I've recently been to A and E for palpitations and they have found no issue with my heart. This is the second time this has happened this year. These always come with the usual symptoms below that occur in the run up and aftermath. Usually I dose up on vitamins and it eventually seems to go away (no idea if thats just pure luck or actually i did something right). It can then be gone for about 2-3 months before coming back again (perhaps i got lax with taking my vitamins daily):
I've been to NHS GPs, Private doctors and they all seem to focus on the heart palpitations rather than the actual cause of the palpitations. I've had at least 5 ECGs this year and all have come back with no heart issues. I've also been for thyroid blood tests at least 5 times in the last two years and every time my THS has been at about 6.5 but normal T3 and T4 levels.
I've been looking into it as i feel they (doctors) are ignoring my main symptoms that I've been getting for years. I realised my lack of iodine in my diet could have caused this. I gave up milk a few years ago as this started to cause me upset stomach as well as bad acid reflux. I don't eat much fish or seaweed etc. so its very rare I will have enough iodine per day. I now take a supplement which is about 150mcg as part of multivitamins, but I suspect that this is only enough to sustain my current levels and not increase my iodine levels.
I'm just kind of looking for any similar experiences from the community and if the consensus is that this could be Subclinical Hypothyroidism. Most of the research I have done points to this being a big possibility.
Many thanks
Steven
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Steven360
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It’s always best to test for iodine before taking it. And if you do have a thyroid problem, taking iodine can make it worse. Ah, just spotted the TSH of 6.5. Nope, that’s not normal. What were your FT3 and FT4 results?
You know.... given your symptoms, I’d be suspecting Vit B12 or folate deficiency (or both). Which may be in addition to a thyroid problem (or not). Have they been tested?
Thanks for replying. The Free T4 was 14.5 and Free T3 was 4.5 so both within the normal ranges. I never got a B12 out folate test as I did this one privately and targeted the Thyriod tests due to the symptoms. I’ve had b12 and folate before on NHS and these were normal, although a year or so ago, but I still had similar symptoms to now.
I will look at booking a blood test again soon to check b12 and folate as these are definitely similar symptoms.
It’s so hard to self diagnose as it could be a number of things, but over the years the high TSH has always been the stand out result in my blood tests. Doctor said that it’s probably the level my thyroid operates at, but I’m just not buying that it’s not causing my issues
in reply to
Iodine is used to treat hyperthyroidism so it may potentially make you even more hypo. As Jazzw says, beat to test before supplementing that one!
Never accept 'Normal' as a result. Ferritin, folate, vit D, and B12 as hugely important in thyroid health and you need those levels to be optimal. Drs generally say if you're In Range then you're fine and couldn't possibly be symptomatic. 🙄
You're legally entitled to copies of all your blood test results. I'd suggest going to get them from your surgery and having a look over them. I was told my results were 'normal' for years but I can see that my TSH was steadily rising whole my T4 and T3 were steadily falling.
RADIOACTIVE IODINE is used to treat hyperthyroidism, naturally occurring iodine is what fuels our thyroids and was vilified by Wolff & Chaikoff during research in 1948, when they misinterpreted their results of treating mice with iodine. This has resulted in doctors thinking Lugol's iodine is a bad thing and people developing goitres from iodine deficiency.
Read Dr Guy Abrams on the subject, he trained Dr David Brownstein who has a thyroid website: power2practice.com/wp-conte...
Iodine was not vilified. The summary of their 1948 paper:
1. Rats were injected with 10, 50, 100, 200, and 500 γ of iodine in the form of KI labeled with I131. The radioactivity served as a measure of the amounts of injected I127 that entered the gland.
2. So long as plasma iodine remained above 20 to 35 γ per cent, organic binding of the injected iodide in the gland was blocked. Organic binding of the newly accumulated iodine began to occur only when the level of plasma iodine fell below the critical range of 20 to 35 γ per cent.
3. A homeostatic mechanism is postulated in which excessively high levels of plasma iodine inhibit formation of the hormone in the thyroid gland. This mechanism helps to explain the beneficial effect produced in patients suffering from thyrotoxicosis (Graves' disease) when large amounts of iodine are administered.
4. While the organic binding of iodine is blocked, the gland is still able to concentrate iodine. The results presented here thus establish the normal thyroid gland possesses a mechanism for concentrating iodine that does not depend upon its conversion to thyroxine and diiodotyrosine.
