New mg's of Metavive porcine/bovine - differences & strengths, any experiences on which is stronger?

[Jenny583]

Hi all, I am not able to obtain anymore OTC T3, as all sources appear to have dried up. I am not able to obtain blood tests either, but have been taking (what is probably dodgy) Tiromel, and also Metavive. I have no chance of obtaining Levothyroxine so I will have to rely on metavive for the remainder of my life.

I am nearly out of Metavive, but the dillemma for me now is; until recently the bovine IV was 65mg x 180 & more or less same price as porcine 11 x 90 which was just 30mg.

But now just 90 capsules of bovine IV is same quantity, same strength, & same price as the porcine II which was (previously 30 mg), but now 80mg.

Does anyone know if the manufacturers have filled up with fillers what was previously low dose porcine? I need to know which seems to users of this glandular to be stronger, as I have to order 6 x of either the porcine or the bovine very soon.

My FT4 was usually under range or bottom of range (in spite of high dose biotin) - so I am probably a good converter). Both my T3 & T4 are dire, so I don't mind a higher bovine T4 ratio supplement.

Thanks!

[RedApple]

Jenny583, 'Does anyone know if the manufacturers have filled up with fillers what was previously low dose porcine?'

Have you tried contacting the manufacturers for help with your query? I would think they'd be the best people to explain the differences in their products and help you make your decision.

[Jenny583 in reply to RedApple]

Thanks! I will try that.

[Serendipitious in reply to Jenny583]

If you can report back that would be great thanks.

[Jenny583 in reply to Serendipitious]

Will do. I am just about to order truck loads of the Bovine IV. x

[Jenny583 in reply to Jenny583]

I did get a phone call from metavive - which I must confess, left me none the wiser, so it's guinea pigs away!

[reliablerebel in reply to Jenny583]

@Jenny583 out of desperation I ordered metavive11 (porcine) as it was the nearest to my usual thai thiroyd. Been on it a month now, doing very well on it. Had to lower dose as I was overmedicated. Nearly ready to do blood tests. At least I know it works. good luck x

[Jenny583 in reply to reliablerebel]

That's great news!

Iv'e ordered the Bovine as I still have some Tiromel , but I will try & order a UK FP blood test tomorrow.

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Jenny583

Have you read what it says on the website about why the weight of the capsules have changed? It explains exactly what they have done, i.e added nucleotides, and why the difference in weight.

Stated in the description of every Metavive on their website is the following:

Note for Regular Customers: Please note that the change in weight of active ingredients shown on the new product label is simply due to the addition of nucleotides to the original formula. The weight of meat within each capsule has not changed, so to all our regular customers who are used to the original formulation, please continue using this new product the same as you did previously.

So Metavive ll which was 30mg thyroid glandular is still 30mg of thyroid glandular, the extra weight making it up to 80mg is the nucleotides.

I don't know what weight Metavive lV was before but it will still have the same amount of glandular now as it did before.

Some people do better on one than the other, and this is probably due to their own needs and the fact that the thyroid glands of pigs has a different ratio of hormones to the thyroid gland of cows and even though they don't declare any hormone content and just say it's freeze dried gland, there is bound to be some difference. So if you were doing OK on whichever one you were using before then stick with it, if you think you could do better then try the other.

[Jenny583 in reply to SeasideSusie]

OK Susie, I will try the bovine, as there are less added nucleotides in that one, so hopefully more glandular than the Porcine - which appears to be mostly fillers...

[Anthea55]

Google for Metavive and you'll find the suppliers. On that site it explains the 'New improved formula'. It's not just fillers, they've added "5’-Ribonucleotides". As far as I can see all the Metavives and Adrenavives have the same stuff added and you can't get the old formula any more.

You might find it useful to just order one bottle of whichever one you want until you are sure it works for you.

I've not tried the bovine.

[Jenny583]

Thanks Anthea55, I asked the suppliers if the fillers have jumped 100% for the porcine II, it seems an awful lot, 30mg to 80mg? that's an awful lot of "5-Ribonucleotides" to add to 30mg!

I can understand a 10% addition of active fillers in the bovine IV capsules (65mg to 80mg) but 30mg to 80mg for the porcine II addition of 5-Ribonucleotides ? just seems a bit of a stretch to me! I suspect something somewhere involves rice fillers TBH. I posted the question because I am feeling very much more hypo...

[Anthea55 in reply to Jenny583]

Metavive I was 15 mg - now 40 mg. Metavive II was 30 mg - now 80 mg.

Metavive III and Metavive IV (bovine version) now 40 mg and 80 mg respectively.

So all have gone up in proportion and are well over double. I've tried to follow through the links to nucleotides4health.org but nothing seems to tell me what they are made of. There's plenty of info to say what they are NOT made of - quoting from the supplier's website.

"Now includes a synergistic complex of all four primary nucleotides."

