I started Thyroid yesterday 30 mg and I feel awful. Kind of weird. A bit nauseous and funny head and shaky legs. Is this common for starting out. I know that normally we don’t have the T3
Side effects starting on Thyroid. : I started... - Thyroid UK
Maybe too much too soon !
What do you mean by ‘thyriod’? Do you mean you’ve added T3?
Thyroid is the name of the med. I think it’s a dumb name because it’s confusing at times. It an NDT. Yes it has T3? First time I’ve taken it.
If it's NDT, it's likely to have one of ERFA, Armour, WP or NP in front of Thyroid.
Do you mean Thiroyd? This is a make of NDT.
Your taking far too much too soon, if this is the first time you have taken some thyroid medication with T3 in it, you need to increase it slowly.
When I was on Levothyroxine and stopped, I didn’t take the equivalent of NDT straight away, I started very slowly.
No, Thyroid. by Efra Thank you so much for answering me. I’m going crazy here. My naturopath was going to call me yesterday to talk about how to take it and never did. Now it’s Sundsy so she isn’t there. I wasn’t given any information and want warned not to take it all at once which I did. What do you recommend. I need advise soon. So agitated feeling.
Firstly don’t panic, from your posts your panicking.
T3 is stronger than T4, but, short lived in the body than T4, no wonder you feel like you do with 1 grain (60mg) that’s too much to introduce when you have never had T3 before.
I suspect your heart rate was fast as well, if I have too much T3 I’m jittery too.
This is what I would advise, others on here my disagree, but, it worked for me, you may feel awful, but, don’t be tempted to increase your dosage because of this ride it out. If you increase too fast you will miss your sweet spot, as in your right dosage.
You can either start this tomorrow or give it a miss tomorrow and start Tuesday.
Take 1/2 grain (cut your tablet in half) = 30mg on waking, don’t have any breakfast for about an hour.
For example: you could take it at 6am then go back to sleep then have breakfast at 7am, this depends on your daily routine.
Stick to 1/2 grain for 3 weeks, then increase by a further 1/2 grain after this, but, take the extra 1/2 grain in the afternoon on an empty stomach, this way your spreading your T3 dosage out.
If you feel jittery, then instead of 1/2 grain in the afternoon then cut the 1/2 grain again, to 1/4 grain, then maybe after 2 weeks, increase another 1/2 grain to your morning dosage, and after 2 weeks increase your afternoon dosage by 1/2 grain, if too much then only increase by 1/4 grain.
Keep an eye on your symptoms, keep a diary of your symptoms, pulse, if your jittery etc etc.
Many people take there NDT in 2 or 3 dosages a day, some can tolerate it all in one go, I can’t, my heart races and I get jittery, it’s the T3.
I take 1 grain at 6am and 1 grain at 2pm, I can’t take anymore NDT than this despite me trying, I get all sorts of nasty symptoms. They say blood tests aren’t relevant when on NDT you go by your symptoms, but, when I had symptoms I wanted to know.
When I did a blood test it showed my T3 was over range hence why I felt jittery and anxious, so I reduced my NDT and added a little T4.
Nothing is written in stone, everyone is different, don’t get impatient as it can back fire.
Are you in the UK?
Have you tested cortisol and vitamin levels? Do you have Hashimotos?
Forget to add, don’t take your Levothyroxine as well as your NDT, stick to one only first.
I stopped my Levothyroxine for two days then introduced NDT as per the advice I’ve already posted, you will feel terrible as your body will need more NDT than your giving it, but take it SLOWLY I can’t say that enough.
Anymore blood tests you have while on NDT leave an 8-10 hour gap after taking NDT before taking your bloods.
As said many say bloods are irrelevant on NDT you keep increasing until your symptoms go, this didn’t work for me.
First off I’m in Canada. I have been prescribed a total of half a grain. So I will try 1/4 tomorrow maybe twice a day. I don’t want to suddenly only get just 30 mcg after being on 75 for five years.
Yes I have Hashimotos.
I’m planning on getting my Vit levels tested but feel they will be ok because take supplements in D and B12. I never knew there was a test for cortisol. Is there on for adrenals?
I’m not even going to talk about my free T3 after all the controversy it caused. I doted it was 13.8 and was told that was impossible. I finally took a photo of the results
Just reread your post. No, I’m only on half a grain.
