Quite pleased with results ( I think) I'm now splitting levo dose and it's making a lot of sense to how I feel , I never thought it through before to split my dose
But Vit D.level is low And yet I take the spray with k2 daily & it's the one I never miss, I take 3000 sometimes two sprays of it
Any thoughts or reminders please to get this UP or is it catch 22 when tsh is too high it affects Vit D level?
I feel more confident now to get the tsh down now I'm splitting as couldn't cope with one big dose, may Be adrenal thing, I don't know?
About adrenals, I'm unsure if saliva test is so telling as different days brings different stress levels, I'm not a creature of habit very much. Do you feel the NHS urine test is reliable enough?
Results
Tsh 4.3
Free T3 4.78 out of 3 to 6.8
Free T4 18.5 out of 12 to 22
No antibodies over range
Ferritin 79 out of 13 to 150 so it's halfway
Folate 14.43 out of 3.88 to 19.4
B12 119 Out of 37.5 to 187
Vit D 59.7 out of 50 to 175!!!
Why is this I wonder and may account for feeling dodgy
Appreciate tsh still high, and bio hormones have risen it a bit, but on plus side it's already come down a bit since splitting levo and getting onto Ioomg
Thanks as usual
Jx
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But Vit D.level is low And yet I take the spray with k2 daily & it's the one I never miss, I take 3000 sometimes two sprays of it
Have you tried a different type of D3 supplement?
I remember one member saying he'd tried the spray and I think he tried softgels as well, but it was only an oil based sublingual D3 liquid that worked for him.
I've always done extremely well with Doctor's Best softgels - just 2 ingredients which are D3 and extra virgin olive oil. Got my severely deficient level of 15 up to 202nmol/L in 2.5 months. I obviously started on what would be loading doses, then reduced to 5,000iu daily which, after experimenting, seems to be my maintenance dose.
BetterYou doesn't describe itself as "sublingual", it is absorbed through the mucous membranes in the oral cavity.
It suits some people and not others, we are all individual, so it can be best for some people and they do very well on it, but not everyone does.
I wont take it because of the additives in it, I prefer as pure and clean a supplement as I can get, not always possible to avoid additives but I do wherever possible.
I have taken various brands of K2 supplement including:
For the treatment of vitamin D deficiency, the recommended treatment is based on fixed loading doses of vitamin D (up to a total of about 300,000 international units [IU]) given either as weekly or daily split doses.
Several treatment regimens are available, including 50,000 IU once a week for 6 weeks (300,000 IU in total), 20,000 IU twice a week for 7 weeks (280,000 IU in total), or 4000 IU daily for 10 weeks (280,000 IU in total).
But loading doses would only be used if Vit D level is less than 25nmol/L.
Once over that level you'd use the suggestions from the Vit D Council to raise your current level to their recommended level. To reach the recommended level from your current level of 59.7nmol/L (23.88ng/ml), based on the Vit D Council's suggestions you could supplement with 3,700iu D3 daily (nearest is 4,000iu)
Once you reach the recommended dose then you'll need a maintenance dose to keep it there, which may be 2000iu daily, maybe more or less, maybe less in summer than winter, it's trial and error so it's recommended to retest once or twice a year to keep within the recommended range. You can do this with a private fingerprick blood spot test with an NHS lab which offers this test to the general public:
Vit D? No, Vit D has categories - Deficient, Insufficient, Sufficient, etc., and each category has a range. I believe the NHS range, for most labs, say that 50-175nmol/L is the range for the Sufficient category.
The Vit D Council recommends a level of 125nmol/L and the Vit D Society, also Grassroots Health, recommend a level of 100-150nmol/L.
Unbelievably its got 3000 on it and you pump it 3 times!!
Well, that's how they market it but they make it very clear on the packaging that you need 3 sprays to give 3,000iu. It does, however, make it versatile and someone who doesn't need 3,000iu can also use it by using the appropriate amount of sprays for their needs.
So i need 4 presses!!
That's correct for 4,000iu.
Nhs lab? Is this in a hospital
It would be in an NHS hospital, certainly. Major NHS hospitals will have their own phlebotomy department and lab. I live in an area where the main hospital is 50+ miles away. We have a cottage/community hospital which is very small and doesn't have a lab. All blood in my area is taken at the GP surgery and picked up every day and taken to the main hospital for testing.
No - there were thought to be three, slightly different, forms of vitamin D. They were named D1, D2 and D3. Then research showed D1 didn't really exist. So we actually have two forms available for supplementing. D2 and D3.
Why do they put D with calcium, does D help it along?🤷♀️ You would think there would be more Instruction to add k2. Wouldn't you!
Also Clients of mine have their levo in blister packs and I'm tired of telling my manager and pharmacist that it would be helpful to instruct them to be taken away from breakfast which is when they are mostly given
It just doesn't work in practice but very frustrating the person isn't getting full benefit
But then I suppose you could say they are getting the dose that the tsh shows up, breakfast or not!
