I have just been prescribed 20mg T3 and told to reduce Levo from 125mg to 50mg.
Should I simply reduce the Levo, and take the T3 as prescribed (10mg twice a day) starting tomorrow, or should I be reducing the Levo and increasing the T3 more slowly to help avoid any potential side effects?
Thank you
Written by
Annaoj
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
My goodness there is no way I'd reduce Levo that much and take that much T3 in one go!
If I take 6.25 of T3 (quarter of a 25mg tablet) I can really feel it. It makes me jittery and anxious and unable to sit still until my body gets used to it. I've never achieved much success with it. So I can't advise how to take it. Others will do that for you. But in case no one sees as it's a holiday evening, I'd just warn you not to start as you suggested. Wait for better advice to come along.
There seems to be quite a few endos who prescribe T3 who don't really know what they're doing, how potent T3 is, how much to reduce Levo (if at all). Either that or they are deliberately setting the patient up to fail the trial.
First of all, let's see if you need to reduce your Levo. If you do, it certainly wont be as much as reducing from 125mcg to 50mcg. Please post your current test results which your endo has based his dose of Levo and T3 on. It's essential to include the reference range so that we can see where in range your FT4 is and whether or not it your dose of Levo needs reducing.
Secondly, T3 should not be introduced at 20mcg. T3 is a potent hormone and the body needs to get used to it gradually. It would be a good idea to start with 5mcg once a day (morning) for a week to see if you have any reaction. If all is OK then you can introduce a second 5mcg (afternoon or evening), so a total of 10mcg and leave it for a couple of weeks to see how things go.
Another important thing is to have optimal nutrient levels before introducing T3, so can you also please post results, including reference ranges, plus units of measurement for Vit D and B12:
That’s an extreme way, definitely not what we recommend on here at all,
Majority of patients need to add T3 extremely slowly
Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .
Last dose of Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test. (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw).
This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip, best not mentioned to GP or phlebotomist)
What are your most recent results and ranges for TSH, Ft4 and ft3
Plus very important to have vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 optimal BEFORE starting on T3
What supplements are you taking?
What were latest results ?
Depending where Ft4 is within range, depends if you need to reduce Levothyroxine at all. If Ft4 is right at top of range, you might need to reduce levothyroxine by 25mcg ....doing this for 3-4 days before starting on T3
Only starting on 5mcg T3 in morning
(1/4 tablet...they cut easily with sharp craft scalpel)
If that goes ok....after a few days add 2nd dose 5mcg T3 in mid afternoon
Hold at that dose for 6-8 weeks and retest...before considering any further changes
If/when also on T3, make sure to take last half or third of daily dose 8-12 hours prior to test, even if this means adjusting time or splitting of dose day before test
L-T3 is about 3x as potent as L-T4, so the levothyroxine reduction is a little more than needed but not too far out (as an initial adjustment). You can migrate slowly but then it’s very difficult to know if the T3 is helping. Perhaps start on 2 x 5 mcg daily for a few days.
The half life of L-T4 is seven days whereas it is one day for L-T3. So, I would skip the Levothyroxine for a couple of days, take 2 x 5 mcg L-T3 + 75 mcg L-T4. This will even out the switchover a bit. This is a very rough guide but good enough.
After some days you can do a similar process to get to your 2 x 10 mcg L-T3 + 50 mcg L-T4 dosage. If you feel good on 2 x 5 mcg L-T3 then stick with it and let your doctor know. If you feel tired or hypo after being on your new regime for a few weeks I would increase your levothyroxine to 75 mcg provided your doctor is agreeable.
Thank you for all your replies. I’ve got a range of test results, none of which are ideal and all of which require explanation. So I’ll collate them and post once I’ve managed to get my brood to sleep.
This test was taken in the afternoon during a visit to my Endo and after my usual Levo dose. The following morning I had my usual blood draw and my TSH was 2.12 (0.27 to 4.2) Following this result, levo was increased from 100mg to 125mg daily.
T4 wasn’t tested at this time, but I have had it done more recently and am awaiting the results. The last T4 result I have to show was way back in August last year - 18.1 (12-22).
