WE'RE MISSING SOMETHING: IODINE! How does the T... - Thyroid UK

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WE'RE MISSING SOMETHING

GKeith
GKeith

IODINE! How does the T4 convert to T3 without iodine? They have taken the iodine out of just about everything and for no reason? I believe I am going to start dosing my own iodine? Why the hell not? And, why haven’t I been dosing it? Am I wrong or am I right? Do we or do we not need iodine to get the Levo to convert? I’ve been “aware” of this fact forever so why haven’t I addressed it? I suppose because I began eating more hardboiled eggs and dosing them with salt and not sea salt or any of the other stuff; the iodized salt with high levels of sodium but then I would say the regularity lost itself and I now have only a modicum of remembering the last time I did put salt on anything but corn on the cob or a hardboiled egg. I need to either eat more food with salt or dose some iodine. How about it?

99 Replies
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helvella
helvellaAdministrator

Each molecule of T4 contains four atoms of iodine.

Each molecule of T3 contains three atoms of iodine.

Therefore, conversion of a molecule of T4 into a molecule of T3 actually releases an atom of iodine - rather than needing any extra! The process is called deiodination - removal of an iodine atom.

Have a look at this document:

dropbox.com/s/5iz07xh8dr1n4...

MjM2015
MjM2015 in reply to helvella

Yes we should be taking iodine and selenium. Iodine must be Lugols and selenium by biocare. But theres a process to taking iodine. Has helped my hashimoto's and thyroid amazingly.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to MjM2015

Yes we should be taking iodine and selenium.

That is a big statement. You are saying that absolutely every single member here should be taking iodine and selenium. No hint of a suggestion that any testing might be in order before making the decision. No possibility that anyone could already have high iodine or selenium levels.

Iodine must be Lugols and selenium by biocare.

That is an interesting statement. Why must iodine be Lugol’s? Why must selenium be by biocare?

Ernest2
Ernest2 in reply to helvella

Never heard of Lugol's (my ignorance)

I do Iodine by Cerebos, and Selenium by 2 Brazil nuts (and no more) a day. Understand you can overdose on Selenium. Need to read about Iodine. . .

Am I missing something? Fully agree on testing if you can get it.

(My excuse) I've low sodium because I pee too much and GP have no idea why to refer me, and endocrinology at hospital blame effect of chemo. . . Have fixed the sodium (and hence potassium loss) with Cerebos and X2 Bananas for the potassium (despite the write ups that say bananas not that good).

If you run out of sodium I u derstand your body trashes it's potassium.

I'm awaiting my first T4 test after many years of asking (I'm sure it will be just fine )

Many thanks all for all that you do.

Best wishes,

Ernest

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Ernest2

A paper which explains clearly what Lugol's solution is - and advice about care in dosing.

Look Out for Lugol’s

Error-Prevention Strategies for This Strong Iodine Solution

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Ernest2
Ernest2 in reply to helvella

Many thanks Helvella, I have been warned.

Best wishes,

Ernest

Sharoosz
Sharoosz in reply to helvella

Lugols is one of the few that is for oral use and dosable. There's info on the internet available regarding it. I was very tired after moving to UK and finally realized last year that there was no iodine in most table salt here. (That was not the only problem but one part of it.) You can buy iodized salt at any Polish shop.

Ernest2
Ernest2 in reply to Sharoosz

Cerebos is avail in supermarkets e.g.

sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/pro...

Most I think wouldn't know about it. Open to advice on the dosing. How does it compare with Polish ?

I see 1.5g of Cerebos is only 20% of your daily iodine. I need to go away and think about this. Of course with many things you can get away with less than the RDA . . .

Best wishes,

Ernest

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Ernest2

Tata salt is also available - especially online.

british-salt.co.uk/retail/

Also, quite a lot of processed food, especially what is produced in Germany and Poland, incorporates iodised salt.

Ernest2
Ernest2 in reply to helvella

Interesting I was wondering that. I generally scratch cook due to health. So go Polish or German for processed food then.

Or eat lots of Cod? (No I haven't checked that one . . . )

GKeith
GKeith in reply to Sharoosz

They put this stuff(Lugols) on cuts, man. I don't want to ingest something I use to heal a sore or cut? I mean ..... Blessings be upon us all in these pandemic times,

Sharoosz
Sharoosz in reply to GKeith

i've taken it for a few years, no problems. Just a few drops in some OJ, stir well and drink.

Sharoosz
Sharoosz in reply to GKeith

You should read up carefully on it as far as dosing and titrate as suggested before you do anything. And of course, if it doesn't help, then stop. Just don't make any other changes at the time (ie adding other supplements or other lifestyle changes), so you can tell if it's doing something or not.

No. Only supplement with iodine if you have been tested deficient. I took iodine supplements by accident in a multi vitamin. I did this for years and it messed up my thyroid.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to Lalatoot

That’s not really what I meant. If we are ‘sick’ and by that I mean weak, in our 60, 70’s or 80’s and we cannot convert T4 to T3, for whatever reason(s) than it probably doesn’t matter that the iodine in the T4 molecule contains 4 atoms or the T3 has 3 atoms of iodine if there is something wrong with your human body, especially if you have, I believe, a certain hormone that prevents that man or woman from converting the T4 to T3 for genetic reasons. And then, there’s reverse T3 and what about our health? Why is it we have so many toxins in our bodies that we can’t even begin to be in good enough health to convert the T4 to T3 ourselves, to begin with? For example, toothpaste and water have dangerous additives that are toxic? Fluoride is found naturally in soil, water, and foods. It is also produced synthetically for use in drinking water, toothpaste, mouthwashes and various chemical products. Water authorities add fluoride to the municipal water supply, because studies have shown that adding it in areas where fluoride levels in the water are low can reduce the prevalence of tooth decay in the local population. Tooth decay is one of the most common health problems affecting children. Many people worldwide cannot afford the cost of regular dental checks, so adding fluoride can offer savings and benefits to those who need them. However, concerns have arisen regarding fluoride’s effect on health, including problems with bones, teeth, and neurological development.

