I did stop my t4 medication and slowly go up with natural dessicated thyroid .
I can t loose weight and have insulib resistance not diabetic. My insulin was 16 in june 3_25 range. I was on 1 grain ndt.
Then i dit go up to 105 mcg ndt. Almost 2 grain. I am on a low carb diet and intermitting fasting.
I did in september a insulin test and my insulin is 24 ! Never was it this high. It was supossed to help me with insulin. I did go d l for 4 weeks on a holiday and did my diet let go. But it seems impossible only a few weeks can cause this.
Does anybody have a clue? I dont have thyroid resulst but in sure my ft3 is not high or overmedicated.
Most weird thing is it looks like i am loosing a little weight wich i could not.
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Meavis
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Too much t3 can play havoc with blood sugar levels. When I was on 2 grains of ndt I experienced massive blood sugar crashes. Do blood test to see where your levels are. Also fasting is too much stress on hypothyroid body. Maybe just give your body nice and steady supply of energy.
Yes i know i just forgot it. But my ft3 is normaly low 25% with t4. Now it like 40% those few hours wont make a great diffrence. There is not much t3 in that amount of ndt. People use average 3 grain. I will retest but i am pretty sure it low. Low ft3 is 1 of my problems.
Do you mean blood glucose level of 16 and 24mml/L. If so both are very high but not unusual, if you have insulin resistance.
The liver keeps releasing a form of glucose into the blood stream and, if you have insulin resistance or untreated diabetes, it will remain in the blood, building up. You would feel tired, thirsty, pee a lot and lose weight among other things.
If your blood glucose levels have been this high for a while you would be going into diabetic ketosis . This can become very dangerous, even life threatening.
I would get a HbA1c test done, it shows your average blood glucose level over the past 3 months. Your GP at least cannot/will not refuse to do this test.
Low carb diet should help if it is temporary insulin resistance and you are not diabetic.
I’ve had Td1 for over 40 years and have a continuous glucose monitor 24/7 showing glucose levels every 5 minutes. I can see exactly how thyroid and adrenal issues cause insulin resistance and live with the consequences. Frustratingly even that’s not enough for GPs and endos to test let alone treat 😤
NB the range for a person without diabetes or treated diabetic is 4.5-6.5.mml/L
How would you say these issues affekt your Blood sugar? I have the same kind of monitor and I am always tired etc, even with good glucose levels. So I am suspecting thyroid issues. Would be interesting to hear how is has affected your sugar. As I am seeing “inexplicable” blood sugar weirdness too.
Hi insulin resistance is what happens right before you become diabetic. So my glucose an hbac1 are fine beause of to much insulin. Insulin must be under 5. Glucose is normal.
Keto is like 20 gram carbs. Sometimes i do more carbs and sometime less. I do this diet a long time.
Meavis I know many people recommend a low carb ketogenic diet for diabetic conditions, insulin resistance etc but I can tell you that this does not work for quite a large number of people. Fat blocks insulin receptors, for a start.
My daughter is a type 1 diabetic and she was low carb for years. Her blood sugars were OK to begin with - ie it looked as if it was working. But after a while her blood glucose levels went out of control, she had to take more and more and more insulin and she blew up like a balloon.
To cut a long story short, she tried a high fibre, low ish fat, plant based diet. Meat is inflammatory, a higher fat diet blocks insulin receptors and you need a massive amount of fibre from vegetables and low glycemic fruit such as apples and berries. She ended up having to drop her insulin to about a quarter of her highest levels, her weight dropped and she looks and feels fantastic. So I would say try a plant based diet with some oily fish such as good quality salmon, don't eat refined foods or at least keep them to a minimum, get your sleep, keep your fasting window to no more than 14 hours, try having cinnamon sprinkled on food like porridge, fruit etc as it helps with insulin resistance, also perhaps try other supplements recommended such as berberine (shown in studies to be as effective as Metformin but has a HUGE range of other benefits too), chromium etc.
Keep stress levels to a minimum, drop inflammatory foods like dairy and gluten - and sugar obviously - and have a maximum of 2 cups of tea/and/or coffee a day. Oatly Barista is lovely in tea or coffee if you are looking for a dairy alternative that doesn't taste hideous.
Use legumes such as lentils, black beans, red kidney beans etc and fish for protein. To reduce any inflammatory compounds in legumes, soak for a few hours and cook in pressure cooker. Bulk cook and freeze to save time.
This sounds counter intuitive to low carbers - my daughter was literally terrified to swap but she would never go back now.
