Hi, looking for advice,

[lesel]

Hi, looking for advice, these are my bt results: march 2021: TSH 0.21, free T3 5.23, free thyroxine 16.6 antibodies Thyroglobulin 425 Peroxidase >600

I have shortness of breath and chest pain on exertion and have difficulty sleeping

Guess I need to reduce Levo to around 75 from 100 which I was on 12 months ago when GP increased?

My antibodies were tested in october 2017 and were Thyroglobulin 551 Peroxidase 600 - I went on a gluten free diet for just under 4 months and my Thyroglobulin went UP to 660 Peroxidase didn't change (end Jan 2018)

Whilst I feel able to look after my thyroxine TSH T3 etc I am now struggling to deal with the antibodies, I take wellwoman 50 plus which appears to include all the vits and mins needed and also take Vit k2. Would pro or pre biotics help?

Many thanks for reading

Lesley B

[jimh111]

Your thyroid hormone levels look OK unless you feel better on a lower dose. Have you had your iron levels checked?

[lesel in reply to jimh111]

Thanks no I have not had iron checked but take in my well woman supplement. medichecks said my tsh was a bit low, my t3 etc I am usually feeling better with it towards "low normal" I tend to get symptoms if it is nearer middling.

[greygoose]

Antibodies fluctuate all the time, so it doesn't mean anything. And there's no proof that a gluten-free diet really does reduce them. So, if gluten-free doesn't make you feel better, there's not much point.

Multi-vits really aren't the best way to go about redressing your nutrients, for all sorts of reasons - and the one you're taking is rather a bad one:

* If your multi contains iron, it will block the absorption of all the vitamins - you won't absorb a single one! Iron should be taken at least two hours away from any other supplement except vit C, which is necessary to aid absorption of iron, and protect the stomach.

* If your multi also contains calcium, the iron and calcium will bind together and you won't be able to absorb either of them.

* Multi's often contain things you shouldn't take or don't need : calcium, iodine, copper. These things should be tested before supplementing.

* Multi's often contain the cheapest, least absorbable form of the supplement : magnesium oxide, instead of magnesium citrate or one of the other good forms; cyanocobalamin instead of methylcobalamin; folic acid instead of methylfolate; etc. etc. etc. This is especially true of supermarket multis.

* Multi's do not contain enough of anything to help a true deficiency, even if you could absorb them.

* When taking several supplements, you should start them individually at two weekly intervals, not all at once as you would with a multi. Because, if you start them all at once, and something doesn't agree with you, you won't know which one it is and you'll be back to square one.

* Most supplements should be taken at least two hours away from thyroid hormone, but some - iron, vit D, magnesium and calcium (should you really need to take it) should be taken at least four hours away from thyroid hormone.

* The magnesium you take - and just about everybody needs to take it - should be chosen according to what you want it to do:

Magnesium citrate: mild laxative, best for constipation.

Magnesium taurate: best for cardiovascular health.

Magnesium malate: best for fatigue – helps make ATP energy.

Magnesium glycinate: most bioavailable and absorbable form, non-laxative.

Magnesium chloride: for detoxing the cells and tissues, aids kidney function and can boost a sluggish metabolism.

Magnesium carbonate: good for people suffering with indigestion and acid reflux as it contains antacid properties.

Worst forms of magnesium: oxide, sulphate, glutamate and aspartate.

With a multivitamin, you are just throwing your money down the drain, at best, and doing actual harm at worst. Far better to get tested for vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin, and build up your supplementation program based on the results. A vitamin or a mineral is only going to help you if you need it, anyway. More of something you don’t need is not better, it's either pointless or even dangerous, as with iodine, calcium, iron or vit D.

[lesel in reply to greygoose]

Thanks, that is so helpful, I have been tested for vit d and used to take separately in liquid form, was prescribed 2drops reducing to 1 in the summer. I will stop taking multi and return to vit d drops plus selenium (this I was told to take by my sisters cancer consultant, he said everyone should take this supplement) thanks for info on magnesium I will look at this too.

[greygoose in reply to lesel]

Yes, but you do need to take magnesium if you're taking vit D, the two work together. You also need to take vit K2-MK7 because taking vit D increases the absorption of calcium from food, and the K2 makes sure it goes into the bones and teeth, and doesn't build up in the arteries.

[lesel in reply to greygoose]

Understood, and I take k2-mk7 already and will get some magnesium taurate which I think I have taken in the past.Looking at other comments received I think the opinion is that I just have to live with the antibodies, doing as much as I can to reduce them with a healthy diet.

[greygoose in reply to lesel]

Antibodies have nothing to do with your diet. And, they're not doing you any harm, anyway. They just come along to clean up the blood after an attack on the thyroid. It's probably not even desirable to reduce them. Just forget them, I would.

[tattybogle]

Are fT4 /3 actually over range ?

If you feel you want to try a reduction , i'd first try reducing by 12.5mcg rather than 25mcg , since 75 was not enough last time. I've found smaller reductions than 25mcg can have significant effect.

As for the multivit's it's better to test first and just take what's needed separately if anything is low . SeasideSusie has given lots of full replies on the subject of vitamins /minerals, if you click on her name you'll find them under 'replies'.

I think selenium is sometimes said to help in reducing antibodies you can seaarch post's on here for selenium/antibodies... but personally i'm not convinced there is anything we can do about our levels antibodies . Mine have gone down significantly over the years without me doing anything to try and reduce them , so i do wonder sometimes when people say "i did so and so and they've reduced" , if they wouldn't have reduced anyway.

[lesel in reply to tattybogle]

Thanks, yes I think my t3 is too high for me, took me ages to convince gp to redu e to 75 several years ago but he then increased to 100 again last year as my bloods looked too low.I have taken note of comments Re multivits and will go back to taking just vit D, K2, (I take k2to stop bruising easily) selenium and magnesium - once I work out which magnesium is best for me!

[tattybogle in reply to lesel]

just goes to show no all Gp's are the same ... usually it's the opposite problem of refusing t try an increase when you ask and insisting on reducing when you didn't :)Re multivits:-

Have you seen this post healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

also i think greygoose just said somewhere that as well as ? reducing antibodies , selenium may ? increase T4 to T3 conversion , so worth bearing in mind to see if you think it affects your T3 level .

[jimh111]

Try skipping your levo for two days and then reverting to 75 mcg (you can split the tablets). This will get you closer to a 75 mcg daily dose as we store around 10 days worth of T4 in the blood. That way you will be able to see if it makes a difference, otherwise it will take several weeks to adjust to 75 and it will be difficult to know if anything has changed.

I'd ask your GP to check your iron levels as iron is needed in the blood to carry oxygen around and so anaemia is a common cause of breathlessness on exertion.

[lesel in reply to jimh111]

👍Thank you

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Essential to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12

Low iron/ferritin causes breathlessness

Suggest you test vitamin levels.....ideally before reducing dose

Have you had cholesterol levels tested.

High cholesterol suggests under medicated on thyroid

[lesel in reply to SlowDragon]

Cholesterol is good, I have had a problem with chest pain, breathlessness before and reducing levo solved this problem plus insomnia. Up until six months ago I took separate supplements vit d, selenium, magnesium taurate I swapped to a multi but grey goose has suggested going back to separate supplements which I will do and include vit k2. I was most concerned Re thyroid antibodies being so high but again grey goose has said not a concern.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to lesel]

Personally I very slowly reduced TPO antibodies on absolutely strictly gluten free diet and I find TG antibodies reduce as TSH drops lower (below bottom of range )

Some people find dairy free is helpful