hi,
I was reading about t2 and that it can be the missing hormon in thyroid issues.
did somebody try this?you can buy it online and I see a lot of bodybuilders use it?
it can help with metabolism and muscles issues.
I was wondering what it can do if you are Hypo.
You can’t buy it as a standalone product. It is a breakdown product of the active thyroid hormone T3. If you took T3, which body builders do indeed abuse, or NDT which hasT3 and T2 in it (no one knows how much t2 or if it is enough to have any effect) you would most likely get some T2 if not directly by breakdown in the body. However t4 is also broken down in to T3 then T2 etc so good converters of Levothyroxine may eventually get some T2 by this route.
rT3 is also converted to T2, so I think the average hypo on levo gets plenty of T2. 
I am always suspicious of what bodybuilders say and do.
It is important to realise that there are three forms of T2 - and they are often not properly distinguished.
3,5-diiodothyronine (3,5-T2)
3,3'-diiodothyronine (3,3'-T2)
3',5'-diiodothyronine (3',5'-T2)
Remember that any form of T2 in our bodies comes from T3 and/or rT3. Therefore inadequate or excess T4 or T3 could be affecting amount of T2 (whichever form being discussed) and might be a better choice to medication.
I never knew there were three types of T2 . How can they know this but not be able to quantify it in NDT?
Is there a meaningful difference between the types where we are concerned?
I'd look at it another way.
Desiccated thyroid used to be assessed not by T4 and T3 content, but by iodine content. Which would include T2 (and T1).
As I understand, the majority of the iodine is accounted for by T4 and T3 content - which we now measure directly (since 1985 in the USA). Leaving little to be accounted for by other substances.
The majority of T2 in our bodies is a metabolic product from other thyroid hormones. Thus changes in levels of T4 and rT3 and T3 will have an impact on T2. We can suggest that at least the total amount of all T2 will be based on the amounts of T4 and T3.
If we discuss micrograms, we need to allow for the loss of an iodine atom. But even then, the absolute amount of T2 must be much, much lower in desiccated thyroid than produced from other thyroid hormones.
Modern analysis techniques are phenomenal. Other than any issues due to molecules of thyroid hormones attached to proteins, they can measure T4, T3 and T2. I don't think anyone who is informed claims it is impossible to measure T2.
But what does it mean to see varying T2 levels? Does it have any real impact on the patient? - Especially if we accept the amount is very small compared to what we ourselves make.
We have no technique for measuring T2 in living humans as it is made within cells and, at least mostly, does not get distributed by blood. Therefore not capable of being measured by a blood test.
And there are also other substances - a whole tree of thyroid hormone derivatives/metabolites - amines, sulfates, glucoronides.
So in theory be possible to work it out if you measured total iodine and took off T4 and T3 values. That would give the T2 and T1. If production of T4 and T3 proportions vary so much from individual to individual and over time in each person I wonder if the others vary too and are also dynamic and what might be driving them. If there are three types of T2 what implications might that have? I also wonder if some are poor converters of T3 to T2 (the same ones who struggle with T4 to T3 conversion or a different set of people altogether?) as perhaps that is why the thyroid makes a little directly as a safety net?
No it would NOT give T2 and T1. 
It would give T2, T1, MIT, DIT, iodine in the Sodium/iodide cotransporter, and any other iodine-containing substances!
If you were a poor converter of T3 to T2, you might actually have relatively high T3 levels. The amount of T3 we measure is the balance point between making and destroying T3 - accounting for all metabolic routes. Shift anything at all, and they could all change.
Oh boy its so darn complicated! So my simplistic idea’s gone for a burton just goes to show that a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing . I wonder if that could explain why some on NDT don’t get to a preferred weight too much t3 stopping t2 getting those mitochondria churning out the energy! Yes it’s all dynamic too it’s a wonder it stays in balance most of the time until things go wrong with thyroid disease
TSH110,
Exactly.
When the body has more T3 than it requires a safety mechanism up-regulates D3 enzyme that converts T3 to an inactive form of T2. D3 easily becomes driven with any health negativities and sometime difficult too down regulate.
An up-regulated D3 will also simultaneously convert any FT4 to RT3 and so it becomes a double whammy of both thyroid hormones becoming compromised.
it could be possible that if you are hypo you also dont have affecting amount of t2.
Why? How? If you're taking thyroid hormone replacement - T4 or T3 - you are going to have T2.