I laughed when you mentioned fast HR. I had a stress test on Friday and before it began I stood up from lying down and my HR went to 168! I had worn a holter 24 hour monitor and it snowed that this happens all day long. I stand and it really spiked. I feel
Partly like this is caused by the thyroid but certainly not all because I have been in meds for it for over 30 years. It has never been this bad but neither have I. Bad but not this bad.
Your information is not consistent and I’m getting very confused, apologies.
You say you have been prescribed 1/2 a grain? NDT comes in 1 grains, unless you cut them in half or it’s different in Canada? yet in your post you said you took 1 grain did you take 2 x 1/2 grains of NDT?
You then said you don’t think your on Levothyroxine anymore, in a reply to another post you made?
“. I don’t take my Synthroid now as far as I know”
I would forget the Levothyroxine and stick to NDT and follow the advice I gave, remember slow, I know your desperate to feel well, I was too we are all in the same position, but you don’t want to miss that sweet spot.
Vitamins, iron and ferritin is important as well.
As you have Hashimotos you need to try going on a strictly gluten free diet this will help with your antibodies.
Best wishes & good luck.
Erfa Thyroid tablets come in 30, 60 and 125 mg size tablets and the amounts of T4/T3 are slightly different from the US brands:
30 mg tablet = 18 mcg. of T4 and 4 mcg. of T3
60mg tablet (1 grain) = 35 mcg. of T4 and 8 mcg. of T3
125 mg tablet = 73 mcg. of T4 and 17 mcg. of T3
Thanks for letting me know, I wondered if it was different in Canada which I think I asked.
Hopefully the OP will start to see some improvements on NDT.
I just read your post and yes, I cut that in half. Not using grains here in Canada I too get confused.
What does OP stand for?
I took the Levo this morning plus 1/4 grain of the NDT. I was as sick feeling last night as when I was on chemo two years ago and then I ended up in the hospital for a week. I don’t think I it was the DNT. I think it was the small amount. Not enough T4 and all the other stuff that’s in Levo.
My naturopath isn’t in today so I can’t call to see what she has to say.
OP (original post)
My advice was not to take your Levothyroxine as well as NDT.
You need to take one or the other if your starting from scratch.
Then you can tweak it later with maybe adding T4.
You may find your having too much T4 if you take your NDT as well as your Levothyroxine.
It’s ultimately up to you what you do and what advice you take.
Did you just take 30mg of natural desiccated thyroid this morning in one go? What about the Levo you were taking, how much of that did you take?
People were talking to you earlier in the week about the need to be slow and low with adding the T3. You make it sound here like you just took a whole tablet in one go?
Please explain in detail what you took on Friday (normal) and then what you took yesterday and today (Sunday).
Read what I had written to Peanuts1 yes, all in one go. I was told what was considered slow. Not happy with that at all. No Levo. I wasn’t told if I was to take it as well.
Here is the story. I didn’t understand about T3 (no surprise there because we all know what’s drs are like regarding thyroid issues) I thought it was a bad reaction to Synthroid after years of taking it. I begged for the NDT. I had stoped the Synthroid for a day, then back in one day, then off for two. This included Friday. Saturday I took the 30 and the same today. My legs were very shaky and my head was very lightheaded. I am agitated too.
I would really appreciate your thoughts on how to take it. The naturopath isn’t obviously going to be if much help. I should add that I haven’t physically seen her for all this. It was a phone consult.
I don't know about Erfa NDT, I'm puzzled as to what the 30mg means. NDT is usually referred to as 'grains'.
You have gone about this all wrong I think. Fortunately the half life of T3 is short so you will soon be back to a better place. But you can't go about it like this. I don't think you can switch from Levo to NDT without you understand what you are doing and how to do it. I've never done it so I can't advise. But Stop the Thyroid Madness web site will be able to give you advice that you need. stopthethyroidmadness.com
Tomorrow don't take any T3 and but take your Levo instead. You will have to stick with the Levo until you know what you are doing and able to make the transition safely. Read every word of that web site I've listed. And if you can, buy the book too and read that. You might feel a bit wobbly for a day or so but should be back on an even keel soon and better able to work out what you need to do.
Ask here too. You won't get so many answers at the weekend though.
