I decided I need to get my arse into gear and get rid of a few of the hypo added pounds of flab so I fit into my wetsuit this year. So 3 weeks ago I started Whole30 (exclusion diet plan, basically no grains, cereal (hence gluten), alcohol, dairy, soy, pulses; so virtually a more severe version of the recommended hashi’s diet). It’s only for 30 days though, I’m using it as a re-set to wean me off the need to eat something every time I go into the kitchen, to wean me off my reliance on rice cakes, to stop me sitting on the sofa with a tub of ice cream and a spoon (which never ends well), and to stop the mug cake habit!
I gave blood at the beginning of April.
I’m on 100mcg levo each day, taken first thing (I have an alarm set an hour before my proper alarm) with just water.
My ‘routine’ blood test (mine, not GP’s, he seems happy to ignore me at the moment and I’m hoping that will continue unless I need him to do a blood test for some reason) is at the beginning of June. But I’ve realised recently that I’ve been feeling rough for a couple of months. I have a half iron triathlon coming up (6th June, eek!) and just haven’t had the mental or physical energy to get out and do any training (I’ll still do it, I know it will HURT). So I thought I’d do a quick test to see what my thyroid levels were, the tiredness predates the Whole30 and blood giving so I was pretty sure they weren’t a factor.
Anyway, long story short, even though it’s taken a while to get here, I made a pretty poor show of getting blood out of my fingers on Monday, dispatched the dribble to monitor my health and expected an insufficient sample response. Nope, they emailed me on Tuesday evening with my results.
TSH 0.08 (0.27-4.2)
FT4 18.7 (12-22)
FT3 2.9 (3.1-6.8)
So, finally to the question, the absolutely DIRE T3 result. Do you reckon it’s a true result or do you reckon it’s a byproduct of the Whole30 regimen and giving blood? Have I just wasted £26.10 on a test that’s given me a snapshot of where I am on this particular day rather than where I am normally? Even MMH on their comments say this is a weird set of results.
My dilemma is, if I go to the doc, he’s not going to give credence to these results, he’ll ignore them and get me to do his tests, which will be TSH - you’re over medicated, here’s a dose reduction: or (if I’m lucky) they’d do a T4 as well and say I’m on the right dose. There’s no way they’re going to look at T3.
There’s no doc appointments available at the moment, so if I wanted to see him it would be an ‘emergency’ appointment, ring in the morning type thing, which this isn’t. Should I wait (I’ve waited this long, I can wait a bit more) until I have the June results (where I’ll have full vit/mineral testing as well and have been back eating normally for a month or so, and 2 months post giving blood), see if my T3 picks up or if this is a downward trend?
Phew, finished, I’d go back to the top and advise you to grab a cuppa before you start reading but the iPad is throwing a wobbly each time I try to go back.
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Beads
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First of all, there is no 'recommended hashi's diet'. Everyone's dietary needs are different. But, everyone needs calories and carbs to convert. How many calories a day on this diet?
Looking back at your last post, 9 months ago, I see you were already a poor converter. It seems to have got a little worse. But, your FT4 has also dropped, so not surprising your FT3 has gone down.
I don't think this has anything to do with giving blood - you should have recovered from that by now - but could have something to do with your new diet. But, the fact remains that you are a poor converter and could probably benefit enormously from the addition of some T3 to your levo.
Calories eaten (and burnt) Mon to Sunday before blood test
1690 (2242)
1920 (1673)
2050 (2144)
1881 (1950)
1556 (2271)
2148. (1939)
2005 (2305)
Not hugely low, unfortunately (depending on your point of view) they allow nuts, I should avoid them because I don’t know what moderation looks like, but sometimes I need (want) a snack that’s not yet another piece of fruit.
When I said recommended hashi’s diet I meant gluten free, avoid soy and sometimes dairy free crops up. Recommended on here, not official. Soy and dairy are a lot harder to avoid than gluten.
I’ve been eating plenty of carbohydrates, loads of fruit and I’ve been eating more potatoes (I generally only eat them once or twice a week).
I was a brilliant converter before the levo, when my TSH was above range and T4 below range my T3 was in the middle. Once my TSH dropped my conversion dropped, but if I let my TSH go up there won’t be any T4 to convert.
Edited to add my calorie burn, according to my Fitbit. So some days over, some days under, but roughly balanced.
Not massively low, no. But possibly too low for you at this moment. Starving yourself doesn't serve any useful purpose. It almost always backfires and comes back to bite you in the bum! If you're hungry, craving certain foods, it's your body trying to tell you something. Possibly nutritional deficiencies. Have you had your vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin tested?
When I said recommended hashi’s diet I meant gluten free, avoid soy and sometimes dairy free crops up. Recommended on here, not official. Soy and dairy are a lot harder to avoid than gluten.