And that’s not even to mention things like: Triclosan. Which, by definition, is a pesticide, however, it has been used to help fight plaque and gingivitis due to its strong antibacterial properties. ... and …

Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (SLS) ...Propylene Glycol. ...Carrageenan. ...Glycerin.Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (SLS) ...Propylene Glycol. ...Carrageenan. ...Glycerin… yes it’s that bad and we, with our toxic-infected bodies must now deal with fighting off an underactive thyroid as we age and can barely even remember what our dose is, much less why we aren’t converting?

I only wish, for all our sakes, that it was, in reality, simpler but, woe-is-me, there are no absolutes in this god-forsaken world and we must but suffer but not without a fight. I’m gonna go get some iodine right now. Never was one to miss a chance to feel healthier (even if it’s just a little bit healthier, cause it’s been a long time since I have (felt healthy).

Peace be upon us all in these pandemic times, as if it wasn't bad enough, huh? We gotta deal with this ... not to mention Donald Trump who is still complaining that he "WON."

islandlass
islandlass in reply to GKeith

which flouride do they add? NOT natural but the scourings of industrail waste - used in camps during the war to dumb down prisoners and make them more pliable, needing less guards - a well known and documented fact.

Please do not ask for all my research of over 40 years about this and many other events that have and are happening. Do your own research (if it is still on the net) and then, just maybe, we will all start not just accepting at face value what the talking heads and 'quote' experts say, swallowing it all without proper understanding and oversight.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to islandlass

Good thinking, I try to stay away from the Internet nowadays. I have hundreds of books, dozens on thyroid matters & greatly appreciate people like Paul Robinson, Broda Barnes, Mark Starr, Diane Culik, Ridha Arem, James Wilson, David Brownstein and on and on ... especially doctors who have suffered like their patient's have; these men and women are priceless, as are so many sufferers on here who pass their great knowledge on pricelessy only to help we other sufferers in this cold, cruel world of people including innumerable "doctors" who have somehow, somewhere along the line, forgotten they are human beings and given up their humanity for possessions and money. Peace be upon us all.

Surgebinder
Surgebinder in reply to GKeith

Im using Dr Brownsteins covid protocol and i can tell u its working, my oxygen levels were dropping yesterday and im fine today, perhaps 70% recovered.

Pleasantly surprised to come across his name on this forum, he's a real hero.

chriscross66
chriscross66 in reply to GKeith

Lynne Farrow has written an excellent book on Iodine, The Iodine Crisis. I read this then got my iodine levels tested with Medichecks. I came back deficient so bought some drops and followed the protocol in the book. I felt an improvement in my general health almost immediately. I would highly recommend reading the book and making your own decision x

GKeith
GKeith in reply to chriscross66

Thanks chriscross66 for that priceless info. Peace be upon you.

greygoose
greygoose in reply to GKeith

If we are ‘sick’ and by that I mean weak, in our 60, 70’s or 80’s and we cannot convert T4 to T3, for whatever reason(s) than it probably doesn’t matter that the iodine in the T4 molecule contains 4 atoms or the T3 has 3 atoms of iodine if there is something wrong with your human body, especially if you have, I believe, a certain hormone that prevents that man or woman from converting the T4 to T3 for genetic reasons.

There's so much wrong in that paragraph that I don't know where to begin. You must be converting some of the T4 you're taking to T3, or you'd be dead! So, some of that iodine must be being recycled in the body.

And, if you are taking exogenous thyroid hormone, it means that your thyroid itself isn't making thyroid hormone and therefor your body needs less iodine, not more.

There is no hormone that prevents people from converting, either 'genetically' or otherwise. As someone said - can't remember who - the only bodies that cannot convert any T4 to T3 are dead bodies.

And then, there’s reverse T3

Yes. What about it? It's totally irrelevant. It doesn't do anything except stick around for a coupld of hours, and then get converted to T2. The T2 gets converted to T1. And all the iodine is recycled.

And, I really don't know where toothpaste comes into all this. Do you swallow your toothpaste? I only use a tiny dab, and spit it out. I don't think it has anything to do with iodine or conversion of T4 to T3.

I'm sorry, GKeith, but I think you're barking up completely the wrong tree. Maybe even the wrong forest.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to greygoose

Below Paul Robinson answers my question:

“I have frequently observed that, after an increase in thyroid medication, patients immediately feel a lot better. This can be more obvious when someone adds T3/Liothyronine. The individual is often con-vinced that this increase is going to be wonderful for them, and that they will now continue to feel so much healthier. However, after 3 – 5 days, this initial benefit often disappears and they feel just as bad as they did before. Why is this? This pattern is easy to understand when you realise that the conversion rate of T4 to T3 is not fixed – it is variable and regulated.”

T4 to T3 conversion requires adequate amounts of the right deiodinase enzymes. These enzymes are heavily dependent on the mineral selenium in their construction. Consequently, it is important to have enough selenium in the diet or through supplements. The conversion process is also dependent on levels of B12, zinc, ferritin, and iodine. D3 deiodinase enzymes convert T4 to Reverse T3 (rT3). Although rT3 itself only has a minor effect in reducing the level of D2 enzymes, it is a marker for problems. This is because when rT3 is high, there is likely to be a higher level of D3 enzymes. D3 enzymes prevent T3 from binding with receptors in the cell nuclei, i.e. they block the effect of T3. In some ways, rT3 can be seen as a ‘T3 blocker’, but it is really the D3 enzymes that are doing this.

Look, bottom line here is this I take levo and Lio, a T4, T3 combination and suffer on it now, even though I have been on it for two years and the first year and a half were good. But I, now, 6 months ago began getting hypo/hyper symptoms and have tried far too many dose over and under reactions: like T4 only then T3 only, then starting all over again with another "useless" trial, 2 years ago, of T4 50, T3 30, then, after 6 months, T4-75, T3-20, then T4 100, T3-20 before getting too many over or under (Levo-Lio, T-4, T-3) back & forth symptoms & still don’t understand them, so I’m still on the last dose of 75 T-4 and suffering, at this time.