This doctor I was listening has podcast. She days She follows sciences talks about studies on t2. That if you are hypo you can have lower t2 and there for be a missing link for thyroid health. Even if you use medication this can be the case. Like t4 alone does not help us. Maybe t4 /t3 is for some not enough.But there is not much research jet on t2. Anyway I was curious if some hypothyroid people maybe did try this.
Not everybody that talks about thyroid knows what they're talking about. If you are on an adequate dose of T4/T3, there is no reason why you shouldn't have enough T2, as I see it. T4 converts to T3 and rT3, and T3/rT3 convert to T2.
But, I've never heard of anyone taking T2. I did see it for sale once, and it said 'email me for a price quote'. I did, and the price was exorbitant! So, I abandoned the idea.
Blimey it must have been a scam!
I don't know. If it was intended for body-builders, they don't seem to worry about how much they spend, so could have been on the level - ish. lol
They are crazy nutters - who’d want to look like that? Its grotesque. I simply can’t justify it, it’s all so wrong taking those hormones for sheer vanity and messing it up for us who really need them. I did a lot of gym work once upon a time and I never ever got to look anywhere like they do. Just defined, but normal looking. It must be down to drugs.
I don't understand it, either. It's like they come from another planet, or are a new and different species of human being. But, I certainly wouldn't want to look like that! 🤣🤣🤣
Can’t think why 🤣🤣🤣
I did pretty much look like that - not quite that good (or bad, depending on your point of view) without steroids. Was Miss North Britain Physique runner-up many years ago. But body builders are pretty unhealthy in general and also tend to destroy their relationships (so physically and mentally unhealthy)
I’m impressed. I could not get that pumped look no matter how much weights I did.
I think it’s the drug aspect that I find troubling it must do a lot of long term damage to the individual, but I can appreciate the huge discipline and effort involved to get such a physique and why shouldn’t women have muscles? Then there’s the routine to perfect as well. My younger sister thought about it as she could build better than me and has a much better physique to start with but she was put off by the routine side of it . She was good at gymnastics so I would have thought she could have come up with a good one!
What drew you to it?
A friend of mine wanted to lose weight, so joined a gym and wanted company. I ended up being a competitive body builder and she gave it up. I like lists and routine. Much the same thing happened when she wanted to give up smoking. I gave up and she didn't. I tend to be a follower ... When I was much, much younger, my best friend wanted riding lessons, so I got them as well. I became a horse riding instructor and she became a dentist. Story of my life!
Wow a lady of many talents!
I love routine too. I was addicted to the gym but my my body type is lean/wiry bar the belly which has always been obdurate I did once get a vague six pack but it was hard to spot! I still do a physical job so have retained some definition but it’s more and more to the extremities as things like bat wings have turned my arms scrawny at the top - the crepe effect 🤣🤣🤣
oh well you can’t be 21 for ever.
There has been significant research on T2.
Perhaps not as much as we would like. But that will almost always be the case.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?te...
It might also be of interest for you to tell us which podcast, by which doctor. I'd be surprised if we haven't reached at least hundreds of thousands of thyroid-related podcasts. Likely many thousands, tens of thousands, by doctors.
I just looked up buying Thyroid T2 online and it came up with all sort of stuff from outlandish claims to genuine thyroid tests. Got to be careful when our thyroids are out of kilter as it can throw up all sorts of strange symptoms and effects our mental and emotional state too and can make us vulnerable to all sorts in the search for normality. Back in the 70s before I was even diagnosed I spent a small fortune on homeopathic remedies and supplements. I reckon you’d need a degree in bio-chemistry and complex feedback loops - and the rest to really understand the thyroid. In the U.K. you can add pricing and politics. Then there’s the arrogance of some male doctors versus mainly female patients. On so many levels it’s really complex!
Take care...
It’s really not that simple, especially for people who are not good converters or who have genetic defects affecting their body’s ability to use the medications.
I thought the thyroid also made some t1 and t2?
Even if it does, I am confident the amount will be tiny compared with what is produced by de-iodinating T3 (and T2, in turn).
And I am certain that some references to that are based on misunderstanding. Confusing DIT with T2, MIT with T1.
may I ask Rod, do you have thyroid disease or are you just generally a fountain of knowledge for fun? 🙂
I am hypothyroid!
Dr. Amie hornaman she also sales t2 I believe, and talks about how she treats patients. And the science behind it. I thought it was very interesting.
