Looking for advice! : Hi. I was looking for some... - Thyroid UK

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Looking for advice!

Julesforbes profile image
17 Replies

Hi. I was looking for some advice if possible? I have recently done an advanced Thyroid test through Thriva. Most results are normal or optimal but Thyroglobulin antibodies (TgAB) came back as ‘out of range’ high at 505.3 kU/L and Thyroid peroxidase antibodies (TPOAb) came back as high 44.7klU/L. My GP seems unconcerned about these results but has said she’ll do a thyroid hormone blood test again in a year. I have symptoms that are within the remit of thyroid issues. Should I be looking to find out why these results are high? Having done some reading I am under the impression that it could mean that the thyroid is being attacked. I’d rather not wait until I’ve got a true thyroid problem - should I be doing something now? Many thanks

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SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

High thyroid antibodies confirms autoimmune thyroid disease also called Hashimoto’s

What were TSH, Ft4 and Ft3 results

Was test done as early as possible in morning before eating or drinking anything other than water

Did you get vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 tested too

Please add actual results and ranges

Julesforbes profile image
Julesforbes in reply to SlowDragon

Hi yes the test was done first thing after 12 hrs fasting and two pints of water. Active B12 was 49 pmol/L - normal (range 37.5 - 188)

Ferritin was 49 ug/L - optimal (range 44 - 150)

Folate was 13.1 nmol/L - normal (range 8.83 - 30)

Triiodothyronine (FT3) was 5.3 pmol/L (range 3.1 - 6.8)

TSH was 1.59 -optimal (range only shown as 4.2?)

Thyroglobulin antibodies 505.3 kU/L - out of range high (range normal 0-115 scale shown to 300 so this result was off the end of the scale)

Thyroid peroxidase antibodies 44.7klU/L - high (range 0-34 shown as normal - scale shown to 200)

Thyroxine T4 91 nmol/L - normal (range 66-181)

Free Thyroxine (FT4) 14.8 pmol/L - optimal (range only shown as 22?) and

Vitamin D 63 nmol/L - sufficient (range shown as 120 -175 but as result says sufficient I imagine that range is optimal?)

I hope that makes sense? Thank you so much for your help. 🙂

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Julesforbes

So first step is to improve very low vitamin levels

Active B12 was 49 pmol/L - normal (range 37.5 - 188)

Ferritin was 49 ug/L - optimal (range 44 - 150)

Folate was 13.1 nmol/L - normal (range 8.83 - 30)

Vitamin D 63 nmol/L

Optimal vitamin levels are

Vitamin D at least around 80nmol and around 100nmol maybe better

Active B12 at least over 70

Folate and ferritin at least half way through range

Active B12 below 70 requires futher investigation

Low B12, combined with high TG antibodies means you could have pernicious anaemia as well as autoimmune thyroid disease

They often go together

But Low B12 can just be due to autoimmune thyroid disease

Ask/insist that GP do full testing for PA ......BEFORE Considering starting any B vitamin supplements

viapath.co.uk/our-tests/act...

>70*; * between 25-70 referred for MMA

healthline.com/health/antit...

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Julesforbes

What vitamin supplements are you currently taking, if any?

Vitamin D

GP will often only prescribe to bring levels to 50nmol.

Some areas will prescribe to bring levels to 75nmol or even 80nmol

leedsformulary.nhs.uk/docs/...

GP should advise on self supplementing if over 50nmol, but under 75nmol (but they rarely do)

mm.wirral.nhs.uk/document_u...

NHS Guidelines on dose vitamin D required

ouh.nhs.uk/osteoporosis/use...

But with Hashimoto’s, improving to around 80nmol or 100nmol by self supplementing may be better

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/218...

vitamindsociety.org/pdf/Vit...

Once you Improve level, very likely you will need on going maintenance dose to keep it there.

Test twice yearly via vitamindtest.org.uk

Vitamin D mouth spray by Better You is very effective as it avoids poor gut function. There’s a version made that also contains vitamin K2 Mk7

amazon.co.uk/BetterYou-Dlux...

It’s trial and error what dose we need, with hashimoto’s we frequently need higher dose than average

Calculator for working out dose you may need to bring level to 40ng/ml = 100nmol

grassrootshealth.net/projec...