The hardest thing to do is to explain this so a child can understand it. I am that child, or try to be when I try to explain it but it’s hard & I probably failed it here, again.

greygoose
greygoose in reply to GKeith

Well, I can't honestly say that I understand what you're asking. All I know is that it's perfectly 'normal' to feel well after an increase, and then symptoms come creeping back in again. This doesn't mean that the T3 - or levo - is not 'working' anymore, it just means that you're ready for your next small increase. Working your way up, slowly, one hormone at a time, is the way to go, not jumping around increasing, decreasing haphazardly, as you give the impression of having done in your explanation above.

I'm not sure Paul Robinson is entirely right in what he says about rT3. Yes, if you have high rT3 it will mean that you have D3 enzymes around. But, I hestitate to agree that D3 enzymes block T3 receptors. I've never heard that before. It used to be believed that rT3 blocked T3 receptors, though. But, we now know that it doesn't. It has its own receptors. Oh, and a deiodinase enzyme is not the same as iodine, if that is what you were thinking. It is the enzyme that removes an atom of iodine from the T4 molecule, to to make either T3 or rT3 - de-iodinase, as in de-frost. If that makes any sense. But, I'm sure you already knew that. The liberated atom of iodine is then recycled in the body.

But, if Paul Robinson has answered your question, then all the better! But, I still don't see how taking iodine is going to help. It might make things on hell of a lot worse!

GKeith
GKeith in reply to greygoose

If you live in Europe, or in Japan, Okinawa, etc. you may not need iodine because of the salt and few people here eat kelp or seaweed, spinach or brocolli, etc and if you live in the U.S. you should already know that there is almost no iodized salt served or sold here and the emphasis is that iodine is no longer "needed" in our system and so, most of us, including me, simply forget about it, until you don't. In the past week I have added 1 tablespoon of chlorophyll & 200 mcg's of selenium to my diet, and am about to look at adding 12,500 mcg's of iodine, through 6,060 mcg's of sodium iodide, 6060 mcg's of potassium iodide & 380 mcg's of (Kelp) iodide. If I'm right I'll let you know, if I'm wrong, I'll have the coroner call you. Peace be upon us all.

Dreea
Dreea in reply to GKeith

hi Keith, I know everyone's body, immune system is different, but just to share that I had my iodine levels tested, have not used iodised salt in years since I found out I was hyper and did not want the salt to act like a supplement since I did not need it, and so my tests came back with an adequate iodine level because iodine is actually contained in many kinds of fish and I eat fish. What I'm trying to say is, enriched salt or seaweed are not the only sources of iodine. I live in France. All the best

GKeith
GKeith in reply to Dreea

Makes good sense, brother. Peace be with you and god help us all through these hard times.

besttimes
besttimes in reply to GKeith

Two years - have you had your vitamin B12 levels checked?

abirose311
abirose311 in reply to greygoose

Not knowing where toothpaste comes into this, do you think only medication can be ingested sublingually? If I can take my medication without swallowing it, then why not my toothpaste?

greygoose
greygoose in reply to abirose311

Ah, depends on the medication. You CANNOT take thyroid hormone sublingually, as many people think. The molecules are too large to pass the mucous membrains.

I have no idea of the size of the molecules of the nasties in toothpaste, but given how small an amount of toothpaste you should be using, only tiny weeny amounts of these nasties could possibly get through before you rinse your mouth. So, I don't really see that as a huge problem.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to abirose311

It's not THE toothpaste, it's what's in the toothpaste? Toxins are invisible. If I told you that fluoride could kill you, would you believe me? But, if someone like Albert Einstein told you that would you, then, believe, that information? Remember Einstein & all the great things he discovered & said? The principle of relativity: The laws of physics are the same for any inertial reference frame and the principle of the speed of light: The speed of light in a vacuum is the same for all observers, regardless of their relative motion or the motion of the source of the light.

He also once said that imagination is more important than knowledge because knowledge is limited while imagination encircles the world. Peace be upon us all in these dangerous times and, please, let us never forget love, it is more important than anything or even everything, for it is the light that brings us closer & closer to God which only the youngest of children can understand; but if only we would listen to their "babble" we too would understand what they are really saying. Peace be upon us all.

Dreea
Dreea in reply to GKeith

that fluoride can be toxic is well known but only in extremely high concentrations, like most things

MjM2015
MjM2015 in reply to Lalatoot

We can find out by placing 2 drops of iodine into.our wrist to see how long it take to disappear, should take 24hr of its.shorter then your deficienct.

greygoose
greygoose in reply to MjM2015

No, you can't find out that way. That test was discreted a long time ago. It is affected by so many variables that it is useless. I think the best test is a urine test - but not a loading urine test.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to MjM2015

I do not believe that any form of iodine patch test is suitable for diagnosing iodine deficiency or sufficiency.

You might care to have a look at my document about the patch test:

dropbox.com/s/a4xpwn6fwc42g...

Jazzw
Jazzw in reply to MjM2015

Old wives’ tale I’m afraid. Or rather, a tale told by charlatans trying to flog us treatments we don’t need.

Same here. I used it on my skin for sores and put myself hypo and and having hard time fixing it. My numbers went from 75%in range to under 25% range. Tsh went from under 1 to 10. I will no longer put that on my skin.

Taking iodine will make things much much worse. Not advised.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to Jazzw

Why? History tells us that a huge amount of Naturalist doctors in the USA prescribe it regularly? Dr. David Brownstein is an author and iodine expert who has treated 1000's of patients in his clinic and he states: "As I started to use larger amounts of iodine (12.5-50 MG'S a day) to achieve whole body sufficiency I began to see positive results in my patients, as Goiters and nodules shrank, cysts on the ovaries disappeared and patients reported increased energy and metabolism, as they lost weight, got back their Libidos and even as their brain fog disappeared; they reported many pleasant dreams as they slept so much better and their symptoms were resolving as they continue to get better." Peace be upon us all.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to GKeith

Take your pick - Brownstein or the "conventional" views.