Even that isn't strictly true. It's recommended to try gluten-free to see if it helps with symptoms. If it doesn't, then no point in persisting with it. Dairy-free is another one to try if you react badly to dairy, but not everyone has to be dairy-free.
Soy is a different matter, that is evil stuff! So, best to avoid that.
I was a brilliant converter before the levo, when my TSH was above range and T4 below range my T3 was in the middle.
No, that wasn't conversion, that was your failing thyroid trying to keep you alive by producing more T3 than usual and cutting back on the T4.
Once my TSH dropped my conversion dropped, but if I let my TSH go up there won’t be any T4 to convert.
This is true, and not recommended. But, doesn't mean to say that your poor conversion is the only factor in your poor conversion. Could be due to nutritional deficiencies. Have you tried taking selenium?
Gluten free helps, not because of any gut issues (or I didn’t notice improvement when I stopped, though stopped before the doc allowed me any levo) but because it’s an exclusion, which forces me to actually think about something before I eat it, rather than just go for another slice of cake etc. So it works for me but not necessarily in the classic sense. Dairy I’ve not really been a big fan of, except yoghurt and cheese, I’m missing cheese on this thing, but worried about its effect when I reintroduce it.Nuts are good for selenium aren’t they, if so I have no issues with that! 😆 I’ll search the internet for other good sources, see how many I normally eat.
Meat, fish, eggs, all good sources (though not as high as Brazil nuts) all still on the menu.Rice, beans and marmite (Sainsbury reduced salt yeast extract is GF) are usually foods I eat as well, both contain selenium.
But if I give it a go supplementing it’ll tell me if I need to or not. If it makes no difference then I don’t, if it does then I know I need to.
How the hell do medichecks get away with charging £101 + £30 blood draw when cere(something) only charges £69 for selenium, Zn and Mg from a finger prick test???
When were vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 last test
What vitamin supplements are you currently taking
Presumably you have Hashimoto’s?
Email Thyroid UK for list of recommend thyroid specialist endocrinologists who will prescribe T3 ...NHS and Private
tukadmin@thyroiduk.org
The aim of levothyroxine is to increase dose upwards in 25mcg steps until TSH is ALWAYS under 2
When adequately treated, TSH will often be well below one. Most important results are ALWAYS Ft3 followed by Ft4. When adequately treated Ft4 is usually in top third of range and Ft3 at least 60% through range (regardless of how low TSH is)
Extremely important to have optimal vitamin levels too as this helps reduce symptoms and improve how levothyroxine works
Before considering adding T3 you need to test vitamin levels and improve to optimal if low
Yes agree you need to retest .....in 6-8 weeks
Wait until I have the June results (where I’ll have full vit/mineral testing as well and have been back eating normally for a month or so, and 2 months post giving blood), see if my T3 picks up or if this is a downward trend?
Vitamins and minerals were last tested in December.TSH 0.16 (0.27-4.2)
T4 17.2 (12-22)
T3 3.9 (3.1-6.8)
VitD 121 (75-175)
Thriva said this was above optimal so stop supplements, I know it’s not so continued with 2 sprays of the BetterYou that I’ve been doing.
Ferritin 50 (13-150)
No comment from Thriva as it’s in range. However I know it’s low, but the other iron results were all smack bang in the middle of the range (iron, UIBC, TIBC, transferrin saturation) so I figured that because I’d given blood a month before this test that I’d depleted my ferritin stores to get my iron up to normal levels and not replenished my stores. So I continued with 1x ferrous fumarate 210mg per day. This time when I gave blood I doubled the dose for the week after, can’t remember whether I doubled the dose for the week before.
Active B12 101.0 (37.5-188)
Folate 22.6 (8.83-60.8)
Neither of these are dire, and I’m aware that there’ll possibly be some drop due to stopping B vitD for a week prior to testing. However there’s still plenty of wriggle room in both, so I upped my Ingennus B complex from 1 per day to 2 on Mon, Wed, Fri and 1 on Sat, Sun, Tues, Thurs. B vits were stopped last Tuesday for testing on Monday.
I’m also making more of an effort to stick with the routine of supplements rather than forget!
So overall not too bad, but as GreyGoose says above my conversion seems to be getting worse. I’ll check back in once I have a new set of results, trends are probably better than individual results.
That FT3 result alone is worth the cost of the test!
Don't worry too much about the "weird set of results", the endo I saw couldn't make head nor tail of my diagnostic results of over 20 year ago.
Start by taking one thing at a time
What thyroid med(s) / dose(s) are you currently taking?
Just a few thoughts...
Instead of trialling a new diet plan to try to reduce your "flab" (which, if hypo, is likely to be water retention/ "spongy" mucin) it might have been wiser to concentrate on your hormone levels. Your metabolism is very possibly struggling due to low T3 and an accumulation of mucin is a symptom.