Endo has prescribed T3 because I am still symptomatic with 125mg levo, particularly in the areas of cognition and also joint pain in my fingers and toes.
I supplement with B-complex, Selenium, Zinc, Vit A, Vit C, Vit D3+k2 , Magnesium, and I have just finished a course of prescribed iron tablets.
I'm afraid this all goes to show that your endo doesn't really know what he's doing. As replies by SlowDragon and I have pointed out, you have to know where your FT4 lies in it's range to know if Levo needs to be reduced. If FT4 is high in range then an intial reduction of 25mcg for a few days (to allow T4 to start leaving your body) should be made, followed by the introductionof 1/4 of a tablet of T3. If your FT4 is only half way through range then you wouldn't need to reduce your Levo. And certainly never a reduction of 75mcg as your endo has suggested, that's sheer madness. Hormones need to be altered slowly and gradually.
Unfortunately, your December thyroid results don't tell us what we need to know, there is FT3 but no FT4 so we can't see how well (or not) you convert T4 to T3, and the test you had done the next day is for TSH only so again it gives no clue as to what you need.
The FT4 test done last August is irrelevant now.
The results for your nutrient tests done in December tell us that even though in range and will satisfy your endo, your level is on the low side. If the unit of measurement is pg/ml or ng/L (both are the same) then it should be at least 550, preferably at the top end of the range. Folate isn't too bad, that's recommended to be at least half way through range. Vit D is recommended to be 100-150nmol/L according to the Vit D Council/Vit D Society, and Ferritin should be half way through range for thyroid hormone to work properly and good conversion to take place. At 39 your ferritin is very low. Your nutrient levels should be optimised before starting T3.
I supplement with B-complex, Selenium, Zinc, Vit A, Vit C, Vit D3+k2 , Magnesium, and I have just finished a course of prescribed iron tablets.
I'm wondering why you're supplementing with Vit A?
How much D3 are you taking?
Have you had ferritin/iron panel retested now you've finished the iron tablets?
I have had some more recent tests done, including T4 and am chasing the results. I’ll update the thread when I get them. I understand these out-of-date results are not very helpful.
Sorry, that was a typo, it was meant to say Vit E.
I’m taking 4000iu D3 but I’ve been sporadic taking these.
The result I posted for ferritin (39) was after I’d finished the course of iron tablets. Prior to that it was 19.
I have had some more recent tests done, including T4 and am chasing the results. I’ll update the thread when I get them.
In that case, if it was me I'd delay starting your T3 until you have those results.
I’m taking 4000iu D3 but I’ve been sporadic taking these.
You need to optimise yor Vit D level, you should really get into the habit of taking them every day, retest in 3 months. Remember to take D3 4 hours away from thyroid meds, same applies for magnesium.
The result I posted for ferritin (39) was after I’d finished the course of iron tablets. Prior to that it was 19.
When your result was 19, did you have an iron panel and full blood count? Was iron deficiency or iron deficiency anaemia diagnosed, or was it just low ferritin? Presumably your GP or endo is happy with 39? It needs to come up considerably.
I had an FBC but not sure about the iron panel. I have a whole suite of results but i don’t have the expertise to know which ones are relevant. Can you give me some guidance here?
As far as I can remember my GP said I was heading towards Iron Deficiency Anaemia.
Suggest you start a new thread with your new blood results as otherwise it won't come up as "fresh" so fewer people will see it - possibly link to this thread when you start the new one...
I really don’t know the answer to that, but my GP and a consultant rheumatologist (who recently ruled out RA) suspected so. It could be related to low vitamin levels - iron and Vit D have been suggested as possible causes.
Mine came on quite suddenly in December. It then progressed to my toes (and occasionally ankles and wrists) I noticed swelling at the base of my fingers after 2 months, fluid retention perhaps? I have no other physical symptoms, the rest of mine are cognitive.
Vitamin D deficiency is frequent in Hashimoto's thyroiditis and treatment of patients with this condition with Vitamin D may slow down the course of development of hypothyroidism and also decrease cardiovascular risks in these patients. Vitamin D measurement and replacement may be critical in these patients.