Let us know how you get on.

Iodine-induced thyroid dysfunction

Angela M. Leung and Lewis E. Braverman

Abstract

Purpose of review

To summarize the mechanisms of iodine-induced hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism, identify the risk factors for thyroid dysfunction following an iodine load, and summarize the major sources of excess iodine exposure.

Recent findings

Excess iodine is generally well tolerated, but individuals with underlying thyroid disease or other risk factors may be susceptible to iodine-induced thyroid dysfunction following acute or chronic exposure. Sources of increased iodine exposure include the global public health efforts of iodine supplementation, the escalating use of iodinated contrast radiologic studies, amiodarone administration in vulnerable patients, excess seaweed consumption, and various miscellaneous sources.

Summary

Iodine-induced thyroid dysfunction may be subclinical or overt. Recognition of the association between iodine excess and iodine-induced hypothyroidism or hyperthyroidism is important in the differential diagnosis of patients who present without a known cause of thyroid dysfunction.

Keywords: hyperthyroidism, hypothyroidism, iodine, thyroid

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Jazzw
Jazzw in reply to GKeith

If it worked then we’d all be taking it. Don’t you think that would be the first thing this site advises if it worked?

I’m going to quote greygoose who hopefully won’t mind. :)

“Iodine is ONE OF the ingredients of thyroid hormone. So, it's not going to do much by itself. Plus, if your thyroid is failing, and can't make hormone, it's not going to help. Doesn't matter how many eggs you put in the batter, if your oven is on the blink, you're not going to get your cake.

“Plus, excess iodine is anti-thyroid. It used to be used to treat Grave's patients before anti-thyroid drugs were invented. So, you could end up worse than you were before. And, if you have Hashi's, you could end up ten times worse, because it can trigger attacks on the thyroid, hastening its demise. So, it's not something to mess around with.

“Before taking iodine, you should get tested to see if you actually need it. And, if you do, you should only take it under the supervision of an experienced practitioner.”

Assiya
Assiya in reply to Jazzw

I did an iodine 24 urine test and was way toohigh!!? By the way my levo has only sodium.

Assiya
Assiya in reply to Assiya

Nevertheles I do read good coming from.iodine supplementing selenium and salt

SeasideSusie
SeasideSusieAdministrator in reply to Assiya

Assiya

Iodine is not an added ingredient in a Levothyroxine tablet. Read the first reply above by helvella where he explains about the molecules of Levo containing atoms of iodine and the deiodination process.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to Jazzw

How do you know if or how much your thyroid is "working?" I was diagnosed 30 years ago as hypo and, to this date, no GP, naturalist doctor oe endo has ever so much as mentioned my thyroid or its ability or inability to work or it's level of converting. And neither the iodine patch test, the urine test or any blood test has "satisfied" any of the doctors I have tested with, so I feel that there are really no tests that can tell you how much or how little iodine is in your blood?

MjM2015
MjM2015 in reply to Jazzw

Disagree

Jazzw
Jazzw in reply to MjM2015

Your prerogative. :)

I’ve read that selenium requires to turn T4 into T3. It’s a trace mineral and can be toxic in high doses.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Tuscansun

All three main thyroid converting enzymes depend on selenium.

Arch Biochem Biophys. 2016 Apr 1;595:113-9. doi: 10.1016/j.abb.2015.06.024.

Selenoproteins: Antioxidant selenoenzymes and beyond.

Steinbrenner H1, Speckmann B2, Klotz LO3.

Author information

1 Institute of Nutrition, Department of Nutrigenomics, Friedrich-Schiller-Universität Jena, Jena, Germany. Electronic address: holger.steinbrenner@uni-jena.de.

2 German Institute of Human Nutrition Potsdam-Rehbruecke, Department of Molecular Toxicology, Nuthetal, Germany.

3 Institute of Nutrition, Department of Nutrigenomics, Friedrich-Schiller-Universität Jena, Jena, Germany.

Abstract

Adequate intake of the essential trace element and micronutrient selenium is thought to be beneficial for maintaining human health. Selenium may modulate a broad spectrum of key biological processes, including the cellular response to oxidative stress, redox signalling, cellular differentiation, the immune response, and protein folding. Biochemical and cellular effects of selenium are achieved through activities of selenocysteine-containing selenoproteins. This small yet essential group comprises proteins encoded by 25 genes in humans, e.g. oxidoreductases such as glutathione peroxidases (GPx) and thioredoxin reductases (TrxR), as well as the iodothyronine deiodinases (DIO) and the plasma selenium transport protein, selenoprotein P (SePP1). Synthetic selenoorganic compounds, including the GPx mimetic ebselen, have also been applied in biological systems in vitro and in vivo; antioxidant and anti-inflammatory actions of ebselen and its history as a drug candidate are summarised here. Furthermore, we discuss several aspects of selenoprotein biochemistry, ranging from their well-known importance for cellular protection against oxidative damage to more recent data that link selenoprotein expression/activity to enterocyte and adipocyte differentiation and function and to (dys)regulation of insulin action and secretion.

Copyright © 2015 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

KEYWORDS:

Diabetes; Differentiation; Ebselen; Glutathione peroxidase; Oxidative stress; Selenoprotein P

PMID: 27095226

DOI: 10.1016/j.abb.2015.06.024

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/270...

Tuscansun
Tuscansun in reply to helvella

Thanks for the study info!

Mmmmm 🤔........ well .. you can have mine as well as your own .. because I’m too afraid to touch it ..

I have Graves’ disease .

Best of Luck though ..

