T2 is important in regulating glucose consumption by heart cells

[diogenes]

This recent post shows that the hormone T2 is important in controlling and stimulating glucose consumption in heart cells. This therefore also promotes more energy supply to the heart.

3,5-Diiodo-l-Thyronine Increases Glucose Consumption in Cardiomyoblasts Without Affecting the Contractile Performance in Rat Heart

Ginevra Sacripanti, Nhat Minh Nguyen, Leonardo Lorenzini, Sabina Frascarelli, Alessandro Saba , Riccardo Zucchi and Sandra Ghelardoni

Published on 30 May 2018

Front. Endocrinol. doi: 10.3389/fendo.2018.00282

[Hidden]

How will this affect someone on T3 only?

[diogenes Remembering in reply to Hidden]

Not at all. T2 is made from T3.

[Hidden in reply to diogenes]

That's what I thought but wanted your opinion. Thanks.

[jgelliss in reply to diogenes]

doigenes ,

Thank you for sharing wonderful and most valuable information's with us . It's Most appreciated .

Are you perhaps thinking of writing a book ? I know that it would be the most informative thyroid book ever . I for one would Love it I'm sure many of us going thru our thyroid journeys would Welcome your knowledge shared in a book .

[diogenes Remembering in reply to jgelliss]

We've still got papers submitted, and one basically accepted, as well as some wrapping up to do of the relationship between how much T3 the thyroid puts out direct in an individual versus how much T4 is converted in the body, how variable this is person to person, and whether "healthy" FT3 levels have any bearing on future needs for T3 as well as T4 when the thyroid fails. There has got to be some complex interrelationship between all these factors, which both define the individual and predict treatment optimisation. The real problem nowadays is just how difficult it is to publish, with journals becoming ever more pernickety and reviewers ever more dense. Just perhaps when the story is thought to be essentially complete could we think of putting it all together.

[Hidden in reply to diogenes]

I would buy it.

[NickP1 in reply to diogenes]

Many thanks for the info.

How does this affect those on T4 only with conversion issues.

[diogenes Remembering in reply to NickP1]

It shouldn't do. As long as you have some T3, enough will be converted to T2 as the level of this is small compared with T3.

[Baobabs in reply to diogenes]

Are there possibly issues with T3 to T2 conversion as is frequently documented here with T4 to T3 conversion?

[diogenes Remembering in reply to Baobabs]

None has ever been documented, but a gross shortage of T3 might affect things.

[Baobabs in reply to diogenes]

Thank you, just very interesting to know how these T's work with one another and what they affect in the body. Thyroid issues are very complex and such a far cry from my GP's take when I was first diagnosed with Hashi's of 'You just take one tablet of Levo per day and everything will be ok.' Pie in the sky, magic wand and all that.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to diogenes]

Is rT3 converted to T2?

[Katepots]

Thanks for this post Diogenes.

There seems to be a trend of people starting to take T2 without any testing. It’s being sold on Amazon and other retailers. I worry that people are playing with what is a very delicate system, what are your thoughts?

[diogenes Remembering in reply to Katepots]

I t hink it is either a waste of time (likely) because excess T2 simply goes to T1 and then back to the thyroid as iodide, or it is unwise because there's no evidence of T2 lack in anyone documented.

[Hidden in reply to diogenes]

This is not the atrial fibrillation forum but I believe one day someone will realize there are probably many more patients who have atrial fib triggered by undiagnosed, undertreated hypothyoidism. Just my opinion. But hypothyroidism is documented as the main cause of my a-fib (AF). My AF is fine but I am still fighting with the endos trying to become euthroid. My biggest champion re achieving effective thyroid care is my Electrophysiologist. What's wrong with this picture?

[Hidden in reply to diogenes]

Doesn't NDT contain T2?

[RedApple in reply to Hidden]

It's been claimed to be the case by some people, and indeed it may do. But I don't think there are any guarantees. No NDT manufacturer ever declares any T2 content, so at best, the amount might vary from non at all to 'who knows how much'.

[Hidden]

Hi D. Is there any news about how this will be supplied? Can we convert anything we already take or will it mean an additional medication? If so, I'm gearing up for the battles that will surely ensue. Also, in your opinion do you think endos might eventually be less skittish about providing enough thyroid med to atrial fibrillation patients so we don't have to choose between being stable cardiac-wise and being euthroid? I know this is already possible from a cardiac standpoint as I am well-controlled with my pacemaker, ablation, no meds treatment plan but I feel it's going to be a steep learning curve for endos. Just my opinion. Thanks for your thoughts. irina1975

[Hidden]

Hi D. Should have read the replies first. Sorry. But it begs another hypothetical question. Is it possible that the amount of T3 will possibly need to be increased so there is enough to meet our T3 needs and also convert some to T2? I can already envision a lot of endos crossing their eyes and scratching their heads!