I detest and distrust people who loudly proclaim "Doctor" but don't provide a reasonably simple way of checking what qualifications they actually hold. For example, GMC number in the UK.
So, I did what you should do…I started working with a Functional Medicine Practitioner who is now my mentor. My thyroid was optimized and I got my life back. I then decided to pursue a Master Degree in Clinical Nutrition and become a certified Functional Medicine Practitioner. Now I’m a Doctor of Clinical Nutrition as well a leading Functional Medicine expert in thyroid conditions, hormonal dysfunction and weight issues. It takes clinical investigation to get to the underlying factors of chronic disease. You can’t band-aid your symptoms and wish them to go away. It doesn’t work that way. We have to customize your treatment plans in order to fit YOU. In a nutshell…that’s what I do. I fix broken metabolisms and broken people. I give you your life back.
dramiehornaman.com/en-gb/pa...
she also sales t2
I bet she does!
Thyroid Fixxr. Her branding quirk seems to be using double-X in product names.
Description, which only appears on the product label image, says:
T2+CONVERSION FACTORS $44.99
No list of ingredients. No identification of allergens. No nutritional or therapeutic information.
And that lack of information applies to most of the products I looked at. Maybe one named substance, several veiled hints.
If anyone thinks I am just missing the information, please let me know.
But some of these functional medicine people talk more sense than a gmc qualified doctor, tho perhaps not this one!
I'm not against functional medicine people. I am against all medical and healthcare people who go so far as to have their own websites but don't clearly point where you can check their qualifications.
And, yes, qualification alone is not a determinant of anything! But we should be able to check. And it is only by pointing at public, official lists that we can do so.
I totally agree, I was just being mischievous.
Alarm bells ring immediately when their “products” start to be heavily pushed. It’s very American I suppose, but for me it’s a sure fire way to make me highly suspicious of what they are about.
Call me old fashioned but I’m with David Attenborough - once you advertise something your credibility is gone.
I have never seen a functional doctor - nor would I! But, judging by what one reads on here of others experiences, no, they don't talk more sense. They're just as ignorant, but have a lot of fanciful ideas.
I thought I’d see what their official take is on thyroid disorder. It’s all pretty tame stuff re diet and environment but I notice iodine is mentioned in this blurb. There seems to be an effort to avoid thyroid hormone therapy which may sound good in theory but in practice it’s not tenable if your thyroid is going down the pan.
ifm.org/news-insights/balan...
Pffft Pie in the sky!
Made visual!
You're good at this, aren't you. lol
They're just like any healthcare provider...human. Some will help you, some will hurt you. Some are patient oriented, some are self important. Some have intellectual humility, some incurable arrogance. Many have a "hobby horse" and difficulty focusing outside their interest. Wherever one goes, whomever one consults, I find it best to get as much of solid information as possible and base one's decision on how to proceed on that. This decision can be as right or as wrong as that of those one turns to for help but at least it is based on a knowledge of oneself that no other person can have. As Socrates said, "To find yourself, think for yourself." Healthcare providers of any stripe can give valuable information or talk complete nonsense (and anything in between). I find it is up to me to sort that out.
All that is very true. But far too many people think that doctors know everything and treat them accordingly, never thinking for themselves or questioning or even learning about their disease. We don't see many people like that on here, because given their nature, it wouldn't occur to them to come on here, but we do see the odd one or two. And, these people need encouragement to be proactive in order to get well.
Could not agree more. I was a believer for decades myself. And doctors do their best to keep it that way. Sometimes it feels to me like that's their foremost job and goal. My experience is also that strong believers will NOT and under no circumstances relinquish the firm faith in the omniscience of doctors (not even if presented with an overwhelming number of research). I was fortunate enough to end up with a doctor who spouted absolute and obvious (even to me at the time) nonsense continuously. It was like being slapped in the face endlessly until I woke up from my trance and opened my eyes to reality. So I guess, I should be really grateful to that doctor, even though she did a lot of damage. 
I can't remember when I lost faith in doctors. It might have been when I was four years old with measles. Or it might have been when I was sixteen and went for help with excrutiating menstrual cramps and was told to learn to live with it. Or when I was 23 and a first time mother and accused of being an 'anxious mother' because I was concerned for my baby's welfare. But it was more like four years old, I think, with a butcher of a doctor who treated me more like a piece of meat than a living being, and told me to shut up when I tried to speak. And, no doctor I've ever seen has ever restored my faith in them - oh, except perhaps the surgeon who took my gallbladder out, who was an old-style gentleman - so curteous and kind. But, I only saw him once. He didn't even come to see me after the op! lol Handsome is as handsome does, I always say.