There is a programme online called Mastering Diabetes which is precisely this. Very interesting how low fat plant based whole food diet can pretty much reverse Diabetes. Difficult to stick to though !!
Yes, I know of it. You don't have to go quite as low fat as they say. The main thing is that carbs in the form of legumes, low GI fruit, WG rice, oats (organic) and potatoes are not quite the demons they are made out to be.
For fats stick to things like avocados, olives, nuts, seeds. Hummus coated salad sprinkled with lemon juice and pumpkin seeds tastes great, boiled new potatoes with mashed avocado and garlic is amazing. You get round it. I would not go back and nor would my daughter.
This is true. You have to experiment. According to what my daughter researched if you go higher carb you have to go lower fat. It's the combination of carbs and fat that messes up most people's blood glucose. But as you say, we all react differently. The basics hold true though; lots of green veg, lots of brassicas and no refined carbs or processed foods, including oils.
Thanks somuch for sharing all of this. I have been so stressed this year trying to figure out the best diet. I was doing well dropping weight and feeling good on the 4 Hr Body diet till the pandemic hit and it became hard to get the right foods for that diet. Certain things became scarce in my area for several months so I ended up back on gluten and also with gym being locked down I have gained a lot of weight back. Some other information I ran across is that people with the MTHFR mutations and people with Native American heritage do not do well on intermittent fasting because it makes the body slow metabolism even more. After doing this for several years now I have to say this does seem to hold true. I had never heard about fat blocking insulin receptors so this is good info to have and makes me think that may have been why I felt so horrible on keto after a few weeks. And just wanted to let everyone know when I was doing 4 Hr Body I discovered there is the most incredible pasta made out of 100% red lentils that tastes as good as wheat. It also has lots of potassium which helps you shed water weight. Just make sure to get one of the 2-3 brands that does not have anything added like rice flour that raises the glycemic index too much.
Yes, it's a minefield! I think that a fasting window of a maximum of 14 hours works for most people. Some can do longer but this is doable and won't mess up your metabolism.
What many fail to stress is that it is important to have a highly nutritious diet. We hear about what we 'shouldn't' eat a lot more than what we should. Ideally we need at least 10 portions of veg and low GI fruit per day. On an average day I have 15. Include those used in veg juices, smoothies, salads, stews, sides etc and vary the colour. The rest is then made up of whatever works best for the individual and what systems are under stress.
I've been doing a max of 12 hr fasting and I think even that is getting me into trouble because it slows down metabolism for someone who is Native American or Indigenous descent. I have also read that fasting stresses the adrenals too much. Despite all the contrary diet advice online I feel better if I eat more often rather than spacing food far apart. And I have never felt quite right when eating high fat diets. Will be interesting to see in a few years how the strict keto followers fare. I am thinking of returning to the 3 meals a day, no snacks diet like we were taught growing up because it seems like people were healthier and weighed less back then. My only problem is my schedule most days puts me away from home for so many hours and I do not eat restaurant food which is really how I ended up on a two meals a day diet that basically is mimicking fasting. Also this doesn't work well since I have been hypoglycemic for years, not diabetic.
One of my friends today is reeling because her 41 yr old brother just had a massive heart attack. He had been on the Carnivore diet which is an animal products only diet if anyone hasn't heard of it.
And - I agree - 3 meals a day, no snacks is a sensible way forward unless you struggle with serious low blood glucose issues and, even then, it should only be unless you can wean yourself off eating so regularly.
NB by bulk cook I mean make 2-3x whatever you are going to make with beans - eg curries, chillies, stews, soups and freeze what you don't eat straight away.
I also suffer insulin resistance and have found having a high protein very low carb breakfast works well for several reasons. It keeps you satiated so less likely to want to eat again before lunch. It keeps your blood sugar level following on from nighttime right through till lunch. And it helps absorbs free hormones in your body. What I mean by high protein is 35-50g of protein via a vegan protein powder or mackerel or chicken or smoked salmon. With some veg. Or some eggs but eggs are only 7g protein so you’d need several.
Then at lunch and dinner I have a small amount of carbs. Like half a medium potato. Important to have some carbs just not drown in them.
I used to do Keto and it worked for a while abs then stopped working. Plus I became heavy on the cream and actually I’m not good with dairy. Am now also dairy and gluten free. I would advise a no carb almond or coconut milk is better than oat as oat tends to still have quite a bit of sugar and sometimes gluten. I have oat milk occasionally as a treat
I eat fruit but i pair with some nuts to blunt the insulin response. And I’ve been doing strength training as muscle also improves insulin sensitivity. Sleep also important.
