Does anyone know how much Stronger Thybon Henning is than Ndt (Erfa)?

[sylus_911]

NDT &Thybon Henning

[pennyannie]

Hello Sylus

NDT is Natural Desiccated Thyroid and contains all the same known hormones as that of the human gland and made from pig thyroid dried and ground down into tablets referred to as grains.

Thybon Henning / Bennewitz are a German drug company and generally referred to on here as a source from where to purchase T3 - Liothyronine. prior to Brexit .

There is no comparison, one is no stronger than the other as they are totally different :

[sylus_911 in reply to pennyannie]

Hi, I just thought I'd ask as I was originally on NDT 90mcg,that's what ended up on after tweaking it over 3 years,I still was,nt feeling great so my Endo prescribe me t/h .30 mcg of NDT and 20 of t/h.I did wonder why it was 50mcg and not 90mcg.Since taking it I have had Anxiety,palpitations and insomnia and very shaky.I,ve been on it now for 3 weeks.When I ask the pharmacist why the endo only prescribed 50mcg he said it was stronger.I have now reduced my dose to 45mcg.I just wondered if anyone else has experienced the same thing.Thanks for your reply.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to sylus_911]

sylus_911

I was originally on NDT 90mcg

my Endo prescribe me t/h .30 mcg of NDT and 20 of t/h.I did wonder why it was 50mcg and not 90mcg.

You've got that a bit wrong.

NDT comes in grains and each grain is 60mg (milligrams not micrograms mcg).

You would have been taking 1.5 grains of Erfa, i.e. 90mg.

Each grain 60mg of Erfa contains 35mcg T4 and 8mcg of T3.

Each half grain tablet 30mg of Erfa contains 18mcg T4 and 4mcg T3.

So your 1.5 grains 90mg Erfa was giving you 53mcg T4 and 12mcg T3.

Now your new dosage of 30mg of Erfa plus 20mcg Thybon Henning T3 is giving you 18mcg T4 and 24mcg T3.

Since taking it I have had Anxiety,palpitations and insomnia and very shaky.

Thybon Henning T3 is 20mcg.

If he started you on 20mcg then that was rather foolish. T3 is a potent hormone and needs to be started low and gradually built up, the usual starting dose is 5mcg for 2 weeks, then add in another 5mcg every 2 weeks until you reach the dose, not going past the 20mcg full tablet before retesting.

I think your symptoms could possibly be caused by adding in such a large dose of T3 to start with.

When I ask the pharmacist why the endo only prescribed 50mcg he said it was stronger.I have now reduced my dose to 45mcg.

I don't think your pharmacist understands the dosing either

[sylus_911 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Hi,I really cant believe it!My Endo is suppose to be a Professor!!I had an idea I was taking to much because of the symptoms I have.Thank you so much for your help,I will take your advice and cut the dose down,hopefully I,ll start to feel a bit better.

[pennyannie in reply to sylus_911]

No thyroid hormone works well unless your core strength is strong and solid so do you have any current ferritin, folate, B12 and vitamin D levels ?

I still supplement these daily and am on NDT and in my third year and feeling much better.

I built up to 1 + 1/2 grains NDT within 6 weeks of self medicating :

It isn't a big dose by what I read of other peoples situations but you simply dose to the relief of symptoms, where ever that may be :

I don't understand why it took you so long to get to this dose, with NDT you dose to the relief of symptoms and gently over the course of weeks you increase with 1/4 grain increases until your symptoms reduce.

[sylus_911 in reply to pennyannie]

Hi,You,ve ask me what took so long regarding my NDT dose,for one I had no idea that I could self medicate I was leaving that up to the Endo to tell me what I should be taking,but then I did understand that I could self medicate. So my vitamin b12 is 285(120-625).My ferritin is 97(11-307) that's dropped down again it was originally was 167 (11-307) after an iron infusion. Folate 8.4ug/l.

Blood test was done in March.

[pennyannie in reply to sylus_911]

I have to confess after I replied to you I looked back at your journey.

It just seems just a shame that this medic didn't seem to have much idea.

I remember spending over 2 years building up my core strength vitamins and minerals before I started NDT and still need to maintain these at optimal levels with daily supplementation.

There is no quick fix and then there needs to be maintenance and it can be troubling keep all these balls in the air, but have to say that I'm so much better it's all worth it.

[sylus_911 in reply to pennyannie]

Hi again,in 2011 I had a thyroidectomy I was fine for 4 years could,nt have felt better,i was on 100mcg of thyroxine but then I became really unwell,my Endo at the time would,nt change my dose,I'd lost nearly 2 stone in weight and was clearly hyper.Not once did anyone check my vitamin levels and at that time my ferritin level was 17!!.Even with the Endo I have now ,not once has he asked about vitamins apart from vit D.I took printed copies of vitamin levels to my Doctor trying to explain the importance of vitamins ,more so ferritin, and he did,nt like it.I paid to get all my blood test going back to 2015 and its interesting,and shocking.Even now I cant understand why I can have weeks of feeling quite well, then I go down again,theres been days when I felt I cant do this anymore.,then I get told or suggested that I could be depressed. Thank you for your replies.

[pennyannie in reply to sylus_911]

My journey has also been difficult as we grow up trusting the medical profession :

I was so ill and listening to my doctor referring to me as a conundrum and offering me anti depressants was the last straw and when I decided I needed to stay away and help myself as the stress of fighting for anything other than T4 - Levothyroxine was killing me,

I too do not have a fully functioning working thyroid as I was given RAI thyroid ablation for Graves Disease in 2005 and " nuked " :

I am now so disillusioned, disappointed and cynical and know that's not healthy either so I need to find a balance and not feel so isolated in my opinion of the NHS.

[m7-cola in reply to SeasideSusie]

Very clear explanation of the quantities in the respective products. What a pity medics and pharmacists know so little.

[sylus_911 in reply to m7-cola]

I just find it all so frustrating as I'm sure a lot of other people do.My daughters been a great help in helping me try to understand it all even after all this time,and of course Healthunlocked.Well,all the best to you,thanks.

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

As pennyannie says, not possible to compare as one is purely T3 and the other is a combination of T4 and T3.