to manage the progression of the problem and improve symptoms.

I am starting my course of 10 days tomorrow. Will do a control blood test beforehand. Currently on 75mg of levo and feeling ok-ish. Frequent migraines, low mood, and an incredibly low tolerance to stress, leading to huge fatigue is what I have found to be my main symptoms since starting taking the hormone last year. I have stopped collapsing in the middle of the day though and have more energy than before. Was diagnosed with Hashimotos aged 35 after having a second baby. In hindsight was probably symptomatic before being diagnosed.

Watch this space for progress.

[samaja in reply to ThyroidLadyLondon]

Very interesting. I hope you will report on your progress. I know there are a lot of Russian inventions and treatment methods most people never heard of which not only work but are also comparatively very cheap. Hope his is one of them

[Hashisashi in reply to ThyroidLadyLondon]

Thank you for this interesting information. I'm also searching for a laser treatment of Hashimoto's myself, because I am having this condition for a long time now (14 years) and I'm still dealing with many symtoms like getting ill all the time in autumn, winter and spring, tiredness, gut problems, low mood and unable to deal with stress despite treatment with levothyroxin and normal lab values (except FT3) ... I'm curious about your progress and wish you well.

[Donnaca]

Hello, I know this post is 4 months old but I wanted to know how you are feeling after the laser therapy. I would be interested in going to Russia to receive this treatment

[ThyroidLadyLondon in reply to Donnaca]

I've just written my latest experience of the laser treatment I undertook. Here:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...