Evidence of a link between increased level of antithyroid antibodies in hypothyroid patients with HT and 25OHD3 deficiency may suggest that this group is particularly prone to the vitamin D deficiency and can benefit from its alignment.
The results for the tests you’ve just mentioned were all slightly abnormal so I assume I have/had iron deficiency anaemia. Given that my prescription has run out, would you advise I ask for another?
Prescribe all people with iron deficiency anaemia oral ferrous sulfate 200 mg tablets two or three times a day — treatment should continue for 3 months after iron deficiency is corrected to allow stores to be replenished.
Monitor the person to ensure that there is an adequate response to iron treatment.
Click on the link to see the document, also click on the word "Monitor" within the link and read the section "What monitoring is recommended for someone being treated for iron deficiency anaemia?", read the whole of the article, and then you will see whether your doctor has been following the guidelines and remind him of them if necessary.
These findings show that lactose intolerance significantly increased the need for oral T4 in hypothyroid patients.
Guidelines on dose by weight is 1.6mcg levothyroxine per kilo of your weight....yet on 100mcg levothyroxine your high TSH showed you were under treated
Same situation here, I reduced 125mcg levo to 100mcg and added 20T3 in one go(all in the morning) +5mcg T3 in the afternoon. I think it's wrong as the doctor told you.
In the area I live T3 is not prescribed. My Endo in the neighbouring county applied for funding through my GP.
I have been prescribed a short trial, but my Endo made it VERY clear that there are no scientific studies to guarantee it’s efficacy and she wasn’t expecting it to work. But I asked a lot, and eventually she relented.
I haven’t actually started yet, but i can let you know?
my Endo made it VERY clear that there are no scientific studies to guarantee it’s efficacy and she wasn’t expecting it to work.
And the way she has told you to drop Levo dose and start T3 you will probably feel very unwell and then she can say "There, I told you it probably wouldn't work". Please don't do as she says, follow the suggestion we have all made for the best chance of success - optimise those nutrient levels, get new TSH/FT4/FT3 once nutrients are optimal, then post results here for members to suggest whether or not Levo needs reducing before adding T3. It will take time but with the current situation I don't expect you will be given a follow up appointment any time soon, and you can always make an excuse to delay it.
Thank you so much. I was just explaining to my husband that the only useful, helpful information I have received since my diagnosis has been from members here, and I am extremely grateful.
The first set is from March 11, which was an NHS test taken at around 11am after I had taken Levothyroxine first thing in the morning:
TSH 0.39 (0.27-4.2)
T3 4.4 (3.5-6.5)
T4 19.2 (12-22)
This second set is from a finger-prick Medichecks test done before Levothyroxine on Monday:
TSH 0.115 (0.27-4.2)
T3 4.8 (3.1-6.8)
T4 18.4 (12-22)
Medichecks noted on my results that they consider me over-medicated, though I do still have some cognitive symptoms and weight gain.
I have been feeling significantly better in the past few weeks than when T3 was initially prescribed, possibly as a result of iron supplementation. These latest results have shown the only increase in T3 I have ever seen. I have not previously exceeded 4.4.
Given these results, what should I make of my prescription change from 125mg levo to 50mg levothyroxine with 20mg liothyronine?
FT4 shows a false high result due to the fact that you took your Levo beforehand.
Medichecks test done before Levothyroxine on Monday:
TSH 0.115 (0.27-4.2)
T3 4.8 (3.1-6.8) = 45.95% through range
T4 18.4 (12-22) = 64% through range
Medichecks noted on my results that they consider me over-medicated, though I do still have some cognitive symptoms and weight gain.
Medichecks is saying you are overmedicated because your TSH is below range. Unfortunately, they tend to just look at TSH, same as NHS doctors, and ignore the actual thyroid hormone results.
Your Medichecks results are showing that you are undermedicated and that is why you still have symptoms.
The aim of a treated Hypo patient on Levo, generally, is for TSH to be 1 or below with FT4 and FT3 in the upper part of their reference ranges, if that is where you feel well.