Wow, you learned your lesson at a very early age. I grew up in practice, my father being a dentist and his next door best friend, and my godfather, being a GP. So I had no reason to fear the white coat. We were all "one happy family". And even after a number of medical mishaps (some of which I was lucky to survive and/or only had minor damage from) I still was unable to see reality. I do remember the story of uncle Tony prescribing Contergan for my mom and my dad talking her out of taking it (long story). Thalidomide, the main component of Contergan, leading to deformities in babies (my generation had a lot of those kids with holes in their feet and fingers growing out of their shoulders). But I never made a connection. It really took me a very long time to come out of the conditioning that doctors are your best friend.
Your responses are awfully opinionated and negative. Not really helpful when people are just seeking information and a way to heal themselves.
Well, that answer is very helpful for a start! This thread is from yesterday, I can't remember everything I said on here. You're criticising something I've said but I don't know what it was. And whilst I might be opinionated - although I'm not sure about that - I really object to being called negative! I don't think I'm negative at all. Just realistic.
But, if you don't want to tell me what you're talking about, that's fine. Have a good night.
Now I’m a Doctor of Clinical Nutrition as well a leading Functional Medicine expert in thyroid conditions, hormonal dysfunction and weight issues.
And how would she manage that? Given the over-all ignorance of all things thyroid in medical schools, where would she get the knowledge to become an expert in thyroid conditions? Who taught her? She may think she's an expert and knows all there is to know, but if her teachers only had the usual level of thyroid knowledge then her expertise doesn't count for much.
She needs to get on here 🤣🤣🤣
You’d eat her for breakfast!
(in case you're really bored !) I was just reading a transcript of her having a chat about her views with westin childs on his website .
restartmed.com/thyroid-weig...
thyroid-weight-loss-tsh-suppression-iodine-supplements-more-dr-amie-dr-westin-childs/
Don't think I could ever be that bored! I'd rather do housework.
i'm supposed to be doing 'house' work... need to finish removing some 50yr old wallpaper and paint , but suspect it's all that's holding the 125yr old plaster up.... so am putting it off till i feel braver .
Well, rather you than me, that's all I can say! And in this heat, too! Insane.
i live 'up north' .. by the sea . not too hot here .. quite nice in fact . and anyway old victorian terraces are extremely good at letting the heat out, it's like living in a massive chimney. (sadly ~same applies in winter )
My house is the exact opposite. It's made of red brick which absorbs the heat during the day, and lets it out into the rooms during the night. The same doesn't apply in the winter! But, all that is being changed as we speak! A good coating of insulation and a coat of white paint should work wonders!
If you edited that transcript - took out most of the unnecessary words, the back-and-forth language, avoided the digressions (which are never needed) - it would still come out as stodgy as the thickest porage but might not take so long to read.
I find many podcasts like this impossible to listen to. The language puts me on edge from the first moment. (No - I didn't even consider listening to this. Reading was bad enough.)
like !
God it was so boring tat I just could not concentrate on it but they do seem to like iodine
Thyroid Fixxr Contains:
Coleus Forskohlii 100mg
L-Tyrosine 100mg
3.5 Diiodothyronine 75mcg
Bioperine (95% piperin extract -piper nigrum) 5mg
"WARNING Individuals who consume caffeine with this product may experience serious adverse health effects .Individuals who are sensitive to the effects of caffeine should consult a licenced health care professional before consuming this product ."
Um .. so i presume 'humans ' are 'sensitive to the effects of caffeine' ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coleus Forskohlii ~ is a plant extract ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl... Effects of Coleus Forskohlii Supplementation on Body Composition and Hematological Profiles in Mildly Overweight Women
(i haven't read it, ..... but what's the betting it causes weight loss, and is probably included the 'Thyoid Fixxr' to achieve the weight loss effect that the T2 is claimed to be producing )
I don't know why I couldn't find that! Thanks.
75 micrograms of T2 would represent the result of the total conversion of about 110 micrograms of T4.
I wonder how much T2 ever gets into cells? My naive understanding is that we do not transport T2 via blood so there would be no need for a T2-transfer mechanism (from blood into cell).
Coleus Forskohlii is also included in ThyroGold.
had to copy it off the label in the picture of the product .. it's not in the sales blurb .
I looked at the picture!