Government recommends everyone supplement October to April

gov.uk/government/news/phe-...

Taking too much vitamin D is not a good idea

chriskresser.com/vitamin-d-...

Web links about taking important cofactors - magnesium and Vit K2-MK7

Magnesium best taken in the afternoon or evening, but must be four hours away from levothyroxine

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

medicalnewstoday.com/articl...

livescience.com/61866-magne...

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

Vitamin K2 mk7

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

2 good videos on magnesium

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Vitamin D and Covid

vitamind4all.org/letter.pdf

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Julesforbes

Ferritin range is 15-150

Aiming to improve to at least around half way through range

Are you vegetarian or vegan

Heavy periods are classic sign of being hypothyroid and will lead to low iron and ferritin ask for full iron panel testing for Anaemia

Look at increasing iron rich foods in diet

Eating iron rich foods like liver or liver pate once a week plus other red meat, pumpkin seeds and dark chocolate, plus daily orange juice or other vitamin C rich drink can help improve iron absorption

List of iron rich foods

dailyiron.net

Links about iron and ferritin

irondisorders.org/too-littl...

davidg170.sg-host.com/wp-co...

Great in-depth article on low ferritin

oatext.com/iron-deficiency-...

drhedberg.com/ferritin-hypo...

This is interesting because I have noticed that many patients with Hashimoto’s disease and hypothyroidism, start to feel worse when their ferritin drops below 80 and usually there is hair loss when it drops below 50.

Thyroid disease is as much about optimising vitamins as thyroid hormones

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

restartmed.com/hypothyroidi...

Post discussing just how long it can take to raise low ferritin

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Never supplement iron without doing full iron panel test for anaemia first

Post discussing why important to do full iron panel test

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Julesforbes profile image
Julesforbes in reply to SlowDragon

Thank you so much. I’ll have a good read of all of that. I really appreciate your help so far. ☺️

Heloise profile image
Heloise

I agree with you, Jules. Of course one testing is only a snapshot and your doctor would like to see what the trend looks like. Are you trending up or down. This would take another test down the road. They may feel it is not severe enough or may resolve if it's due to a virus but I have no idea about that. BUT when antibodies are high there is definitely a cause and that is usually due to what you are ingesting or another hormone interference. Gluten or dairy are similar in causing immune reactions and I've read that estrogen metabolites are also a problem if your system has slowed down in detoxing waste and we know that constipation comes along with a slow metabolism. Was your FT3 optimal in the higher part of the range?

Julesforbes profile image
Julesforbes in reply to Heloise

Hi Heloise. This is the first test I’ve done as my Chiropractor recommended I did one. I know my body prefers it when I don’t stuff it full of gluten - which is a shame! 🤣 I am also peri-menopausal if that affects things. My FT3 was 5.3 pmol/L (shown as normal in a scale of 3.1 -6.8) so in the upper half of the scale. Thank you for your help.

Heloise profile image
Heloise in reply to Julesforbes

Stay with that chiropractor. I wish my FT3 were that high:) It is worth it for you to limit carbs if you can. Not entirely. Give it a try and take enzymes with meals. Do you have symptoms? I've watched many lectures with functional doctor and videos on you tube and at this age you need to pay more attention to health. Aging starts early and the decline of stem cells, enzymes, growth hormone let you know eventually. I think it is safe to supplement with proteolytic enzymes. If I could afford stem cells, I'd like a bunch!Try to focus on nutritious food. I get my juicer out from time to time. These things have made a difference. Make sure you are never constipated and lots of magnesium will help with that. We don't realize that recirculating toxins are hugely dangerous.

Best wishes!

Julesforbes profile image
Julesforbes in reply to Heloise

Ok there’s some great tips there thank you. I’ll re- read it all again before I do my shop this week and plan around that more. I think doing another test after a few weeks may well be useful. I will keep that Chiropractor - she was also the one who pressed Rheumatology for another issue I have! Dear Lord I would like a tight moaning Minnie! Thank you so much for your help. ☺️

Heloise profile image
Heloise in reply to Julesforbes

/drmariza.com/the-best-suppl... learning! There is very good information coming from doctors who actually look at the research. I like the above article. I get them from a variety of people so I can see the uniformity. I also know of good suppliers of supplements that actually work. Just pm me if you would like. This is beatable.