Yes your right NDT is measured in grains, but, 1 grain = 60mg but works out at around 38mcg of T4 & 9 mcg of T3 in 1 grain.
Different NDT brands can vary with the T4/T3 content.
It’s gets confusing mg & mcg
Thank you. In Canada we don’t use grains. I never heard of that until I came in this site. I will get the book ASAP. I think a grain is around 60 mcg. Different people on here have different ideas but roughly.
30 is 1/2 grain. Bottle calls 1 grain 60 mg
I meant that to say that I wasn’t told how to take it. I really would appreciate advise on how to do it. Not just being told to go slow. That is too vague for me. Sorry. And thanks in advance.
What a happy Fathers Day this is turning out to be. We have a 29 foot fifth wheel that my husband towed to go on his fishing trip. So much work getting it to get it ready. I mean a few weeks. He pulled away all happy at ten AM and by 10:40 he had called to say he was coming home because of brake failure. Turns out he blew? something called a caliber Whatever that is. Sad ending to an up day. He was so excited. Life sucks at times doesn’t it. I’m trying not to cry or be upset which is hard for me because he doesn’t need that!
When I changed to NDT I followed the protocol in STTM-Stop The Thyroid Madness book. It's too long ago not for me to remember in great detail but it might be something you can ask Google. One important thing though is to realise that things in our Thyroid world work very slowly so patience is needed so a lot of time wspent waiting for things to happen. If we try to rush things then we are often back to square one because we can't rush things and most probably have to start again. So changing medication for example could take several months to do the transition then be one the new dose for 6 months before you can test. I applaud your enthusiasm but don't get too carried away, read all about how things work and ask for help if you don't understand.
Thank you. I don’t think it’s enthusiam. I put it down to ignorance. I strongly feel that the naturopath that prescribed it was very remiss in not telling me how to take it or warm me about possible side effects. And to add insult to injury it cost me $170 to finally get the prescription. I have now lost faith in one more medical person.
Sorry just been reading through the thread again and yes, you haven't been prepared for this. Maybe your expert isn't up to speed either. I didn't want to go into too much detail as well as I changed 4 years ago so memory could be a bit hazy so recommended where I got the basics from. One think that I don't think is stressed as much as it should is the Levo you have been taking for a while and that will have built up a store in your body. So we stop the Levo so one day is the last day of the Levo and the next day the dirstvif the new medication. So yes we start small but have a store of Levo to top it up so we are getting used to the T3 in a small amount and as we sminceeae then the Levo in the old regime is decreasing. So in theory we aren't aware we are taking a smaller amount but as you work through it the emphasis is moving over from the old to the new so you technically aren't under medication. Being a cautious person I went a little bit slower and I had a coulpe ofcdays in the middle where I felt a little more tired.
But I overmedicated! So unlike me but I got up to theee freains but had stopped noticing I was feeling better though wasn't feeling worse either. I'd gone from 2 grains to 3 in quarters as recommended so convusesxne a little.
When I decided to make the switch though I planned it around my already booked Endocrinologist appointment so I left asis and went to the hospital for my blood tests and returned for my appointment the following week. I wasovermedicated as I'd started to realise and he said straight away to from down to 1.75 which I though was a lot but he was spot on! So I know take 1.75 2days and 1.50 on the third then repeat. I was taking 100/125 mcg Levo and I know we shouldn't really compare them but sometimes it's useful to look at the comparison. Be aware as well that results are read differently on any form of T3 so best to post your first set of results and ranges and you will get replies on your progress. You probably realise now it's important to say exactly what you are doing as it can be dangerous for us to be guessing without all the facts and your feelings as well. You will soon learn how you feel when resultsxare good and that will help you in the future to know when to get bloods done again.
Thank you. What you say makes sense. Do you remember what does you originally started out with? How fast you increased. I guess we all have our sweet spot. I had skipped my Levo 3 times the week before I stopped as an experiment. I wanted to see if it was the med itself rather than the dose. Don’t know how much Levo was in my body then.
How are you feeling now. I feel a lot of time like there’s no hope.
Silverfox. After all my deliberations I’ve just decided to reduce to 1.75. Like you my Levo dose was 100/125 and I’ve fathomed that 1.75 grains will be about 115 in equivalence. I’m also going to follow advice on this forum about how I feel and not the wretched numbers.