I’ve lost 11kg since may from 92 to 81kg. So I wasn’t huge but it’s a good dress size.
I really dont want to talk about diet. I know there is a keto vegan disscusion with glucose insulin issues. I tried the vegan, now i am on keto. That works fine normally my insulin is 10 or 16 or 8.
I do hava a specifik question about the suddenly rise in insulin. At that moment i started t3 medication. And also did eat carbs like sweet patotoes and a little bread etc. It was holiday so.
My question is more does anybody with thyroid issues experience problems with insulin and t3. Do i maybe need to adjust ?
Hi Meavis. I have high insulin but I’m not diabetic and I’ve tried several combinations - 2 grans of NDT (which I had high hopes for but actually I gained weight) then T3 50mcg only which I felt reasonable well on but couldn’t loose weight, then I decided nothing to loose and went with Endo suggestion of T4 175mcg with a little T3 25mcg (split over the day) and finally I am loosing weight and my insulin level is coming down. I’ve read so many times we all need different combinations, but now I really understand what people mean. I also have a double mutation of the DIO2 gene so this is the last combination I would have expected to work. Definitely for me personally too much T3 equals weight gain or weight static. I hope this helps.
Thanks its difficult we are all different in this. I am finally loosing weight this is so strange??do you think maybe my body needs t get used to t3 ? I was a long time on t4 medication only. For te most part i read t3 helps hypo with insulin resistance.
I agree I’ve read T3 helps with insulin resistance but I’ve also read too much T3 creates insulin resistance. I would love to hear of anyone else knows more about the connection between T3 and insulin resistance.
No i dont my father did have diabetis tho. And my thyroid issues do mess with this insulin problem.I see a lot of hypo have glucose problems. I am also overweight wich does give problems with insulin. But i cant loose weight. So i am stuck with hormonal problems.
Are you on any medications? Many mess with insulin and/or blood sugar - especially steroids.
I suggest that although you don't want to think about diet you consider Alan Christianson's metabolic reset diet. I was keto for years but my liver started to struggle, and the liver basically controls everything. I did the MRD for quite a short time and all sorts of things began to improve. Its only short term, you can go back to a normal healthy diet after a few weeks, I'm pretty well paleo now.
Well both of those affect blood sugars. I would be wary of doing anything to mess with the insulin/BG loop if you have unexplained high insulin.
It also occurs to me that insulin is necessary to drive protein into the cells. What sort of amounts of protein are you eating? Most keto diets are too high in protein.
I do berberine and black seed.oil to lower insulin. What are you saying? I did also start black seed oil new do you think it can be an issue? I did buy it because i did read it helps with overal health.
My proteïne is mostly from meat fish eggs yoghurt. I mix keto with low carb. I do go higher in carbs with vegatables. I cycle the carbs.
What I am saying is that when you take stuff that affects blood sugar you can never be sure what is happening. So the best thing is to stop everything (except NDT of course) and see what changes. You should have no issues from the NDT as long as your FT3 is within range.
That is far too few calories. Your metabolism will shut down, and it's really difficult to get it going again. 1500 calories is a minimum, 1800 long term, for women.
Hi! I just wanted to share my experience with black seed oil just as a warning of what to look out for. I had only been taking it a short will and started getting more frequent periods. I started researching deeper about the oil and it took some digging, but I discovered it can cause progesterone to go up sharply in both women and men and unbalance their hormones. I stopped it and went back to normal. I'm not saying the oil is causing any of your issues you mentioned I just thought I should mention potential side effects.
My own experience is that hypothyroidism messes with insulin sensitivity. I was hypo for years before being diagnosed with Hashimoto´s, and then I spent years on levo without having my FT3 levels measured. It wasn´t until I ordered private tests that I realised my FT3 levels were only 30% through range (with FT4 at the top of range so poor conversion).
At the time, I discovered I had insulin resistance with fasting insulin of 18 (ref 2-24.9; should be <6) and fasting blood sugar levels of 97 (ref 70-110, should be <80). This was before I added T3.
My latest labs showed lower levels (insulin 13, blood sugar 90). Still too high, but better than before. I take 25 mcg of T3 daily. I have now added berberine and chromium.