Doing that (putting information in as an image) is an accessibility issue. Most screenreaders (used by those with impaired or no eyesight) would not find the information, nor convert it into speech.
i'm a luddite so i just read it and copied it out using my eyes and fingers
but i take your point .. i have functioning eyes and fingers
so ....so if the iodine in T3 is recycled to T2 , to T1 ,to T0..... then ... erm is taking extra T2 in effect a form of "iodine supplementation by another name" ?
In that sense, absolutely.
However, at any step, the product (T3, T2, T1) could become attached to sulfate, glucoronide, amine, and become a molecule with different properties. One which could be excreted thus removing it from further release of iodine atoms.
About 47% (by mass) of T2 is iodine.
In case anyone wants to look the iodine content up, there is a section of my Vade Mecum which has tables:
helvella - Vade Mecum for Thyroid
The term vade mecum means:
1. A referential book such as a handbook or manual.
2. A useful object, constantly carried on one’s person.
Please don't get put off by the number of pages!
Nor by the fact it is targeted at people interested in thyroid issues. Much of its contents could be of use to many involved in health issues. Things like abbreviations, lists, general reference information.
In particular, it is not intended that you sit and read the document. Just that you download it and know you can look things up.
If there is anything you'd like me to add, let me know.
Not everything is in this one document - my major medicines document is still separate!
From Dropbox:
dropbox.com/s/vp5ct1cwc03bl...
From Google Drive:
drive.google.com/file/d/1ZW...
There is a list of ingredients it does contain t2.
Yes - I've been told now.
Have a read of this paper and then consider whether T2 seems a worth it:
3,5-Diiodo-L-Thyronine (T2) in Dietary Supplements: What Are the Physiological Effects?
In the meantime, the current literature and the results presented by Jonas et al (11) indicate that, in addition to increased metabolism and reduced fat mass, T2 administration also leads to suppression of the HPT axis, increased food intake, and cardiac hypertrophy. A particular point of concern is the observation that the lower dose of T2 used by the authors exerts negligible effects on adiposity and metabolic outcomes, yet results in a marked suppression of the HPT axis leading to reduced levels of circulating T4 and T3 (and presumably TSH), with unknown long-term consequences. The implication of this finding is that, for a given dose, the detrimental effects of T2 on the HPT axis may preferentially occur before the intended metabolic ones. Thus, for the time being, these new data should compel users of T2-containing supplements to assess their thyroid status, err on the side of caution, and limit their daily dose, as appropriate.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
👍you people are awesome 😎
Things are worse than you think. Just been discharged from hospital and had paperwork signed by Dr Bloggs (Fellow).
He was indeed a pleasant fellow and in an amicable conversation he told me that he had a PhD and a clinical interest in the area of medicine I was admitted for. Never been to medical school. ……. but I must say that he had a wonderful bedside manner and empathy with patients.
You can’t judge a book by its cover
I take NDT which has T4 T3 T2 T1 and calcitonin. Pigs thyroid. The ratios and different from a humans but it works well for me.
Do you know any calcitonin can get into the body? When used as a medicine, they avoid delivering it orally as it gets destroyed by enzymes in the stomach.
And do we know if T2 and T1 can actually be absorbed from desiccated thyroid and delivered to cells? (Any T2 and T1 present in the product will be in very small quantities to begin with.)
Thanks I only knew that the amount were tiny.
NDT is the only thing that works for me. Tried Levo and then T3 and a combo. It didn’t help. At least not longer than a few months. And yes I did increase doses as appropriate 😊 With NDT I’m a new woman. I have no idea if that’s down to T2 or T1 or the fact it’s pig (not synthetic).
I do have Central hypothyroidism, so not sure if that influences things at all.
I’ve only recently read about it. Waiting for an order to arrive. My only concern is that it won’t work for me because I don’t have a thyroid. Will report back if it helps and / or it has positive / negative side effects.
I am curious what it does for you. I did read that for people without thyroid is even more helpful. If it is true we don't know.
🤞🏻I hope so and will let you know. The supply I purchased is pure 3,5-Diiodo-L-thyronine with hundreds of great reviews.
I hope you read the link I posted earlier?
Hundreds of great reviews actually makes me suspicious. Not difficult to arrange reviews to be bumped up.
Take care.
T2 Just What Does It Do?
Having a look at what T2 does
How to Balance Hormones
Metformin,T2 Diabetes & hypothyroidism … effects?
Do all NDT brands also contain T1 and T2?