Do I understand correctly that you, having been diagnosed with Hashimoto's as early as 30 years ago, and having been consistently taking 75mcg of levothyroxine (synthetic T4; name brand or generic) daily for the past 5 years, you stopped taking it for some 3 of the previous 4 days and then took 1/2 grain (30mcg) of NDT on the fifth and sixth days?
And, having taken 75mcg of T4 for at least 27 of the previous 30 days upon taking the 30mcg of the natural desiccated thyroid replacement for two consecutive days, you experienced symptoms of overmedication?
You have taken too much to start with, one quarter or a half would have been a good idea and then increase every two weeks.
She’s only had 1/2 grain Jean
Yes, just 1/2 grain. My prescription is for 8 weeks at that dose, with one prescription repeat. That is nowhere near by original 75 mcg which upsets me. The one who prescribed it isn’t in her office today either for me to ask her what she is intending.
As Silverfox said, while it isn’t always sensible to try to calculate exact equivalence, it often helps to have a working guide.
Your 1/2 grain (30 mg) of Erfa contains the equivalence of about 30 Synthroid. . You’ve been used to 75 Synthroid if I’ve understood.
That doesn’t matter. Your body will be living off your existing store of T4. As that goes down, the T4 in the Erfa will be replacing it. You’ll also have the benefit of the much faster acting T3.
You will need to raise that 1/2 grain or you’ll be under medicated. You can’t stay on that for 8 weeks. Raise gradually by 1/4 grain every fortnight. You have to do it slowly or the T3 - which you’re not used to - will hit you like a tonne of bricks - as it has done already.
You’ll probably find that by the time you get to 1.25 grains you’re optimally medicated. Blood tests (with FT3 tested as well) will indicate. Go by how you feel too. This can’t be an exact science.
Don’t panic about being under medicated. You won’t be because your T4 levels are reducing slowly and keeping you going until your increases are complete.
Thanks for this. It makes sense. I will wait until I see the naturopath and see what she has in mind. The trouble is I have a very caring husband who is desperate to help me and he is giving advise too he says to stay in the Synthroid as well as the NDT. I feel
at times like I’m being pulled in too many directions. Ken, the dr, the naturopath and now suggestions ( that I welcome) on here.
Omg. Don’t stay on the Synthroid and take the NDT. You’ll be flying across the Atlantic without a plane. Lol
By the way where are you in Canada. I visit Port Dover in Ontario where I have relatives. What a wonderful country 😊
Thank you. I love Canada of course and it is wonderful but England is my next favourite country. Dad was a scouser. Lots of relatives there that we used to visit yearly until I got so sick.
I live in Vancouver I think it’s the third best country in the world according to a yearly survey.
I am calling the naturopath tomorrow.
Good luck. Hope you’re well soon x
I was on Armour Thyroid for a few yrs and loved it. I had a hard time getting it in the UK so switched to Thyroid-S I felt like that whenever I increased my dosages on both meds. It only lasted 3-4 days.
I'm getting blood work tomorrow and see doc next week. I feel good so will see what labs say.
I was for most of my life but I'm back in the UK now.
Can I ask why you went from Levothyroid to NDT? I switched from .88 mcg Levothroid (a generic brand name for levothyroxine) with one 5mcg pill of T3 (liothyronine) and then I went to 75 mcg of T4 and 10 mcg of T3 and then kept adding T3 in small 5mcg amounts until I felt it was an optimum dose and am now on 50 mcg, of T4 and 30mcg of T3. The thing is that T4 is an inactive hormone and simply turns into T3, the active hormone of Liothyronine, after entering the bloodstream and going through your liver. Many knowledgeable patients, doctors, nurses, etc. believe that Levothyroid has been overproduced, oversold and way overpraised and overpriced for a product that is nothing more than an overpriced pill that is supposed to cure hypothyroidism but does not, in the end. That said, I fared fairly well on it for about 30 years but I always had symptoms of cold hands and feet and many other symptoms that, I now believe, should have been cured with the right dose, which should have included T3. I stayed on one dose of .88 mcg of Levothyroid for 30 years because “educated” doctors with MD degrees, in general practice's, were taught in medical schools by teachers who used medical textbooks printed by pharmaceutical conglomerates who actually printed and donated these textbooks to the med schools that praised the T4 pill that made their Big Pharm scientists, doctors, salesmen, etc, etc., etc. very wealthy. Anyway, NDT is something that should be taken, I personally believe, only after trying T4-alone, T4 & T3 together and T3 alone. Now, you may not fare well on any of those and, then, I believe you would be a good (better) candidate for NDT. The only reason I say this is because NDT is not prescribed by many doctors and is beginning to be considered out of date and hard to get as more endo's refuse to believe it's legitimacy. This is just a thought, I claim no knowledge beyond that of a doctor, nurse, patient or anyone else and I have no legitimate claim as an expert whatsoever. I am just a patient who wants to see others (patients) get well asap. Peace be with you and may you find your optimum dose and feel better soon.