Although again, they don't seem to get annual check ups for this
Why do they put D with calcium, does D help it along?🤷♀️ You would think there would be more Instruction to add k2. Wouldn't you!
Because they think it sells supplements to people who don't know any better. It's all about making money. Vit D aids uptake of calcium from food, so we shouldn't take a calcium supplement in any form unless we have been tested and found to be deficient.
Even doctors tend not to know about K2 as they're not taught much about nutrition.
Also Clients of mine have their levo in blister packs and I'm tired of telling my manager and pharmacist that it would be helpful to instruct them to be taken away from breakfast which is when they are mostly given .... But then I suppose you could say they are getting the dose that the tsh shows up, breakfast or not!
All UK Levo tends to come in blister packs inside a box, and the box should contain a Patient Information Leaflet, and it's the responsibility of the patient to read that leaflet to ensure that it's OK for them to take the medication prescribed and follow the advice regarding how to take it and to check for side effects. If a patient is not capable of doing this for themselves, then hopefully they have someone who can take this responsibility for them. If they do take their Levo too close to eating and absorption is affected, then their test results would show this and the dose they are prescribed would reflect what is needed according to their symptoms and test results.
Although again, they don't seem to get annual check ups for this
Hypo patients should be checked annually. If they are missed, and the patient wants to be tested then they should contact the surgery to arrange it. I didn't get called for 3 years but it didn't bother me because I do private tests to monitor my levels myself. I prefer not to have NHS tests because my GP is TSH obsessed and refuses to acknowledge that FT4 and FT3 are important.
Yes in novice world i guess its all about the tsh which at least gives good indication - so really even taken with a meal, it gives a marker as such ( you would prob just need higher dose)”
Well re my clients getting annual results goes through a net
I tell care mgr but its not her role, and i dont see family to prompt and would seem interphering 🤷♀️
Pls refresh me, is t3 good at two thirds? And am i right thinking t4 can be over top as long as t3 ok?
...the client doesnt see leaflets when they have their blister pack set up so the pharmacy should list the instruction then?
But it would mean having to identify the tablet amongst others ( lady today had a 75 & 25 in her blister with three other tabs! I couldnt have picked the levo out . All were round & white
It sounds like you’re using the BetterYou D3 + K2-MK7. Is that right?
I take this too and it’s worth clarifying the dose. The recommended dose of 3000IU is made up of 3 sprays. If you are only taking 1 spray, you are only getting a dose of 1000IU so, if I’ve understood correctly, you’re only getting 1/3 of the dose you think you are.
The bellow is taken from the BetterYou site for the product, also linked below:
“3 sprays deliver 3000IU (75μg) of vitamin D plus 75μg of vitamin K2”
I have to re-read this occasionally because it’s not the most clear on the product info and, unhelpfully, it’s not on the bottle itself so once this has been binned it needs to be looked up. Hope that answers some questions!
Just to clarify, I’ve had chance to have a look at my bottle and the bottle itself says that the daily recommended dose is 3 sprays. What’s missing is the specific numbers this refers to.
All very confusing really! But the long and short is recommended dose = 3 sprays daily = 3000IU
It’s a bit confusing not having all the info on the bottle. There are a good few supplements that require multiple sprays/tablets to get the recommended dose though. And the recommended dose isn’t always the right dose for everyone! Always worth a good read of the leaflet or jar.
I agree with hjh88 - you have to take 3 sprays of Better You to get 3000 so, if you've only been taking 1 spray, sometimes 2, you haven't been taking enough. Try that first before you ditch it 😊
Prob best to take vitamin d and k a few hours apart per below.
Consumerlab: “Large doses of vitamin E may antagonize vitamin K, making it less effective (Traber, Nutr Rev 2008), and there is potential concern about other fat-soluble vitamins. A laboratory experiment using intestinal cells from mice found that uptake of vitamin K was reduced by approximately half by vitamins A, D, and E — likely due to competition for absorption among these fat-soluble vitamins (Goncalves, Food Chem 2015). Interestingly, vitamin K did not significantly reduce uptake of the other fat-soluble vitamins. While there do not appear to be studies demonstrating reduced vitamin K absorption in people due to vitamin D, it may be best to take vitamin K at least 3 hours apart from vitamin D and not from "bone health" formulas (such as many in this review) which include vitamin D. Keep in mind that such formulas are rarely clinically tested in people for ingredient absorption, let alone for efficacy and safety.”
The Gonclaves article cited above: Fat-soluble vitamin intestinal absorption: absorption sites in the intestine and interactions for absorption -
Thankyou very much asidist quite comprehensive and interesting. Il read again later to absorb, Nothing straight forward, I'd love to take a multimineral and be done with it 🙃
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