T2 Please!

[zebady]

Hi, i am thinking of going back to NDT, i am a firm believer that T2 is not inert and for that matter neither are the others. But it is this that i would like to know, Does or has anybody heard about a way of buying T2 at all? Does it exist for sale? If there is not it is NDT for me i think…. Many thanks. Michael.

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Zebady

It doesn't exist as a medication or supplement, it's part of the deiodination process, ie T4 > T3 > T2 > T1

[blogfrog in reply to SeasideSusie]

T2 as ,5-Diiodo-L-Thyronine does exist in bodybuilder's fat-burning supplements although these are somewhat harder to source now as they have been pulled from most sites.

I have never tried these but I have read bodybuilder's claims that in this form it burns fat better than T3. And these guys are the experts when it comes to fat-burning supplements.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to blogfrog]

And these guys are the experts when it comes to fat-burning supplements.

Yeah, they're pretty good at abusing their bodies aren't they!

The T2 that we have come across for sale is a high dose of 100mcg, see a recent post about this, it would seem that the dose is excessive:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[blogfrog in reply to SeasideSusie]

Yeah, they're pretty good at abusing their bodies aren't they!

I don't approve of their activities either BUT they are very knowledgeable when it comes to strengths and brands of stuff (when used for their own purposes to cut fat for competitions). I did not mean they have expert medical knowledge, only their knowledge as to what works for them and what doesn't (in the short term without medical oversight).

My main point was in reply to your post, to say that T2 * does * exist as a supplement unlike what you had said: (thanks to the link for the newest post I had not yet seen) and that I know some bodybuilders take it (cycling it as they cycle other thyroid meds and steroids) and they claim it cuts the fat much faster than T3. Why exactly that should be, I don't know. The other brand I am aware of is also 100 mcg per pill and is also 60 pills per container but is cheaper than Weston Childs' one by around 20 dollars.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to blogfrog]

My main point was in reply to your post, to say that T2 * does * exist as a supplement unlike what you had said

This thread is 14 months old, what I said at the time was appropriate then, obviously it is available now. This is the problem with resurrecting old threads, things move on and the information can be out of date.

[blogfrog in reply to SeasideSusie]

Of course, but T2 was also available back then as a supplement (used mainly by bodybuilders), it has been around at least 10 years although it seems only this year that it's getting more traction in the thyroid community.

As for old threads, when I google info on this site as I did to find this old thread on T2, it will not always put results in date order and I didn't even see the latest post until you gave me the link, so I am always grateful when threads are updated with the latest info for people researching the minefield of supplements to make them better as they likely won't see all the posts.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK]

I don't think anyone who knows about thyroid hormones thinks T2 is inert. You appear to be suggesting some people claim it is inert?

But that is a wholly different thing to swallowing tablets of T2.

First, there are three forms of T2 - see this post:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Referring to T2 would usually be 3,5-T2 but as it is not so commonly discussed, there is room for uncertainty.

Second, in a person with no thyroid issues, very little T2 (of any form) comes from the thyroid. Virtually all comes from deiodination of T3 and rT3. Thus, we could expect that in someone who has sufficient thyroid hormone, they would get enough T2. (Though there could well be discussions about whether the necessary quantities of each form are present.) Of course, analogously to poor conversion of T4 to T3, it is possible that some will have less than optimum conversion of T3/rT3 to the various forms of T2.

Third, it appears that much of the T2 used by cells is actually formed in the same cells by deiodination. Which means that a blood test for T2 might not be of much use. In turn, that makes dosing a challenge.

Fourth, there has been little research on transport of T2 and whether it would be stable and capable of being absorbed from the stomach/gut and transported to cells. And any possible effects on the stomach/gut. There have been experiments/trials of T2 but given the formulation and absorption issues of levothyroxine, I'd not easily be convinced they have solved the issues of T2 tablets until proved very clearly.