I'm prediabetic and have been for over 20 years. Family history of diabetes. I gained a lot of weight not being diagnosis hypo for at least 20 years, this was confirmed by Dr Skinner. I have read just being hypo makes you more prone to diabetes because our bodies can't deal with carbohydrates efficiently. I didn't know of any connection with taking T3! Since the Nature Throid fiasco I've changed to T3 only now I'm wondering if my glucose which was 6.1 a year ago, will be even higher. I put on weight over the last year, so I've been dealing with this aggressively during the last 6 weeks. I'm climbing stairs a lot during the day to keep exercise up, I'm power walking twice a day, my route is around 2 miles long. I have my first walk before breakfast, and my last one after my evening meal. I do have a lot of belly fat, that's been impossible to shift. I lost 3 stones due to illness two years ago and only lost 1 inch from my stomach. I have cut out sucrose, cut down on carbs too. I never eat cereal for breakfast I eat things like omelette, scrambled eggs, baked beans. Over the last 5 weeks I've lost a stone, but I've been here before many times. We're only eating fresh ingredients, more fish than red meat. I think the walking should reduce my blood glucose and help insulin resistance. I can't pretend any of this is easy, I have really bad arthritis and spondylitis in my spine, it has all increased my body pain, and I know I'm pushing myself hard. I've lost an 11/2 inches of belly fat. I'm having a blood test next week, I'm hoping my blood glucose hasn't increased! I did read one woman reversed her diabetes walking after every meal, and it didn't need to be far either. I think the diet and exercise routine should help insulin resistance. I have noticed more energy, rather than fighting to stay awake, clearer vision, and clearer skin. I hope to keep this up but worry about further damage to my joints. I've had arthritis since my late 20's and I'm 64 now.
Yes first thing I tried. I prefer that than keto. I don't have good glucose on that so I stopped that. I have normal glucose but with the carbs from vegan food I did have not so good glucose. So then I switch to keto low carb. Wich I do good on always glucose 5.4 /5 insulin 8 a 16.
Hi Salman, I did that for 30 years and ended up with very low vitamin B12, nerve damage and iron deficiency. I still have anaemia so I really need to eat animal products. I'm happy being a veggie, but not healthy for me. I've noticed my iron raised a little now I'm eating eggs every day, so that's a step in the right direction. I've always eaten wholefoods, but it didn't stop me having high blood glucose. I used to eat porridge daily without sugar, and that coincided with a finger prick glucose test once, and it really caused a spike. I'm limited with fruits as I have interstitial cystitis, only pears and sweet apples don't cause me bladder pain, but I do eat a lot of vegetables, and salad leaves daily.
Interesting. It’s good to know how different people have been affected by plant based diets. I personally believe we should not completely cut out all food groups but definitely eat much more vegetables and fruit. What do you think works ?
What helps interstitial cystitis is low acid foods, so fruits like citrus and berries I can't touch. It's hard for people to understand this without experience of IC ,that consuming thes can cause many days of severe pain/ bladder spasms. So I do have limitations, last time I ate one strawberry I had 5 days of horrendous pain. Vegetables it's easier but I don't eat spinach or asparagus because of high oxalates. So the obvious vinegar, lemon juice, alcohol, tea ,coffee, spices etc etc I can't consume. I eat a lot of pulses. It's taken me 20 years of having this disease to know and avoid my triggers. I had 10 years of only drinking water, it can be a bit tedious.
Not sure what you're asking with what works, but the weight loss cutting carbs, cutting out sucrose and being more active. I noticed you are pre diabetic what has worked for you to get your blood glucose reduced?
I'm having to take iron, folate when my levels fall, I regularly take Vitamin D, selenium and inject vitamin B12.
Really struggling to get blood glucose under control. Morning is 8.5mmol constant and only thing that drops it temporarily is high bout of excercise. Trying more plant based but blood sugars going up and down like a yo yo. Haven’t started metformin yet as I’m hoping I can trial and error diet based first.
I'm sorry to hear this, it must be incredibly frustrating for you. I read yesterday that even your morning cup of coffee can affect blood glucose control. I'm wondering if walking before breakfast is a good or bad thing. I try and delay breakfast until 12 pm, so that's a long fast from dinner, it also means I can miss lunch. Whether this is having the desired lowering of blood glucose heaven knows. I think I'll have to start testing. Do you use fat to lower your reading? One thing that doesn't help me is I go to bed really late then I'm up and down to the loo, usually about 3 times but half hourly or more if I get a flare in bladder symptoms, I know lack of sleep can affect blood glucose levels. Since cutting out sucrose and a lot of carbs I am feeling more tired around 11.30 pm which is when I usually get my second wind. I'm not snacking in the evening now, and although I was going to bed hungry this has improved. I am more awake during the day now though so I'm hoping it's because my blood glucose has fallen. So look at your sleep pattern for any clues? It's a minefield!