If you had come here with just your Medichecks results, we would be saying that they're not too bad and that you needed an increase in your Levo to raise your FT4, which would also raise your FT3, but we'd also be asking if your nutrient levels were optimal because they need to be for any thyroid hormone to work properly and for good conversion to take place.
We already know from a previous reply that in December your nutrient levels were:
B12 443 (211 to 911)
Folate 12 (3.38 to 23.9)
Ferritin 39 (15 to 300) -
Vit D 65 (50 to 374)
These aren't optimal and normal advice here would be to optimise these before starting T3. It's possible that with optimal nutrient levels your thyroid test results on Levo only might be better. What you are aiming for is:
B12 - if the unit of measurement is pg/ml or ng/L then a minimum of 550, preferably around 900-1000. A better test is the Active B12 test (Medichecks do this) which measures just the B12 that is free and active and available to be used by the cells. The Total B12 test which you've had measures both bound and unbound (free) B12. We can have a decent Total B12 level but a poor Active B12 level, so Active B12 is a much better indicator of our B12 status.
Folate - at least half way through range, so 14+ with that range.
Ferritin - half way through range. We already know that you have, or have had, iron deficiency anaemia and your iron panel and full blood count should be repeated to see if this is still a problem and why your Ferritin level is so low.
Vit D - this is recommended to be 125nmol/L according to the Vit D Council and 100-150nmol/L according to the Vit D Society.
So my first thought is that you should optimise all your nutrient levels first, then see where your thyroid results lie, then make the decision as to whether to add T3.
Also bear in mind that you have Hashi's, and this always complicates things as results and symptoms fluctuate with Hashi's activity.
The decision is yours as to whether you start taking the T3. If you do then with your FT4 at only 64% through range there is no need to lower your dose of Levo. Taking T3 is going to lower your FT4 anyway, and if you also lower your Levo this will reduce your FT4 even more. When on combination hormone replacement, it takes a lot of experimenting and tweaking of doses to find where we need our FT4 and FT3 to feel best. Some of us need a highish FT4, some are fine with a lowish FT4. I would also only start with 5mcg T3 because your FT3 is not that low, it's getting on towards half way through range, you may find that you only need a small amount of T3.
You're welcome. It's not an easy decision for you considering that you already have the T3. But I really don't see where your endo was coming from when you were told to reduce your Levo so much. They just don't seem to have much understanding at all, especially about how important optimal nutrient levels are (but then again, they're not taught nutrition so we shouldn't be surprised!). Maybe she really did want you to fail the trial, wouldn't surprise me.
I doubt you'll have a follow up appointment in the near future, so you have plenty of time to sort things out, you can always push back any appointment that does come through if it doesn't suit you to go at that time.
I was hoping you could give me your thoughts on my latest results.
I’ve been on various levels of T4/T3 since we last spoke. I’m currently on 100mcg Levo and 20mcg Lio.
My last test was taken under optimum conditions and had results as follows:
TSH 0.04 (0.27 - 4.2)
T4 14.3 (11.2 - 20.2)
T3 6.5 (3.2- 6.8)
Ferritin 89 (15 - 300)
My cognitive symptoms have improved somewhat, but i’m suffering more than ever with undiagnosed pain. I’m still working on increasing my ferritin.
On the assumption that the pain is in some way thyroid-related (in the absence of alternative diagnosis from rheumatologists, neurologists etc.), would you recommend increasing T4 and decreasing T3 by some amount?
I'm not basing my reply on the pain you are experiencing, as it's undiagnosed it could be caused by anything so I'm not going to link the two and will just go by your results. Please remember I am not medically trained, my reply is based on my own experience only.
Some people on combination thyroid hormone replacement are fine with a low in range FT4 and some of us need it much higher in range, personally I need both FT4 and FT3 fairly well balanced at around 70% through range, so we each have to find our own sweet spot.