Julesforbes profile image
Julesforbes in reply to Heloise

Thank you so much. I love your positivity. ☺️

Heloise profile image
Heloise in reply to Julesforbes

🤗

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Julesforbes

I know my body prefers it when I don’t stuff it full of gluten

Your high antibodies confirms Hashimoto’s

Hashimoto's affects the gut and leads to low stomach acid and then low vitamin levels

Low vitamin levels affect Thyroid hormone working

Poor gut function with Hashimoto’s can lead leaky gut (literally holes in gut wall) this can cause food intolerances. Most common by far is gluten. Dairy is second most common.

According to Izabella Wentz the Thyroid Pharmacist approx 5% with Hashimoto's are coeliac, but over 80% find gluten free diet helps, sometimes significantly. Either due to direct gluten intolerance (no test available) or due to leaky gut and gluten causing molecular mimicry (see Amy Myers link)

Changing to a strictly gluten free diet may help reduce symptoms, help gut heal and slowly lower TPO antibodies

While still eating high gluten diet ask GP for coeliac blood test first or buy test online for under £20, just to rule it out first

healthcheckshop.co.uk/store...?

Assuming test is negative you can immediately go on strictly gluten free diet

(If test is positive you will need to remain on high gluten diet until endoscopy, maximum 6 weeks wait officially)

Trying gluten free diet for 3-6 months. If no noticeable improvement then reintroduce gluten and see if symptoms get worse

chriskresser.com/the-gluten...

amymyersmd.com/2018/04/3-re...

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

drknews.com/changing-your-d...

restartmed.com/hashimotos-g...

Non Coeliac Gluten sensitivity (NCGS) and autoimmune disease

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/296...

The predominance of Hashimoto thyroiditis represents an interesting finding, since it has been indirectly confirmed by an Italian study, showing that autoimmune thyroid disease is a risk factor for the evolution towards NCGS in a group of patients with minimal duodenal inflammation. On these bases, an autoimmune stigma in NCGS is strongly supported

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/300...

The obtained results suggest that the gluten-free diet may bring clinical benefits to women with autoimmune thyroid disease

nuclmed.gr/wp/wp-content/up...

In summary, whereas it is not yet clear whether a gluten free diet can prevent autoimmune diseases, it is worth mentioning that HT patients with or without CD benefit from a diet low in gluten as far as the progression and the potential disease complications are concerned

restartmed.com/hashimotos-g...

Despite the fact that 5-10% of patients have Celiac disease, in my experience and in the experience of many other physicians, at least 80% + of patients with Hashimoto's who go gluten-free notice a reduction in their symptoms almost immediately.

Julesforbes profile image
Julesforbes in reply to SlowDragon

Hi. Thank you again. I actually went pretty much gluten free last year when followed Michael Moseley’s Fast 800 plan. I actually felt amazing, so I’m putting myself back on that style of eating now as I have slipped back into old habits. I absolutely love both bread and dairy so it’s really hard but now I’ve even more reason to address the situation as I didn’t previously know I had a Thyroid issue. So to be clear, do the raised antibodies confirm unequivocally that I have Hashimoto now? The GP just seemed to think it made me more likely to get Thyroid disease in the future, but without being disrespectful, she was a bit vague. Thank you. I’m going to spend today reading the links and getting my head around the information. ☺️

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Julesforbes

Autoimmune thyroid disease is either caused by, or causes leaky gut

The antibodies are not the attackers, but the hoovers cleaning up after attacks on thyroid

As we become more hypothyroid as thyroid is increasingly attacked one of first results is reduced stomach acid and this leads to poor nutrient absorption

Improving low vitamin levels, working on improving gut health .....eg probiotics, fermented foods like kefir, kimchi, sauerkraut etc

Reading

Isabella Wentz is good place to start - The Thyroid pharmacist. Huge website

Your Ft4 level at 14 (12-22) is starting to drop. Suggests thyroid is beginning to struggle

The body will always push to maintain Ft3 levels as long as possible. Ft3 is the active hormone

Good film explains interconnections

drbradshook.com/understandi...

Julesforbes profile image
Julesforbes in reply to SlowDragon

That’s fantastic- I really can’t thank you more. ☺️

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