T2

[annnsandell]

I understand that it is now believed that T2, like T3, is produced by the Thyroid as well as through conversion, much like T3, and that this small amount is responsible for particularly metabolism and:

Affecting and improving cholesterol

Maintaining muscular activity

Helping the liver and muscles burn fat

Protecting renal function

Treating and optimizing your muscles

Predicting lower body mass and better blood sugar

Possibly all the things that are wrong with me. I have searched on the HealthUnlocked website and find little additional information although I understand that it is not available as a drug to be prescribed.

Any thoughts?

[helvella]

Even if a tiny amount of T2 is produced in the thyroid, it will be much less than is produced by deiodination of T3 in the cells of the rest of the body.

There has in the past clearly been confusion between diiodotyrosine (DIT) and T2. DIT is an intermediate compound in the making of T4 and T3 within the thyroid.

This link takes you to the nearly-100 papers in PubMed which mention T2 (in humans):

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?te...

Some are quite readable - not that I have read them all! All I have done is have a quick glance at a few.

[pennyannie]

Hello there :

I'm taking Natura Desiccated Thyroid which is pig thyroid dried and ground down into tablets referred to as grains.

NDT contains all the same known hormones as that of the human thyroid gland, namely trace elements of T1, T2 and calcitonin plus a measure of T3 and T4 in each grain.

NDT was the treatment of choice and successfully used to treat hypothyroidism for over 100 years prior to Big Pharma launching synthetic T3 and T4 thyroid hormones i around the middle of the last century.

Natural Desiccated is meant to be available on the NHS as a " named patient only " prescription.

I gave up fighting for recognition of my ill health issues when on monotherapy with T4 - Levothyroxine and now buy my own full spectrum thyroid hormone replacement and am now much improved and have back my independence.

I'm with Graves post RAI thyroid ablation in 2005 and become very unwell around 8 years later and managing lingering Graves, thyroid eye disease - caused by the RAI amongst other things - and hypothyroidism.

[helvella in reply to pennyannie]

What we don't know is how much T2, T1 and calcitonin is present. And whether it can effectively be delivered via desiccated thyroid tablets, satisfactorily absorbed and in sufficient quantity to have any effect.

As a medicine, calcitonin has been delivered nasally because it gets destroyed in the stomach.

Desiccated thyroid didn't appear until after 1892 - with levothyroxine and liothyronine appearing, effectively, in the 1950s. So nearer sixty years than 100!

I absolutely support use of desiccated thyroid as an option - just in case it appears otherwise.

[pennyannie]

Well, I'm sure doctors who were treating patients with NDT didn't, overnight, in the 1950s, wake up and switch everybody to synthetic thyroid hormone replacement.

I found my youngish doctor had no knowledge of NDT when I asked to try it in 2014 and so started the rift in our relationship as I was made to feel I was mad and despatched with anti depressants.

This forum exists because of the lack of basic thyroid knowledge we encounter in primary care, so I think we need to look at what is taught in current day medical school.

Currently in primary care, there is only a T4 - Levothyroxine prescription whilst 20 odd years ago a doctor had the autonomy to prescribe an alternative thyroid hormone replacement should T4 not fully restore the patient's health and wellbeing.

[helvella in reply to pennyannie]

Well, I'm sure doctors who were treating patients with NDT didn't, overnight, in the 1950s, wake up and switch everybody to synthetic thyroid hormone replacement.

But within thirty years they pretty much had done so in the UK.

Not only did they move almost everyone from desiccated thyroid, they did so without the controlled trials that should have been demanded, and also more or less abandoned liothyronine.

helvella - The end of Thyroid BP

A published letter which highlights the attitude regarding desiccated thyroid shortly before it was dropped from the British Pharmacopoeia.

dropbox.com/s/zbiyjk19wjsq4...

Yes, regarding autonomy but even then there were difficulties in getting any desiccated thyroid prescribed. Not being in the BP automatically meant that any products were imports with implications for cost, and willingness of the whole system to supply.

[diogenes Remembering]

I don't know any references that say that T2 is produced directly by the thyroid. However this downloable paper discusses T2 and its actions.

HYPOTHESIS AND THEORY article

Front. Endocrinol., 08 January 2020 |

doi.org/10.3389/fendo.2019....

3,5-T2—A Janus-Faced Thyroid Hormone Metabolite Exerts Both Canonical T3-Mimetic Endocrine and Intracrine Hepatic Action

Josef Köhrle1*, Ina Lehmphul1, Maik Pietzner2,3, Kostja Renko1, Eddy Rijntjes1, Keith Richards1, João Anselmo4, Mark Danielsen5 and Jacqueline Jonklaas5

[pennyannie in reply to diogenes]

Golly -

I'll need a lay down before I even start, and there's no conclusion paragraph at the end !!!

[tattybogle in reply to pennyannie]

it's not just you pennyannie .. i'd need to go look up who 'Janus' is .. and what 'Intracrine' means. Coming here's been very good for broadening my education.

[helvella in reply to tattybogle]

Janus is a two-faced Roman god. Usually depicted with a second face on the back of the head.

The character, often in clever make-up and exploiting fancy filming, has appeared in numerous films, TV series, etc. I remember a particularly an episode of The Avengers (Diana Rigg era).

[tattybogle in reply to helvella]

Ah , thankyou . I was usually sent to bed before the Avengers , so i must have missed that one .... and i was usually sent out of 'Classical Studies' by Mrs Reay for making silly popping noises with a finger in my mouth whenever she went into the store cupboard.

[helvella in reply to tattybogle]

As we have been discussing, T3 is deiodinated inside a cell to T2. Then that T2 acts within that same cell.

As I understand that is what intracrine means.

It is also why there seems little hope of a useful T2 blood test.

[tattybogle in reply to helvella]

as opposed to Endo-crine ,where something trots off to act on another cell somewhere else ?

[helvella in reply to tattybogle]

Quite so.

And paracrine where it nudges the next cell - or a few cells away!

[pennyannie in reply to tattybogle]

Ditto :

I 'm sorry but I didn't even find Janus, though now remember I know of him ( Saturday Times Big Weekly Crossword ) as I found the whole article too daunting :

However I have met several two faced people in my life, and now try and steer clear.

The trouble is recognising them before you get involved, as it seems a life long learning curve.

[annnsandell]

Thank you all for a lot more reading matter and thought. My GP is currently being supportive, not sure if this will continue if I raise this, we'll see. It does appear to outline all my problems. Very interesting.

[helvella in reply to annnsandell]

Adding call outs:

diogenes pennyannie