If those were my results I'd be reducing the T3 by 5mcg, leave 1-2 weeks then increase Levo by 12.5mcg, retest 6-8 weeks after increasing Levo. I wouldn't increase Levo any more than that at this stage, you need to make small adjustments and give them time to work otherwise you may miss your optimal doses.
Many many years ago I was put onto 60mcg T3 I was at the time taking 250mcg levo. My gp at the time told me to stop the levo and start the T3 the next day. That is exactly what I did the next morning I got up took 60mcg T3. I never felt any ill effects. Over the next few weeks I started to feel well again and have never looked back... I had no racing heart no sweats no issues sleeping, I just went from levo to lio in a day....
Bonkers endocrinologist. As someone else said , maybe he wants you to have a bad reaction. T3 is very rapidly assimilated compared to t4 and exerts it’s thyroidal effects almost instantly so unless your body is actually calling for higher blood levels of ft3 (which it may be, although not that much in one go) this much ft3 is going to be significantly disruptive and probably quite uncomfortable. Ordinarily your body puts about 100 mcg t4 and 5 mcg t3 into your blood stream over 24 hrs so you may be better to aim at that, to start with at least. Try splitting levothyroxine into 2x 50 on retiring and waking and split no more than 5 mcg t3 into 2 doses on waking and mid to late afternoon. See how you go for several weeks. Do not make big changes suddenly, wait and see what happens gradually. T3 is a bastard to dose and my advice is to use as little as possible to ameliorate any ill health or symptoms of hypothyroidism you may be feeling. Levothyroxine may be a bit problematic but it doesn’t kick you around so suddenly as liothyronine and your body needs enough t4 to get into the cells that need to convert it, the cells will signal that conversion to t3 accordingly and if they don’t convert enough for inherent reasons (not supply of t4 issues) then your body will be asking for thyroidal t3, that’s the thing you’re looking to replace with liothyronine and it will seldom if ever put as much ft3 in blood/serum as your endocrinologist prescribed synthetic t3 in one dose!
I am very sensitive to t3 but feel much better if I take just a tiny bit. I only take 4.5 mcg a day and split this into 2 doses! (this is the amount in my 1/2 grain of Naturethroid) I take this with along with Synthroid -
T3 is really really strong- I had chronic chest pain when I was taking too much for my body and felt like I was having a constant anxiety attack- this stuff can really jack you up in a very bad way- you have a very bad doctor.
Hi....you are lucky ot have a specialist who is willing to prescribe it as its a volatile drug and little understood according to mine. Still, that said, when I eventually cajoled him into prescribing it for me (I was desperate as I was putting on weight and had absolutely no energy) I reduced my T4 from 125mcg to 100 and took 20mcg daily. Almost immediately I felt half human again so it was the right call for me. If I forget, I sure know about it within 48 hours, and its back to being a slug again. my personal take on this is that reducing your T4 by 75mcg is a big drop but the reason, my specialist tells me, they are so cautious is that too much can cause a stroke. So don't be Gung ho about it. I personally wouldn't have dropped my T4 dosage that low, but I'm not a specialist. Try the recommended dosage for a week and adjust your T4 upwards in increments for a couple of weeks until you feel well then have a blood test is my advice. Good luck.
I do hope I have a similar experience to you. I can certainly relate to weight gain and low energy. The overwhelming response from most people is that I need to be cautious here, and I intend to be. Thanks for your reply.
Just wanted to say that I'm following your thread with great interest, as I was prescribed T3, just over a year ago, and my GP dropped my levo hugely. I am learning a lot from all these replies, as I'm still confused as to what my levels should be to feel optimal. I don't know what optimal feels like! Good Luck Annaoj - hope you feel well again soon!
Make a chart - It takes a while to get to steady state and equilibrium.
Half life of T3 is about a week and about 4 weeks for T4 so if you’re not careful you’ll have too much for a while. Ask your Pharmacist for help ... and don’t have a blood test too soon !! Six weeks or more .Good Luck
Hello! My doctor started me at 5 mg of t3 and down to 100 of Levo and I had no side affects at all. It was the thing that made a difference in me! I would just do as prescribed! It takes less Levo bc the t3 kicks in and does its job converting it!
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.