I requested a full blood count to see if I can get to the bottom of why I am still feeling unwell 2 years after starting Levothyroxine. I weigh 8 stone 8 pounds and I’m 5.3. I have been getting headaches that have turned into migraines and generally feel in low energy and mood. I have run for years, but that is now making me exhausted and results in worse headaches. I asked for my T3 to be tested but they have not done so. My other results are as follows:
T4 19 pmol/L (10.0-22.0)
TSH 1.0 mu/L (0.3-5.5)
In one week I will generally have 2 days when I feel ok and 5 when I gave varying degrees of headaches, fatigue, low mood.
I feel like the doctor is completely fed up with me!!
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Runner25
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I would LOVE to get rid of my headaches, they are absolutely debilitating. Mine range from muzzy head to full on migraines. I usually have 1 or 2 days a week with a normal head! I don’t know why I have the normal day’s, but glad I do. I think my worry is that they are getting less frequent. The other bad thing is that pain killers don’t do anything. I’m sure my doctor said my vit levels were ok, but he also said my T3 was and on the results it wasn’t on there!!
Thanks for this info. I think I will try B12. Is there such a thing as too much though? Can you recommend a good one to take and should it be taken far apart from Levo?
You really shouldn't start supplementing B12 without getting tested first. You need a base-line, even if you can't over-dose on it. It could be that your B12 is so low that you need testing for Pernicious Anemia. But, if you start supplementing, you won't be able to do that.
And, while you're at it, it would be a good idea to get vit D, folate and ferritin tested, too.
If you do end up taking B12, either in pill form or injections, you also need to take a B complex, because the Bs all work together and need to be kept balanced.
Thanks for this. The Dr said all my vit and min levels were within range? He referred me only today to an Endo so maybe I’ll wait to see him before increasing/starting any supplements. A note worth mentioning, I was on menoserene which is a multi vit with isoflavins. I have stopped taking it as I had read that soy can interrupt Levo and I wondered if this was causing me the bad headaches. The headaches did get better for a while, but now they’re back with a vengeance!
It is very important to remember that doctors - endos included - get no training in nutrients. They don't know any more about them than your or I - probably less than I! So, for them, anything in-range - even scraping along the bottom - is fine! But that is not so. For the most part, the ranges are far too wide, so just being 'in-range' is not good enough. You need to know where in the range your result falls. So, always, always get a print-out of results, with ranges, and post them on here, if necessary, and let someone who knows something about it have a look. Do you have the actual numbers?
All mult-vits are bad news, and my personal opinion is that they should be banned! And menoserene is no exception, for many reasons:
* If your multi contains iron, it will block the absorption of all the vitamins - you won't absorb a single one! Iron should be taken at least two hours away from any other supplement except vit C, which is necessary to aid absorption of iron, and protect the stomach.
* If your multi also contains calcium, the iron and calcium will bind together and you won't be able to absorb either of them.
* Multi's often contain things you shouldn't take or don't need : calcium, iodine, copper. These things should be tested before supplementing.
* Multi's often contain the cheapest, least absorbable form of the supplement : magnesium oxide, instead of magnesium citrate or one of the other good forms; cyanocobalamin instead of methylcobalamin; folic acid instead of methylfolate; etc. etc. etc. This is especially true of supermarket multis.
* Multi's do not contain enough of anything to help a true deficiency, even if you could absorb them.
* When taking several supplements, you should start them individually at two weekly intervals, not all at once as you would with a multi. Because, if you start them all at once, and something doesn't agree with you, you won't know which one it is and you'll be back to square one.
* Most supplements should be taken at least two hours away from thyroid hormone, but some - iron, vit D, magnesium and calcium (should you really need to take it) should be taken at least four hours away from thyroid hormone.
* The magnesium you take - and just about everybody need to take it - should be chosen according to what you want it to do:
Magnesium citrate: mild laxative, best for constipation.
Magnesium taurate: best for cardiovascular health.
Magnesium malate: best for fatigue – helps make ATP energy.
Magnesium glycinate: most bioavailable and absorbable form, non-laxative.
Magnesium chloride: for detoxing the cells and tissues, aids kidney function and can boost a sluggish metabolism.
Magnesium carbonate: good for people suffering with indigestion and acid reflux as it contains antacid properties.
Worst forms of magnesium: oxide, sulphate, glutamate and aspartate.