M🌹

How about taking sea kelp? Surely this is a good option as it contains good amounts of iodine naturaly as well as many other trace minerals including selenium, personally I believe taking or even blaming problems on just one single supplement is not looking at the whole picture and taking things out of context, I believe our bodies are much cleverer than that.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Liam12

It might contain selenium, but seemingly only in small amounts:

Selenium Content

A 1/2-cup serving of kelp -- approximately 40 grams -- contains 0.3 microgram of selenium. This amount supplies just 0.5 percent of the Food and Nutrition Board's recommended daily allowance of selenium for adult men and women over 19 years old. According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration's guidelines for labeling the nutrition content of foods, kelp cannot be considered a good source of selenium because it does not contain at least 10 percent of the RDA of the mineral in every serving.

healthyeating.sfgate.com/mu...

The iodine content of kelp varies considerably. The variation due to the precise variety and where it was harvested are likely accessible by looking at the supplier's information. But variations from plan to plant, batch to batch, month to month, are more difficult to establish.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to Liam12

May be you're right. But, if there are any hypo's that take NDT and do good on it, just remember what today's "conventional" doctors say how it is "rusty" and outdated it is and we (meaning we patients) must take T4-only. That's Big Pharma talking (they "own") all these doctors and bought them with the cheapest generic pill on the market, T4.

Peace be with us all.

abirose311
abirose311 in reply to GKeith

I take NDT. Armour works best for me. It's the most expensive and (as far as I know) the only one with iodine in.

I've often wondered whether iodine is the reason that Armour works better for me.

I bought some iodized salt last week, to add to my diet while I finish half a bottle of another NDT. Glad I found this thread today.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to abirose311

Peace be upon yourself and your new knowledge because I know you will share your experiences with others, who also suffer needlessly & for wont of a doctor who is also a human being with a heart and a soul, usually missing in so many of us.

I’ve been taking iodine and selenium for a year and I have to say it’s been very helpful for me. I have noticed better concentration a d focus & fewer colds/sore throats. I would not take iodine without selenium as this would result in low T3 levels which we all know is not a good thing if you have hypothyroidism.

If anyone does take iodine it’s best to do under the supervision of an iodine literate practitioner.

Good luck in getting your health back.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to Polly91

Does the iodine contain potassium iodade, sodium iodade and/or molecular iodade? And, if so, what strenghts? In mg or mcg? And, how about L-tyrosine? Peace be upon you.

Polly91
Polly91 in reply to GKeith

It’s a mixture of potassium iodide and iodine (ie molecular iodine). I started on about 12 mg but now on about 50mg but i am under the care of an iodine literate practitioner and take selenium (& a couple of other supplements that are advisable with iodine).

I would not have taken iodine without proper supervision but I’m glad I did - it has been v helpful to me.

All the best to you too.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to Polly91

Ah, good for you, please let anyone & everyone know so if they are suffering needlessly they can see a practitioner also or make their way with help from others like yourself. May the Lord's peace be with you.

Polly91
Polly91 in reply to GKeith

Of course. I’m happy to share my health “journey” which has involved use of iodine. I now only take metavive having stopped Levothyroxine 2 months ago. I know there are diametrically opposed views on iodine.

Feel free to message me directly if you wish.

All the best to you all.

I understand that vegans should take Iodine because they are likely to be deficient. Iodine has been linked to Thyroid cancers and Iodine supplements not recommended for these patients. All that said, come back in 20 years and see if we know more. Perhaps get tested first.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to annnsandell

A vegan diet isn't necessarily low in iodine!

The Vegan Society (based in the UK) has a page on iodine:

vegansociety.com/resources/...

I was diagnosed with a hot nodule and hyperthyroid 3/4 years ago and was recommended to look at and join this amazing site. Long and short - I was advised to have RAI. On refusal it was suggested I have Carbimozole, as I felt well and was showed no symptoms I decided to do my own thing without medication. I belonged to a group of fellow thyroid sufferers who suggested I could be low on iodine...I did their suggested skin test and also a Medichecks urine test...both indicated low iodine. I took 2 drops of lugols a day for 3/4 months along with other supplementing and dietary changes and according to my last blood tests I am 'biochemically euthyroid spontaneously' but I will have my bloods done again in 6 months as recommended. This is a completely personal path which has, so far, worked for me. I am about to have another Medichecks urine test to see if it was an iodine thing or not. Good luck which ever way you decide to go.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to mrtodd

I sincerely would like to get rid of all my meds for good, I mean, to have no symptoms & be euthyroid is what we're suppossed to become eventually, right? Peace to you.

Jazzw
Jazzw in reply to GKeith

I’m so sorry GKeith but given you’ve been diagnosed with hypothyroidism for at least 30 years (according to your oldest post here) it’s incredibly unlikely you’ll be able to go without thyroid hormone replacement now.

You might be able to limp along without for a while but after that it’s likely you’ll get steadily sicker. Throwing iodine at a poorly functioning thyroid won’t make it suddenly spring into life. It’s more likely it’ll finish off (for good) the last of its remaining function.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to Jazzw

How can you see my thyroid from such a long distance away? How is it you can judge a book before you have read it or even seen its cover? Does God make miracles happen only on the young? Are you also saying you believe if I hadn't ever started thyroid hormone I'd now .... be....... what? Dead?

Jazzw
Jazzw in reply to GKeith

Look, go your own way. Do your own thing. You keep asking the same questions over and over again. Good people (I’m not including me in that—I’m mediocre at best :) ) have given you their best advice on several different posts now. You seem determined not to take any notice of anyone who may have a differing view to your own. That’s your choice.

I absolutely wish you well.