[diogenes Remembering]

Until some studies link T2 levels to T3, then we can't progress.

[UrsaP]

linda96 Have you seen this one.

[LAHs]

Interesting post diogenes, thanks. I read a paper by Greg Kelly who explained that Selenium (Se) is the catalyst for the T4 to T3 conversion and also the T3 to T2 conversion. (And I think it also said the T2 to T1 conversion). So for me that tells me that Se is as important as getting vit D, vitB12, folate, ferritin etc to optimal levels. I think every member of this incredible chain has an important function and I am glad the light is beginning to glimmer on T2.

[Hidden in reply to LAHs]

Hi LAH What is the recommended dose of selenium for optimal conversion? It's already been established I'm a poor converter from T4 to T3. So it stands to reason I don't convert T3 to T2 well. Also, what are the better brands? (US). Thanks, irina

[helvella Administrator in reply to Hidden]

You could do worse than look here:

ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/S...

Our actual total need seems to be about 55 micograms. However, I do not know how efficiently we absorb it from foods or supplements.

[Hidden in reply to helvella]

Thanks, helvella. Very helpful article. Three foods on the list that are high and that I eat regularly are liver, sardines, and brazil nuts. So will hold off on supplements and watch T4 and T3 numbers as I have recently gotten on T3 and a higher dose of Synthroid. Thanks again. Bookmarked article. It also sounds like it's better to obtain from the animal sources. God only knows if there are any decent nutrients left in anyone's soil!

[LAHs in reply to Hidden]

Hi Irina, looks like Helvella answered your dosage question. Regarding Helvella's mention about absorption I think the only way to determine this is to get a blood test of your basal selenium (Se) level - or the level at which you are currently taking foods containing Se, then adjust accordingly. That is what I did. I measured my Se level, it was below the mid point, I ordered Brazil nuts from nuts.com (US), took two a day and my level rose. I just stuck to that, it seems to work. If you strike out on a brand that is grown on Se poor soil, either eat more of those nuts per day (2 is optimal) or change the brand and measure again. Nuts.com seem to have high quality products and they are very efficient with shipping.

BTW, you are so lucky to be able to stomach liver! I congratulate you. It fixes so many problems, wish I could eat it.

If this doesn't work for you, you might want to change to Armour NDT, you will then get all of the T's in a better than human ratio. They are on the East coast somewhere and are very helpful on the phone and might be able to tell you of a doctor that will prescribe it in your area. But fasten your seat belt it's a bit expensive, I pay $140 for a three month supply.

[Hidden in reply to LAHs]

Thanks LAH. Very helpful info. Will try nuts.com as I am already feeling a little overwhelmed by how quickly the number of supplements I'm taking seems to multiply. And gets expensive too when prescriptions are added in. I will ask my new doc about the Armour NDT. Since more info is being discovered about the individual thyroid hormones, it seems reasonable that eventually we will need all of them-1,2,3,4. Might as well start trying to take them now if we can. And, by the way, I HATE liver but by eating it weekly my ferritin has risen to the point that my restless leg symptoms are almost non- existent. I can tell if I skip a week. I don't want to take anything that involves my G. I. tract so liver it is. I just eat it fast and pretend it is nasty medicine. LOL Take care. irina 😊

[silverfox7]

Thank you for posting. I have always assumed that if my body does this then there must be a reason for it so I feel very much that Levo isn't the answer long term. I started my journey on NHS NDT then a prolonged strike made me want to try Levo and to be fair it worked well for a long time but started failing me eventually as I aged. So not surprised by your findings. Thank you!

[mourneadventurer]

Thank you Diogenes for your invaluable and pertinent research. My personal experience would concur.

Challenging bradycardia and arrhythmia thus far has taken me from T4 in range for 28 years, then T4/T3 in range for the past 2-5 years and improving but not normal heart rate and function.

An Invivo GI map test showed the RNA of pathogens. I showed this veritable zoo list to the endocrinologist and asked that he measure and monitor Free T4/T3 and reverse T3 the latter result showed an extremely high reverse T3. My T4/T3 ratio was altered accordingly and will be monitored by the endocrinologist within 3 months as usual.

My heart function is “mostly” normal now. Though I haven’t yet had this rechecked officially by the cardiac electophysiologist.

I surmise/hypothesise that reverse T3 does not readily convert to T2 in tandem with the underlying zoo diminishes vital minerals and vitamins.

I also have been able to tell to the minute when my heart needed T3 since starting it!