Wolff J, Chaikoff IL 1948 Plasma inorganic iodide as a homeostatic regulator of thyroid function. J Biol Chem 174:555–564
It is universally recognised that iodine is a vital nutrient required at the very least by every creature with a thyroid in order to produce thyroid hormones.
What is questioned by many since is the impact of iodine on people. Especially in large doses.
Of course, with much research since 1948, this extract of the summary should NOT be taken as describing the current best understanding of the effects of high dose iodine.
Most of my research has pointed to a lack of iodine causing subclinical Hypothyroidism/ Hypothyroidism. I discarded Hyperthyroidism as my TSH levels are higher than normal, not lower and I don't have any of those symptoms. I relate my symptoms more to Hypo as I cover about 9 of the symptoms.
Yes, I won't accept my results as normal, I believe they are causing an issue whether it is this or B12 deficiency ect, its just an expensive process trying to find out what's causing it. I'm going to book a thyroid function blood test as well as B12, ferritin ect just to make sure I'm not missing anything.
Ive got access to my past blood tests via the GP portal and also my private tests i have them all in an email so i can check back to my historical tests. All of these have my TSH above 6 and my T4 and T3 are normal.
Don't think I've not been tested for Thyroid antibodies, but also worth asking my GP about that on the next visit.
In the days when there were no good treatments for hyperthyroidism doctors prescribed iodine. Give the patient enough, and the thyroid shuts down or reduces its activity. In other words, the person with an overactive thyroid is likely to tend to become more hypothyroid.
This is why people who are hypothyroid shouldn't take iodine unless they've been tested and found to be deficient. Iodine deficiency will cause hypothyroidism. But if you already have ample iodine then taking more could actually make you hypothyroid.
Something to be aware of is that iodine testing is often "a bit dodgy". There are sites on the web touting the "iodine patch test" which is absolutely useless. See this article by helvella :
I think that the best tests are non-loading blood or urine tests - but I have no proof and wouldn't know which to use myself.
One thing to bear in mind if you are iodine deficient is that it is often accompanied by selenium deficiency. Selenium is very important to people with thyroid disease, just like iodine is, and deficiencies should be fixed if found.
oh actually, looking at my blood test results, i can see my B12 is 695, in the normal range and serum folate is 15.3, but doesnt show ref range (it isnt highlighted so i presume its ok). Only one that stands out as well is Calcium (adjusted) which is 2.14 mmol/L so just below the reference of 2.20
potentially, two months ago my blood test had my Vit D at 50.30 nmol/L which is "normal" but on the low end, it could easily have slipped below that in the last few months. I will definitely be checking that again on my next tests
There are also co-factors required when supplementing vitamin D, and these are vitamin K2 and magnesium. Do a search on the forum for references to these. SeasideSusie has written many replies on this. You can see her replies here :
Weirdly I think I’ve accidentally created two accounts. One I had previously via logging into my mobile and the new one I created on my laptop to type out my massive post 😂
Hi. Although you haven’t posted lab references , if in UK those results show you are hypothyroid. TSH should be around 0.2 ish, FT3 around 6 and FT4 around 17 +. You need to test for thyroid antibodies to see if you have autoimmune thyroiditis. And you will probably have to do all that privately. Try Medichecks.
No, some of my tests were done in the afternoon and all came back with similar high TSH. I think i need to get a check for Thyroid antibodies just to make sure. It will definitely be private, ive been going around in circles with NHS for years, so ive taken this route in the past two years to try to get to grips with my symptoms.
hi, yes ive seen it. Its a lot to go on and all very helpful. Most of my private health tests have been early morning, i think one was around 11am, but i dont think id eaten breakfast at that point anyway. The other ones i did on NHS i think were afternoon as i remember worrying if i would get out early enough to pick up the little one, so I had definitely eaten at that point
Here is a graph of the % of the healthy population who have TSH at various levels, you will see that 1 ish is the most common value, in people not taking any thyroid hormone.healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
And that 6 is extremely unusual !
"if in UK those results show you are hypothyroid. TSH should be around 0.2 ish,"
this is not quite correct .
In UK under current NHS guidelines;
TSH 6 ( i'm assuming this is over ref range) with fT4 within reference range, would indicate Sub-clinical hypothyroidism. (if 2 similar results over 3 months apart)
If TPOab (Thyroid Peroxidase antibodies) were checked and found to be over range then this would indicate a higher chance that eventually Steven360 would become actually hypothyroid which is classified as TSH over range with fT4 below range.
Steven360
I was diagnosed by NHS and started on Levothyroxine with result not much worse than yours,
However , there was a clear trend of TSH rising from 5.7 [0.036-4.1] to 6.8 over 6 weeks
(with in range TotalT4 94 [65-155] falling to 91.)