But for what it’s worth, ok, yes. I think there’s a good chance you would already be dead if you hadn’t taken levothyroxine for most of the last 30 years. There’s a reason levothyroxine is prescribed free of charge here in the U.K. (and T3 for that matter, if you can persuade an Endo to prescribe it) and that’s because if you have a failing thyroid, not treating it will kill you. It may not kill you quickly, instead gradually making you progressively more ill; it will hasten your death. Every cell in your body needs thyroid hormone. Your gut needs thyroid hormone to function well, absorb nutrition. Constantly chopping and changing your thyroid medication is making it harder and harder for your body to cope, for your brain to function. You’re already finding it hard to express what you want to say. This isn’t a coincidence.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to Jazzw

I never said anything about what would and/or will happen if I don't take thyroid hormone medication. I said I would, personally, like to try to get off all thyroid hormones and start over but, only by replacing the generic hormones with food and vitamin supplements and a lifestyle of exercise, etc. Of course if hormones entered, again, into the equation and I felt I must take one or more, I probably would but, make no mistake about it; neither you nor I nor anyone else can see into the future, so that part of your arguement is null & void before you make it. I personally know guys who took thyroid hormones but quit cold turkey and are alive and seemingly extremely healthy. What do you think naturalist doctors preach? I also know of several naturalist doctors who claim to have had auto-immune thyroid diseases and are euthyroid and take absolutely no medications or hurmone pills. Like I have said many times, brother, there are no ABSOLUTES in this world and you are so wrong it ain't even funny. Peace be upon you and may the grace of god help us through this pandemic.

Jazzw
Jazzw in reply to GKeith

Once again, I’m not a brother. :)

Take care, really hope it works out for you and that I’m as wrong as you think I am.

OforOnward
OforOnward in reply to GKeith

But with thyroid issues euthyroid doesn't mean 'without medication' it simply means your levels look like those of someone without a thyroid problem. Which is achieved by taking hormone replacement.

It's not a weakness or failure to take hormone replacement to help your body. I don't particularly like the idea of taking T4 for life, but I much prefer it to the alternative.

I've read a few of your posts and feel like you've swapped and changed your dose so frequently that nothing has worked and so now you're searching for the reason why.

I think it's been suggested more than once that you stick to one dosing regime for at least 6 week, get your bloods retested and go from there. Small changes each time and change only one of your meds at a time. It can feel like a painfully slow process, especially when you've felt unwell for so long and you want to feel better. The body isn't a machine, it takes time to adjust.

For whatever reason you're reluctant to hear that.

I wish you the best of luck for the future and hope you find what makes you well.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to OforOnward

No, I am not reluctant to hear anything but I have suffered needlessly, as when I ordered hormone drugs and the drug manufacturer changed 3 times in a row, which changed the ingredients in the drugs I was getting three times straight, so I was getting pills that were all different, colors, shapes, sizes AND manufacturers AND one of the pharmacists, when I complained, read me the rights that Publix had to change any & all DRUG PERSCRIPTIONS Ffrom brand name to a generic, so 3 different generic drugs in a row totally confused me and it is still happening to me and many others. When I demanded a brand name that I had (mistakenly) thought I had previously taken and got it for $60 a month and then couldn't take it, as my body was functioning on what (always generic) drugs it had been taking for the past 30 years. Capitalism is in everything and imagine yourself in such a position, would you continue to take the poison (to you) they prescribed to you or look for the ones that you knew (from taking it previously for so long) were "alright to take?" And, what would you do when you had researched these drugs and could no longer find them?

OforOnward
OforOnward in reply to GKeith

We've all suffered needlessly; that's why we all found our way here. I'm sorry that your health has been so disrupted. It's an absolute outrage that thyroid health is so neglected.

BUT! None of that changes the advice given to you. Have you stuck to ONE dose of your hormone replacements for 6-8 weeks yet?

Jazzw
Jazzw in reply to GKeith

I don’t understand why you think generic drugs are poison. I don’t doubt that some brands of levothyroxine suit some better than others but the only difference will be the excipients. The medicine itself will still work.

It all depends why your thyroid is not functioning. We are all different. I am iodine deficient and I don't have hashimotos. I think those with very low antibodies should consider iodine deficiency. I know I'm deficient because if I even eat fish my heart races. It wasn't obvious untill 5 years ago I got a CT scan with iodine contrast. It effected me quite badly and I went hyper. Ended up in hospital. After things settled my thyroid worked wonderfully for about a year. I lost 11lb in just a few days. All my fluid retention dissapeared and bloating. I felt great but it didn't last. I'm more hypothyroid than I was before and my body craves iodine so much my heart races when it gets any. I had great difficulty with Thyroid hormones when I started that. I'm now on low dose T3 but my body is now craving T3. I tried stopping it but my body is not happy. If I try to go without it I get terrible headache and racing heart. Can't win so I'm now attempting to add tiny amounts of iodine so shall see how it goes.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to magsyh

I have duplicated your T3 addiction and am trying to get off it and T4 if at all possible. And how will I do it? Take NDT? Maybe another pill or pills? Check out mrtodd above. Maybe I'll try it myself. Cold turkey? Wait a minute; I think I already tried that? Ahha brain fog again. Oh well, maybe the iodine will work? Peace be upon us all in our struggles with life.

I found this extremely interesting. I've had a lot of thyroid problems going back seven years. My biggest problem is that my thyroid bloods show me either at the very top of range or slightly over and yet I have so many worrying hypo symptoms. If I decrease meds even a tiny amount, I become very hypo. If I increase them even a small amount I do become slightly hyper. A huge range of tests have all come back normal. An ultrasound last week showed everything looked normal, although they did not test that my thyroid is working correctly. I expected them to do that too. I have a telephone consult with my private endo tomorrow. He told me that if all the tests showed normal, then he would have to accept that all my many symptoms are thyroid related as everything else has been ruled out.One of the things I've been looking at is Iodine deficiency. I have been a vegetarian for forty five years so I am at risk. I was very surprised to find that the table salt I always buy does not have iodine added. I believed this had been compulsory for many years but obviously I was wrong. I read that a lot of breads have added iodine, but flour does not. I started making my own bread about six years ago and now rarely buy bread.