Try pinching your skin between thumb and forefinger - the outer arm is a good test pinch point - if the skin doesn't pinch together then water logged mucin is most likely to blame. Mucin collects under the skin, adheres to it and holds water preventing the pinch.
Fat doesn't attach to the skin and gets pushed aside when you pinch....so you can pinch.
Been there and lost nearly 3 stone and many other symptoms when I raised my T3 ....
Your results show poor conversion...I have the Dio2 polymorphism/homozygous so my body had been suffering from slowly diminishing T3 levels, possibly all my life. Looking back the decline was so gradual that I didn't notice until my late 20s that something was amiss....but put it down to a busy life.
However, poor conversion is often the result of low nutrients - vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin.
You need a full thyroid evaluation....i.e the above plus TSH, FT4, FT3 and antibodies TPO an TG
Possibly the only way your medics will test FT3 is if your labs show suppressed TSH....and you have that evidence to support a request for a T3 test. I learned that from my GP.
To their shame medics are wedded to dosing by TSH - they claim, wrongly, that it is the gold standard test. The MOST important lab is FT3 not TSH.
T3 is the active thyroid hormone required by almost every cell in the body to ensure good health. A knowledgeable medic should instantly see your low FT3 result as a red flag!
Until you improve your thyroid function I'd suggest your current training level is asking too much of your body! But only you can decide what you do. I would be concerned about exacerbating the problem before it is solved.
Medics in general are pretty clueless about thyroid disease once the patient fails to adequately respond to levothyroxine mono theraphy. That approach led to me eventually being barely able to function...until I found this amazing forum which supported me and led me to research my own complicated thyroid problem which I now self medicate with T3 only.
Suggest you contact your GP ( they are still working!!) explain you have difficulty coping and are concerned your poor lab results indicate a serious thyroid problem and given that your TSH is suppressed you wish to request a full NHS thyroid evaluation, which must include FT3... if s/he is not prepared to accept your private labs.
With those labs members can see what is going on.
I'm not a medic just another member who like most of us here has had to travel a long bumpy thyroid journey in order to find the answers that medics failed to produce.
I should have warned you to make a cup of tea before reading this!!!
Ha ha, my current training level is 15 minute stints on the treadmill or turbo with the odd session on the rowing machine! I’ve 6 weeks to get further, arghhhhhh..... 😂 But I know it’s gonna hurt and I will put up with it and laugh about it after! 😄
2 friends and I cycled the Grand Union Canal tow path a couple of years ago, during that time that I knew I had hashi’s but the doc was ignoring it. It was the exact opposite weather than our blazing hot cycle to Paris the year before, it rained, it drizzled, it was cloudy and overcast and slippery underfoot (under tyre?), I came off my bike several times, once going across a bridge (on the first day of a 3 day trip) where my body and arm went on different sides of the balustrade. Susie was laughing at me (with me) the next day when I said it only hurt when I laughed or breathed and joked how silly it would be if I’d cycled to Birmingham with a broken rib. I cycled to Birmingham with a broken rib!!! But I still enjoyed it (that delayed enjoyment you get when you finish). And at least when I fell off I didn’t fall in a puddle like Ange did! 🤣What doesn’t kill you and all that!
Hey, as someone who was very physically active but gained 10kg+ with hashis and have since got back to nearly the old me (lost all weight and back to being very active) - things I have learnt:
Large deficit diets and hashis do NOT mix well when doing exercise.
You need carbs to maintain energy.
A 200 cal deficit is usually sufficient.
You are better off just increasing the exercise and monitoring what you eat (ignore what is “burnt” - it’s usually way off based on a random algorithm)
1800 is a good starting point for most women (just eat 1800 everyday, don’t eat back what you exercise).
You may need T3 if not on it already <<- this will help.
Don’t fall into the trap of feeling fantastic and making up for lost time - rest is also VERY important.
My fitness pal is great - but manually set your calories to 1800 and don’t allow exercise or steps to be added.
Large deficit diets usually don’t end well as they are restrictive - and you will probably burn yourself out. If needs be increase your NEAT by walking as well. Good luck with your triathlon!
I initially (before Hashi’s) lost 7 stone with MFP. I put back 5 lbs before knowing about the hashi’s (I thought it was Christmas weight that just wouldn’t budge), then another 15lbs during the year before the doc decided I was ill enough for the levo (I’m sure no one even looked at my second set of test results); according to my Fitbit I was burning fewer than 1600 cals a day, even with 20k steps! 5 of those lbs have gone, the rest are currently sitting around my waist. It’s the mindless eating that I’m currently trying to control, hence a diet that restricts certain foods rather than quantities.
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