The factor that made the doctors mind up to treat was TPOab 2499[0-50]
I felt absolutely terrible and had done for about 3 years, following birth of 2nd child.
hmm my TSH hasnt really risen to be fair, its generally been around 6 for at least a year and a bit, which is probably why the doctor just said that it could just be the normal range my body operates (which isnt the stance to take).
I think i am probably a couple more visits and needles away from being prescribed Levothyroxine, hopefully it won't come to that and it can be controlled by getting my levels back to normal
if in UK those results show you are hypothyroid. TSH should be around 0.2 ish, FT3 around 6 and FT4 around 17 +.
That's very misleading.
As reference ranges vary from lab to lab (due to different machines, how they're calibrated and local population, upon which the ranges are based), you can't possibly say where FT4 and FT3 should be. The hospital lab which does my surgery's thyroid tests have a range of 7-17 for FT4 which makes complete nonsense of your "FT4 around 17+" as that would be over range in my area.
For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested. Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12
Low vitamin levels are extremely common, especially if you have autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's) diagnosed by raised Thyroid antibodies
About 90% of primary hypothyroidism is autoimmune thyroid disease
Ask GP to test vitamin levels and thyroid antibodies
Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .
This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)
Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or thyroid antibodies or all relevant vitamins
Thank you for that, a lot of very informative information and advice.
I did have very low ferritin levels a couple of years ago, which was solved by taking tablets for a couple of months which returned to normal, my last test (two months ago) showed my Ferritin levels were 38ug/L which is still normal (if not on the low end), but worth looking at again considering it was a problem in the past.
I dug deeper into my test results and found the below;
folate was 15.3 ng/mL
B12 was 695 ng/L
OH Vitamin D 50.30 nmol/L (on the low end so could end up being Insufficient)
So these appear to be in the normal range, although Vit D is worth looking at again.
Most of my private ones were done early morning, only the NHS ones I think were randomly assigned and some in the afternoon.
thanks for the links, i will look at them and see what i can book in.
great thank you, I guess as it wasn't highlighted in red on my results I didn't really take notice of it until it was mentioned earlier. But these links are a real help and I'm going to do more reading (supposed to be working, but can't stop researching and trying to find an answer)
Eating iron rich foods like liver or liver pate once a week plus other red meat, pumpkin seeds and dark chocolate, plus daily orange juice or other vitamin C rich drink can help improve iron absorption
This is interesting because I have noticed that many patients with Hashimoto’s disease and hypothyroidism, start to feel worse when their ferritin drops below 80 and usually there is hair loss when it drops below 50.
Thyroid disease is as much about optimising vitamins as thyroid hormones
I can’t actually see where you state your tsh..? The following is really useful to show docs. My diagnosis was SCH - it’s taking me an age to get right but I am still so grateful I started on meds when I did.
I did post it in my original message, although like a plonker i called it THS. But it is 6.5 which is higher than the normal range with T4 and T3 in the normal range. The past few years my test results for this have been similar.
Glad you got yours sorted, nothing worse than not knowing what it causing all these issues, especially the palpitations which is worrying
Hi Steven. I’m new here, so can’t give advice, but can share my experience which sounds a bit like yours. Never known to have an issue before Feb. Went to doctor with palpitations - ectopic, typically occurring at rest when heart rate very low (c 45- 50 bpm). I am not a picture of health so this is very low! Tests confirmed Tsh of 6 and free T4 that was low but in range. Once I started looking into symptoms of hypothyroidism, felt that it described me so well!
Since then all tests on heart are ok, but bloods still showing similar levels. Dr seems convinced my palpitations issue is down to thyroid.
Yesterday TSH up to 7.5 with free T4 at 11 so as consistent issue, is going to start me on a low dose of levothyroxine and do more blood work including antibody test.
So from my experience, it could be that the two things are very linked.
Hi, thanks for this, its a reassuring, especially with the ectopic beat as I hadn't heard anyone else has had that issue too. I notice it mostly at rest as well and as I've been at my desk this morning I've noticed 2 so far so that has been the most worrying symptom of all this.
I suspect that as long as my TSH and T4 stay at the same levels, the GP will be a bit reluctant to prescribe me Levothyroxine as its my "normal" level, but I'm going to be more pushy this time around as i don't think i can just accept that response. I will be going for more blood tests shortly on private and hopefully they will shed a bit more light onto the matter.