Sleeping late is a killer true. Past few weeks during Covid have not been great, and routine is messed up. I am worried about increasing fats as I think it may contribute to more arterial issues later. But I am trying to balance for now and see where that takes me. Glad to hear you are making progress !
Hi, my bedtime is usually around 1.30am, and then I'm up at 8am, so it's not much sleep, I know this is having an effect on my blood glucose and blood pressure, and also weight. It's very hard to break this cycle. The two adrenal stress tests I've had show really low cortisol until midnight, I usually feel so much better at night, more energised which is a disaster for sleep.
I don't care much about fat to be honest, I cook my eggs in butter for instance, I take a good teaspoon of coconut oil daily, and if I'm making curry, I've started to use coconut oil to cook the ingredients. I've read it's a lot less toxic than using oil. I eat brie, drink full fat milk, I've had two echocardiograms and have very little deposits in my veins. I've read a lot of info on fats helping to reduce blood glucose.
Have you had your bone density checked? I was always told I had arthritis in knees and bone spurs and come to find out I have severe osteopenia. I started taking calcium citrate in addition to Vit K2 and the D3 I was already taking and eating some foods (not milk) that are reported to increase bone density and much of that bone and joint pain has settled down.
Hello, I've had X rays and MRI scans, I have bone spurs and joint damage everywhere the hospital looked at. I had knee surgery in 2007, and the damage was more than the MRI had shown. I've also grown osteophytes on every finger since my early 40's. I was offered knee replacements at the age of 49. My bone density is normal, in fact it improved a lot on thyroid meds over the course of 18 months, the results were so good the endocrinologist tried to hide them from me because he had given me the lecture. All blood test results except bone density and my GP gave them to me. I've always eaten a lot of dairy, but had a poor diet thanks to neglect as a child. My mum had terrible arthritis from her 20's she ended up double over a stick. One consultant I saw said it's a systemic arthritis, it definitely accelerated after a hospital infection.
It´s difficult to know because different sources state different things...some claim T3 will worsen insulin resistance (or even cause it at high enough doses), while some claim it will decrease it...so how to know what to believe?!
It makes sense that hypothyroidism messes with your carbohydrate metabolism as it messes with everything else in your body. Also, in the first stages of hypothyroidism, it would seem cortisol and adrenaline levels rise in response to falling thyroid hormone levels. Cortisol raises blood sugar levels which in turn increases insulin secretion.
So it´s really a vicious circle, and not easy to know what to think...
Yes exactly and to make it even worse doctors here don't help an don't see insulin problems. Only diabetic so testing is almost impossible. I do it all myself. But I had insulin resistance before t3 and went over to ndt help this problem. I do read to much messes with insulin. Not the use of t3.
In my experience, doctors are useless when it comes to nutrition and weight loss. They think it´s all about eating less and exercising more...when in fact too little calories and too much exercise can exacerbate problems in people with thyroid disorders , adrenal dysfunction, and insulin resistance. Most doctors seem to think insulin levels anywhere in range are fine, just like they say about the TSH...when weight loss is said to be much harder once you´re fasting insulin is >5. So, it´s only logical that fasting insulin levels of 24 make weight loss almost impossible, although you are not officially diabetic until they are >25 (at my lab).
I´ve been to doctors who claim hypothyroidism won´t cause weight gain, that weight loss is all about willpower, and of course that fat is to blame for any excess weight.
A few years ago, I tried Weight Watchers. It was quite a shock to me when I realised half an avocado made half my daily points disappear in one go...I simply cannot follow their programme. To me, it felt like a starvation diet, although they claim their meal plans are balanced and cover all your nutritional needs...
Thanks Purplecat, I've read low vitamin D3 also messes with your pancreas making you more susceptible to diabetes. It's difficult to know if T3 has a detrimental effect, as you say conflicting information. All I know is my sister, my mother and first cousin have diabetes, I've been prediabetic for 20 years, I know my diet is better, as I've managed to get to 64 without it developing into diabetes. In some ways having a bladder disease has helped this a little as I drink only water. I also have wholegrains, but I'm aware these can cause blood glucose spikes too, and have cut back a lot. I've stopped having porridge for breakfast, as I did every day, I eat eggs now which I'm not keen on! It will be interesting to know what my new results will be, I've been taking T3 for only 5 weeks, so I'm crossing my fingers!
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Overmedicated on NDT and puzzled
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