With a multivitamin, you are just throwing your money down the drain, at best, and doing actual harm at worst. Far better to get tested for vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin, and build up your supplementation program based on the results. A vitamin or a mineral is only going to help you if you need it, anyway. More of something you don’t need is not better, it's either pointless or even dangerous, as with iodine, calcium, iron or vit D.
I don't know if the multi had anything to do with your headaches, but soy products really aren't a good idea, either. It's not exactly that soy interfers with levo, it's that soy impedes the uptake of thyorid hormone - endogenous or exogensou - by the cells. So, you can have good levels in the blood, but still be hypo.
I am already on calcium with vit d at 750mg twice a day but must admit to not taking them as I was worried these were stopping the Levo, but I will now start taking them just 4 hours from Levo
Have you been prescribed Adcal? For any particular reason? Taking calcium supplements is a very, very bad idea. So, if you can possibly avoid it, do so. But, doctors prescribe it because they don't know any better.
It can also have a negative effect on the bones! Calcium is not a 'cure' or even a prevention for osteoporosis. And, it's doubtful if osteopenia is even a real thing. Other nutrients are far more important for bones than calcium, but we've all been brainwashed by the dairy industry. I would suggest you do more research on the subject, and perhaps join the Bone Health forum on here:
I'm not that sure about PA testing, because I've never done it (my B12, first time tested, was 345, about, and my GP said is was absolutely perfect! I said, not! And he said, well, it's only a vitamine. 🙄) But, Intrinsic Factor is one of the tests, yes. I think there's also MMA? Marz ! Help! She knows. lol
Never supplement iron without doing full iron panel test for anaemia first
Eating iron rich foods like liver or liver pate once a week plus other red meat, pumpkin seeds and dark chocolate, plus daily orange juice or other vitamin C rich drink can help improve iron absorption
This is interesting because I have noticed that many patients with Hashimoto’s disease and hypothyroidism, start to feel worse when their ferritin drops below 80 and usually there is hair loss when it drops below 50.
Dr Toft, past president of the British Thyroid Association and leading endocrinologist, states in Pulse Magazine,
"The appropriate dose of levothyroxine is that which restores euthyroidism and serum TSH to the lower part of the reference range - 0.2-0.5mU/l.
In this case, free thyroxine is likely to be in the upper part of its reference range or even slightly elevated – 18-22pmol/l.
Most patients will feel well in that circumstance.
But some need a higher dose of levothyroxine to suppress serum TSH and then the serum-free T4 concentration will be elevated at around 24-28pmol/l.
This 'exogenous subclinical hyperthyroidism' is not dangerous as long as serum T3 is unequivocally normal – that is, serum total around T3 1.7nmol/l (reference range 1.0-2.2nmol/l)."
You can obtain a copy of the articles from Thyroid UK email print it and highlight question 6 to show your doctor
Testing for Intrinsiic Factor anti-bodies can often throw up false negatives. Martyn Hooper - Chairman of the Pernicious Anaemia Society - tested negative 10 times before a positive result ... he was very poorly.
Your B12 result - only around 20% of the result is available to be transferred to the cells where it is needed. The Active test indicates the amount available in the blood for transfer but not the amount in the cells.
Raised levels of MMA and Homocysteine can indicate B12 deficiency in the cells.
Levels of B12 below 500 can be the cause of neurological symptoms and cognitive decline. Also B12 is involved in the maintenance of the myelin sheath that protects every nerve running through the body. Think of plastic covering on electric cabling ! 🌻
I have surely missed something - ah yes B9/Folate/ Folic Acid works with B12 in the body - in the bone marrow creating red blood cells being one.
PA is auto-immune - parietal cells that produce intrinsic factor are attacked. B12 levels are usually very low with PA. Intrinsic Factor binds to B12 molecules in the stomach - once extracted from food - before entering the Duodenum and to protect it on the long journey down to the Terminal Ileum. Here it is metabolized and returned to the liver for storage and re-use. Clever stuff.
Having lost my Terminal Ileum to surgery almost 50 years ago - the damage was done before I learnt of its role. Another medical error and never mentioned in my six monthly checks at the Crohns Clinic over many years.
MMA is an indirect way of determining whether B12 is being metabolised within cells. No Active B12 is needed with it, though they are often included in the same lab panel.
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