Fifth, in T2 trials there have been several issues including reducing FT4 and FT3 levels and causing cardiac hypertrophy.

This is one paper:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Sixth, if desiccated thyroid does contain T2, the amount will be small. The iodine content of desiccated thyroid has been repeatedly measured and is known quite accurately. The T4 and T3 content accounts for most of that iodine.

In the past, people have claimed to offer T2 for sale. However, I would be extremely unlikely to believe anyone selling it has the credentials you would expect of any medicine manufacturer. Therefore, I would absolutely not trust it. I am not aware of any current offering of T2, anywhere.

[TSH110 in reply to helvella]

Fascinating thanks for posting there’s a lot more to T2 than I realised, more or less.

[blogfrog in reply to helvella]

It is on ebay among other sites now!! However, they won't deliver to the UK, I guess for legal reasons.

[diogenes Remembering]

It's more likely that T2 taken by mouth will be deiodinated to T1 and excreted, the released iodine perhaps partly going back to the thyroid to make T4 and T3. T2 is actively involved in the interior of cells, stimulating the energy-producing entities known as mitochondria. I think it is made there as a local stimulator of action aimed at energy maintenance.

[TSH110 in reply to diogenes]

Do you think that’s the main driver of feeling too hot or too cold with over and under activity of the thyroid gland? Perhaps it is why I still get hot flushes long after the menopause ending. I also suffer with gustatory sweating but I am not diabetic. Given how rapid it is I think it must be the mitocondria vacillating but it’s just a guess on my part.

[diogenes Remembering in reply to TSH110]

I rather think that feeling hot or cold can result from capillaries near your skin open (feel hot) or close (feel cold) under the influence of kidney hormones such as vasopressin. The feelings are usually transient, which indicates quick acting hormones rising and falling.

[TSH110 in reply to diogenes]

Interesting, why would the kidneys initiate this, just a malfunction? Yes it’s near instantaneous lasts for a short duration (seconds not minutes) and goes away just as rapidly

[diogenes Remembering in reply to TSH110]

The physiological stimulus for secretion of vasopressin is increased osmolality of the plasma, monitored by the hypothalamus.

[TSH110]

Not as far as I know, only in NDT which contains an unknown amount or T3 and your body do the rest.

T2 is not just a waste product of deiodination, it has a known effect on the mitochondria, ie. the power houses in every cell in our body

[jendwall]

I used to feel great on Natural Dessicated Thyroid, along with great blood labs. Then about 3 years ago hypo symptoms began out of nowhere and my labs tanked. Switched to a different NDT, same thing happened a year later. Many in the U.S. complained of same issues.

Because I was weary of switching meds around and no longer trusted NDT, I decided to switch to a combo of levo and T3. Within a few months, my labs looked really great, but honestly my mood felt flat. This flat mood was noticeable the first week or two after I changed over to the levo and T3 combo. I honestly hate it.

And I have often wondered if it is the lacking T1, T2 and Calcitonin the NDT provides. Somehow NDT made me feel better mentally and emotionally. Too bad that NDT became unreliable to keep thyroid labs at optimal levels.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to jendwall]

I have yet to see any evidence that porcine calcitonin can be delivered as part of desiccated thyroid.

When any form of calcitonin has been tested, getting it to survive digestion has been a challenge. Further, there are questions as to whether calcitonin causes cancer - which is why some medicinal products became unavailable or severely restricted.

[jendwall in reply to helvella]

I'm guessing its more the T1 and T2 that I must need? I do not have a thyroid.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to jendwall]

My take is that we simply don't know what it is about desiccated thyroid that makes some people do better by taking it.

There has been, and continues to be, much thought (especially by many who take it ) but little definite evidence. And, of course, much falls into the category of speculation. It is obvious there are many reasons for wanting to know.

[jendwall in reply to helvella]

Thanks for your time responding. Maybe someday we'll know. I just wish so many of us were no longer doing well on NDT with our labs and symptoms.