I'd also read that it is dangerous to self medicate with iodine so I intend asking the endo to agree an iodine test. I am surprised that it's never been suggested that I have an iodine test as far as I know. It's so hard to keep up with everything that we should or should not do. Doctors from my experience have been no help.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to dizzy864

I was very surprised to find that the table salt I always buy does not have iodine added. I believed this had been compulsory for many years but obviously I was wrong. I read that a lot of breads have added iodine, but flour does not.

I think this is one of the problems with internet information.

Iodised salt is available in the UK, but has to be looked for. You might need to go round several shops to find any. But in many other countries it is mandatory - such as the USA.

Some iodine compounds have been added to bread dough, certainly in the USA but possibly elsewhere, as dough conditioner. Over the years, some USA bakeries have switched to bromide dough enhancers - which are implicated in having negative effects. But this is not the case in the EU or UK. It is not even legal across the USA - banned in California and some other states.

Poniesrfun
Poniesrfun in reply to helvella

Both iodized and iodine free salt are available in the US. There is some level of iodine deficiency related to a heavy anti-salt bias but this is not frequent as can be seen by how difficult it is for a thyroid cancer patient to follow an iodine-free diet prior to RAI. Deficiencies can be, of course, corrected with very small amounts of iodine. Sadly many people confuse the symptoms of hyperthyroidism with hypothyroidism as they can a) often be similar and b) can overlap with both being present at the same time - common for those treated solely with excessive levels of T4. The kind of advice given by moderators here to look at the total picture is some of the best available.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to dizzy864

I had a good friend once who refused to go into the hospital where my daughter had just given birth to my garndaughter. I knew him from the gym; guy was fanatical about exercise; worked out every day. He said (pointing at the hospital) That's where people die. I haven't seen him in40 years but he may have been right. Check out mrtodd, above. Dude's got the right channel but we are all different and are all, also, in different situations but, I still say, he's right but only if he is truly euthyroid, which I believe means he has replaced his thyroid meds with food and supplements. Peace be upon us all.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to dizzy864

Do you have any of the bottles of the pills you take or have taken? Everytime you change manufacturers, which, for me, is through Publix Pharmacy, every other month, they obviously "buy the pills cheaper" and this, subsequently gets you (the guinea pig) a different pill, manufactured by a different pharmaceutical company and with fillers and added "junk" that may even be "toxic" to you personally "forcing" you (because if you demand the brand name you will have to pay extra money for it) into a Capitalistic "corner" to pay & suffer or just suffer through every generic change. And, it's unknown totally to most thyroid "sufferers" why they are even suffering when it is because they changed the generic pill again and why should they tell you (the guinea pig) when you don't know why you're suffering from so many headaches but asking yourself why it always happens when you "change" the T4 pills and especially the T3 pills because they are 4 times as strong as the T4 pills? Never happen to you? Just wait? It will? Peace to us all in these times?

Way back I read that someone with Hashis taking iodine was like throwing oil on a fire... I don't have Hashis [as far as I know], and have considered iodine simply because, as my G'mother used to say, "I'd take horses 💩 + tram tickets, if they made me well". Fresh out of trams these days 😅 but, what's really missing, seems to be conscientous, knowledgeable endos. 🤷‍♂️

GKeith
GKeith in reply to LindaC

Right on. We need to educate ourselves and dose ourselves if possibl& absolutely demand doctors that have common sense enough to tell us the truth so we can start feeling well enough just to smile when we wake up and don't have to worry about being so exhausted from doing nothing as our endo's do absolutely nothing that makes any sense to anyone but them. Peace be upon everyone in this pandemic times and the anxieties & life-ruining tiredness we have to suffer through in order just to breathe fresh air and feel "normal" again.

LindaC
LindaC in reply to GKeith

Agreed: however, the more we stand up for ourselves, as individuals, the more they try to 'do us in' with their colleagues... no, not paranoid at all, check your medical records people! 😅 Sadly, many of those that I've encountered are schoolboys seeking to be Head Boy within their little cabal. It is so very sad to see... the actual doctors who do 'know stuff' are bullied into submission and worse by those 'Gangsters'.

Whilst wholeheartedly agreeing with your sentiments, we differ here: the only 'truth' to them is their own little version, (actually, there are only good working approximations, as such, there is no 'truth'). Also, I don't want Common sense, I want Exceptional sense... they are meant to be educated and they receive remuneration more than many of our average qualified people... they need to at least ACT as if they warrant the title Doctor, not like some sneering little weasel... I refer here to many of the chronic illness guys, NOT the excellent doctors and researchers who save lives and to whom we all owe huge gratitude and thanks! 💔💛💚

GKeith
GKeith in reply to LindaC

Thanks for that well thought out and informative post because we need more stories we can relate. When I said common sense I meant it because so many doctors, endos and others just seem to forget about it and in doing so elevate themselves above us lowly human beings and thereby lose much of their humanity in the bargain.

LindaC
LindaC in reply to GKeith

Thank you, I was trusting that you wouldn't take umbrage - I can't see why yet - since the world we're currently inhabiting seems to have become so precious about... 😅

Notions of grandeur from medics... they seem to forget that in these times, as opposed to the dear old gentleman doctor - educated beyond most around him - KNEW the privilege that gave him and, in the main, behaved professionally. Today seems like a free-for-all to do down anyone who dares to question [their often ignorance on specific things] anything, no matter how our health sufferes. Many have become tyrants who simply 'can't afford to be wrong' in their own heads. Recipe for Disaster, eh?

I absolutely agree about endos. My problem is that I don't know if I have hashi s or not. I have many of the symptoms but somethings don't seem to fit. The endo I saw in March laughed when I asked him if I had hashi's. Then said, "Ofcourse you do. 99% of hypothyroid patients have hashis." I didn' believe anything else he said so can't really believe that from him either. I can definitely relate to your grandmother. I reached that stage several years ago.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to dizzy864

A story like most of ours and if we keep up thinking we can tell it better it will get better and at the same time change into the truth as we suddenly realize what has happened to us and how we can help one another much more than the so called "experts, simply by exchanging experiences. Peace be upon us all in these crazy times.