"Purified and quality tested to be gluten, yeast and lactose free. Free from all artificial additives (colours, binders, fillers and flow agents such as magnesium stearate). Free from added salt, sugar, starch, wheat, corn, dairy and soy derivatives"

It also says "Although the 5’-Ribonucleotides in this formula are extracted from YEAST, this ingredient is quality tested to confirm NO YEAST remains in the finished product."

What it doesn't say is if it was made from any of the other foods which some of us are sensitive to. For example potatoes?? which I'm sensitive to.

Frustrating....

[Jenny583 in reply to Anthea55]

So sorry, Yes it is confusing isn't it? Of course they have to keep quiet about what proportion of 'active hormones' may or may not be in them, or else pharma & their slaves would put them out of business. I suppose the only way to test is by diary/notes & how we feel. But 1 thing's for sure - it's gonna cost. That 1 manufacturer have - at least for now cornered the UK market for thyroid replacement for those who rely on some basic functionality. And boy, don't they know it!

We are all guinea pigs hanging on pig gland merchants products now. So we need to share our diaries, with up dates. Good luck! x

[Jenny583]

OK, I took RedApples's advice & emailed my query. I then had a phone call from the supplement manufacturer, or reseller? I was told that the meat content of both the metavive bovine IV & also the porcine II have the same meat content as before, so in other words the bovine is now mainly 5-nucleotides & the porcine is now as before but with just a 10% or so addition of 5-nucleotides.

In other words the bovine is now twice the price that it was before, & appearsto consist of mainly fillers! So feedback on what is now the only obtainable animal thyroid bits is now even more important.

The salesman also gave me the name of a naturopath that visits Jersey - from time to time, but is not able to provide scans, tests, or medicine, but recommends "metavive" products.

So thanks to all the info, I will be reordering & probably doubling my dose of Porcine metavive, & when my T3 runs out probably taking a whole bottle a day of the supplement!

[Anthea55 in reply to Jenny583]

Be careful of doubling your dose - the nucleotides seem to increase the strength of Metavive. For some this makes no difference, but for others we end up being overdosed. You are then advised to cut right back and then gradually increase. My first attempt at changing over to new Metavive (when I didn't know this) also coincided with the heatwave and I felt very overdosed.

I've always used Metavive I rather than Metavive II as it makes it easier to adjust the dose.

[Jenny583 in reply to Anthea55]

Thanks for that, I will bear your experiences in mind, & take things slowly. I have been taking the new formula of porcine II for a while now, & feel hypo. I will reorder the same, & will see if I need an increase based on temperature, which has dropped.

I likely need a high dose though, but I'll take it slowly.

[reliablerebel in reply to Anthea55]

I agree with Anthea, I am on metavive11 and it certainly seems stronger than I thought, i ended up overmedicating, which caused several symptoms - insomnia, skin sensitivities, a feeling of something crawling through my hair, and increased rhr. All sorted with a drop in dose thank goodness. Took me a while to work out what the problem was. At least I know it works!

[Jenny583 in reply to reliablerebel]

Great to hear that Metavive II works for you reliablerebel. I suppose it depends on whether or not you can obtain a prescription for Levothyroxine - or not. I don't like the thought of ingesting such a high dose of nucleotides, so I will order the Bovine IV & see how I get on with that, I can always increase the dose.

[reliablerebel in reply to Jenny583]

I never want to go back to levo - I have been on thai thiroyd for the last five years quite successfully. Has taken a while to find something that works since they stopped making thiroyd. So I cannot afford to be too fussy, and at least this works, and I need less of it than I thought I would! I chose porcine because that is what the thiroyd I was taking was.

[Jenny583 in reply to reliablerebel]

So pleased you found a a substitute for thiroyd that works. I may appeal for sources of NDT soon, if I go downhill any more, as it is I cannot function, so hanging onto the hope that I can find the right dose of Metavive, while I still have some eked out T3 left.

[Jenny583 in reply to Anthea55]

I agree Anthea55. IF the original whole glandular & rice in the bovine AND in the porcine is the same strength as before - then that would suggest that the porcine II is now overwhelmingly nucleotides. (they are both 80mg by weight). In that case the bovine IV has less nucleotides than the porcine. I will therefore try the newly formulated bovine, only way to find out if that's an improvement (as I have to go by how I feel) - is to try & see. But the fact remains that I need a high dose, as I can no longer find sources of T3.

I had severe thyrotoxicosis when young, so I know what hyper feels like, & have not felt hyper in 40 years!

[MichelleHarris in reply to Jenny583]

What are nucleotides please?

[Jenny583]

They are some kind of filler/supplement that manufacturers are putting in OTC potions. Here is how they are described:

"A nucleotide is the basic building block of nucleic acids. RNA and DNA are polymers made of long chains of nucleotides. A nucleotide consists of a sugar molecule (either ribose in RNA or deoxyribose in DNA) attached to a phosphate group and a nitrogen-containing base."