Quite a few of the symptoms you list sound like they might be due to iron deficiency. But that is quite rare in men so your doctor may be reluctant to test you. It is possible to get an iron panel done privately with a finger-prick test :
Please note that doctors will often just test ferritin (iron stores), but serum iron is important too which is why an iron panel is useful, rather than having just a ferritin test.
I have been iron deficient in the past and was on tablets to correct this. At that time my TSH was still around 6, so not sure why they didn't want to pursue this a bit further given the iron issue and links.
I think if i went back and said I feel like i am iron deficient again I should be able to get a test given its in my history and not unlikely that I have it. But i have already looked at private tests, so all the tests i need from the response by SlowDragon, will cost me around £300 plus, which is fine, but probably at the wrong time of year. Although best to keep pursuing it as I need to get this sorted.
I think you should list the tests you think you need, and ask people how best to get them all done at the cheapest price. There may be options you don't know about or haven't heard of.
yeah, this one was with Nuffield health, but I got some links and it seems to be cheaper via post for various providers.
These are the recommended to check everything relating to thyroid issues and potential deficiencies
"For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested. Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12"
This was the response from my usual provider:
Thyroid Profile - £88.00 (TSH, FT3, FT4)
Thyroid Antibodies(Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies) and Anti Thyroglobulin Antibodies
- £88.00
Vitamin D (25 Hydroxy/ 25OH) - £67.00
B12 and Serum Folate - £51.00
Ferritin - £51.00
Total = £345.00 (+ £25 for referral, if required, see below)
Hi, All advice here is good, I will add hypothyroidism causes malabsorption of nutrients vitamins and minerals taking supplementation is essential as well as good diet of fresh healthy food and water.
Plenty of water excluding tea coffee etc .
You might need HCL with Betaine; take with meals. Increase by one tablet then another and so on until you feel a warmth in your stomach at this point reduce the tabs one at a time over a long period. Each time you feel that warmth reduce again. This should resolve to gastric reflux and help absorption too.
Magnesium is a vital mineral often depleted in West due to farming methods. Take at night NOT with calcium. Magnesium Citrate is a good generic magnesium. Magnesium is calming on the body and vital to heart, brain and adrenal glands and much much more. If one tab at night isn’t adequate take morning and night.
CoEnzyme Q10 is absolutely vital to the heart and other muscle cells. The heart muscles cells have higher number of mitochondria for obvious reasons and therefore it uses more coQ10. Take one or two gel caps daily or bd.
If you have symptoms take a pint or two of water (can be due to dehydration.).
If you have slow thready pulse you may need Vitamin E. take one alternate or every 2 days, increase or reduce according to need. Vitamin E is fat solvable version of Vitamin C as an antioxidant. Take C as well. PLEASE NOTE vitamin E has slight anticoagulant effect. Therefore, take 1-3weeks to lower the dose to zero before surgery including dental surgery and do not take if taking anticoagulant meds.
I would suggest getting a hair analysis which will help you take additional appropriate meds.
If taking a mineral take a multi mineral too; or if BP allows take pinch of sea/rock salt dissolved in warm water daily.
In 1997 I was hospitalised with a virus & while on the ward,I had one of the episodes of tachycardia which had been occurring for awhile.I had been dealing with these by lying flat until they ceased.The medics tested my thyroid,assuming I had an overactive thyroid & discovered I had an underactive thyroid & also that I was very anaemic.I had all the heart tests as an outpatient & heart disease was ruled out.
Over the 16 years I was on thyroxine,I continued to have episodes of tachycardia,with my heart rate at or near double speed.In addition,I had long periods where ectopic beats were present.
I was eventually prescribed T3 to add to my thyroxine & things improved until the NHS withdrew my prescription after 2 years.I then decided to trial NDT.
Before settling on NDT a prolonged episode of tachycardia in 2015 saw me at A&E.This lead to a repeat of all the heart tests plus some new ones & a diagnosis of supraventricular tachycardia.
My experience of tachycardia & ectopic beats is that they relate to my thyroid gland.My condition is managed best by the right amount of thyroid medication.A gene test has shown me to have inherited a poor ability to convert T4 to T3 from both parents. I do best on NDT.
I take iron,single B vitamins including B12,Vitamin C,D,E,omega 3,zinc,selenium,omega 3,magnesium,folate regularly.
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so that has been the most worrying symptom of all this.
Hypothyroidism 
Hypothyroidism
? Hypothyroid 
Hypothyroidism
Subclinical hypothyroidism and hypothyroidism