I agree with you - they are taking iodine out of everything and making it difficult to obtain iodised table salt. it makes you wonder if they are in cahoots with Big Pharma... I used to get my Cerebos iodised salt from Tesco or Morrisons locally - now I have to travel at least 8 miles to get it at Sainsbury as they are the only supermarket still selling it! I also buy Lugol's iodine drops (2 a day) from Amazon or eBay.

GKeith
GKeith in reply to Lozza61

Is it working? I hope so because we need it to be healthy and convert T4 into T3. Peace unto you.

Lozza61
Lozza61 in reply to GKeith

Well I think it definitely helps - hope it helps you too.

So i was trying to find on here if anyone has tried supplementing iodine and suffers from hashimotos, as i wanted to try it myself and i came across this wonderful post.

Ive been taking a 150mcg iodine supplement for around 7-8 weeks, along with 3 Brazil nuts a day for my selenium needs & as i have read selenium is needed to get rid of the toxicity of iodine. Selenium in high dosages can be fatal.

One Brazil nut on average has 96mcg and RDI is 55mcg, which is a mind boggling for me.

I have gained 10kg in the last 2 months or so and im now 20kg above my pre hashimotos weight, i also have insomnia for the last 2 weeks approx. I fall asleep around 4-5am and wake up at 10-11am, I don't know if this is linked with my iodine supplementation, just laying out all the facts.

I currently have a cold possibly covid, which i am 80% recovered from (dr brownsteins protocol to thank there) (symptoms-fatigue, muscle ache, headache, sore throat, +40 resting heart rate increase, blood oxygen drop to 89%). (I mention this to be thorough and incase it may be linked to my insomnia or even a small way to my iodine intake)

Now for the possibly positive news, the following is the results from my last two medichecks thyroid tests this year.

July 10th

TSH(0.27-4.2)- 2.75

Free t3(3.1-6.8)- 5.16

Free thyroxine(12-22)- 16.3

Thyroglobulin antibodies(<115)- 213

Thyroid peroxidase(<34)- 558

Nov 18th (4months later)

TSH(0.27-4.2)- 1.64

Free t3(3.1-6.8)- 4.49

Free thyroxine- 13.7

Thyroglobulin antibodies(<115)- 97.1

Thyroid peroxidase(<34)- 371

So as u can see my thryoglobulin antibodies have fallen, my thyroglobulin has fallen to the normal range. Thyroid peroxidase is still high but fell by 187.

Now i cant say for certain its the supplementation thats caused the reduction in antibodies but i shall pursue this further and update results on here.

I will do a medichecks iodine urine test this week and hopefully it will come up as deficient, i shall then supplement with lugols iodine (will probably have such an increase as to go from mcg to mg) and then retest antibodies a few months later. I won't take iodine supplementation 48 hours before giving samples.

Just a couple more random thoughts, i was fasting before the recent thyroid blood test as in fasted for some days before the test and on the day of the test(sunrise to sunset, no food or drink), I don't think i did this before the first blood test and i also didn't take levo for two days before the second test in the past i did 24 hours.

I haven't had a cold in many years, in fact i used to suffer more from colds when i was much younger, healthier & no thyroid issues (5+ years ago). I thought of this being the one and only positive thing of hashimotos disease, now when my thyroid antibodies have fallen ive caught a cold, coincidence ? I don't know. I know its a wild thought but i thought id put it out there incase anyone has experienced anything similar. Just realized a multivitamin i take also has 150mcg iodine, i have perhaps been taking that for 3-4 weeks.

If anyone can find a cure for thyroid diseases its going to be the folks on this forum, stay positive.

Dr's drum it into us that there is no cure for thyroid diseases, that's an incorrect statement, rather there is no known cure.

Am I missing something? I don't see how those results show an improvement. Your TSH and antibodies have reduced but so has your T4 and more importantly, so has your T3.

If you feel well, then that's great, but shared experience from this forum would suggest you'll begin to feel worse if your T4 and T3 keep dropping.

I hope this isn't the case. I'd be curious to see you next set of results though. :)

I'd say i feel worse especially energy levels wise, I don't know what's caused my t4 and t3 levels to drop, they've been steadily dropping for a while. Its also possible winter might play a role with the reduced amounts of sun exposure.

My vitamin D level actually dropped ( did wellman ultra tests at the same times as the thyroid tests) and i had been taking 4000iu d3 a day. I've switched to a vit d spray now incase my body has absorption issues. Also the fasting may have had an impact.

Im curious about my next set of results as well, will keep you guys posted 😊

tgirlnc
tgirlnc in reply to Surgebinder

You absolutely should not take iodine if you have Hashi. The good feeling and results are temporary. thyroidpharmacist.com/artic.... It is well documented by many other well respected autoimmune thyroid specialists.

If only we could explain our problems clear enough to a doctor who knows enough medicine and spots the symptoms of our problem quickly enough to get us treated like any other human being instead of a blood test. Peace upon us all.

Apologies as I have only skimmed the comments and see some have said iodine is not good to supplement. This is 100% for anyone with Hashi. It has been well documented by autoimmune thyroid specialists and can make Hashi worse and raise antibodies. It is weird how this keeps coming up in multiple groups that i am in...this is a great article that explains why not to supplement iodine and the "feel good results" are short-lived. thyroidpharmacist.com/artic....

I take Nascent Iodine drops and Organically Bound Minerals that have iodine in them, occasionally and not together. I also season my food sometimes with Organic Dulce Granules that have sea vegetables in them that contain iodine. I don’t take any of these things often or regularly. I don’t know if they are doing any good or harm but I do know that I feel better after taking them and I’m Hashi Hypothyroid.

Need to know your results inc lab ranges, and if you have known adrenal fatigue issues and cortisol levels...

Three things are always low, my sodium, my cortisol & my chloride and, usually my Ferritin.

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