Sorry. I sent it to myself rather than you and didn’t feel like retuning. Can you see it ok because zzzIm not finished andwering
They are having trouble with the photos or names being mixed up. So I hope this gets to you. Hmmm. You have given me food for thought here. No one (medical) have ever told me about taking them individually. I think this might be my answer. Thank you so much! I see the naturopath tomorrow so I’m going to ask her what she thinks.How do you feel now? Good I hope.
I feel great(er) than when I was on T4 alone and never realized for nearly 30-years that I was under-medicated because the GP's relied solely on the TSH score and I was so uneducated about my thyroid dose I completely relied on the GP's and our false beliefs about putting them on a pedestal. Now, I believe the only pedestal I would put them on is one in a cage-full of lions and tigers. I would only that too much of anything can be as bad as not enough, so watch yourself closely. I have taken to a habit of recording my basal metabolic temp's. These are, basically, your temperature while sleeping or upon first awakening. Mine were always low but I was a professional athlete for 10 years so I was used to it but they down to a low of 93 and 94 and I (always) felt (along with ice-cold hands and feet) something wasn't quite right. My temp's, since T3 addition, have been low of 97, high of 98.2. My average is about 97.7, on the low end but still good enough to make me feel very "normal" My pulse is low of 58-64, high of 78, so good and my blood pressure is average 116/70, so good also. I have few, if any headaches and I workout and sweat everyday, average workout time 1-2 hours. BTW T3 is also good for the heart. It will probably be trial and error for you but hang in; it will be well worth it. I lived in Vancouver, B.C. for seven years, in the 70's and loved everything about EXCEPT the rain. I (am) was a carpenter. Peace be upon you and good luck with your trial(s)
Are you a guy? Just wondering. Can’t be sexist and assume because you’re a carpenter that you are lol. My neice is a heavy duty mechanic.
Wow. You sound very active. I’m a slug but I’m almost 71and that’s my excuse. Actually this darn thyroid thing is. I get so tired just unloading the dishwasher. I want me w edgy back.
Why do people take their temperature? I’ve read other people do to. If I do what am I looking for. How to close to 98.6 I am? Maybe I’ll try it.
I’m seeing the naturopath tomorrow with my list of questions. I’m going to ask about taking T3 and T4 on it’s own.
Where in Vancouver did you live? We live by Marine Drive and Victoria Drive. Do you know where that is.
I lived in "downtown Vancouver, on Barclay Street, right across from the (now long torn-down) YMCA. After my wife had our first two children, we moved to West Vancouver and I had to cross Lions Gate Bridge to get back to a large job in the downtown area building a Mall there. It was just across from a small restaurant "The Gisella Restaurant," where my wife worked at that time. I spent 7 years there and loved it. I was a member of the Carpenter's Union and everything was paid for, the government actually sent me checks for both my children to help on their care and the dentist and eyeglasses, contact lenses, were all paid for, from $6 a month union dues. Of course single-payer health care helped tremendously; something Donald Trump, who thinks only of HIMSELF, knows nothing of but speaks as if it would totally ruin this country. If the guy's I.Q. was 2-points higher he'd be a baloney sandwich.
You take your temperature to see if you're healthy. It should be between 97.7 and 98.3 to be "normal." Those with hypothyroidism usually have very low temperatures and cold hands and feet, among many other symptoms.
Women, all women who have children, get hypothyroidism but it goes away, except for those it doesn't "go away" in, of course, and that's why more women get thyroid problems than men.
I am a man and am 73-years old. I don't believe in women carpenters. I boxed pro for 10 years and I also don't believe in women boxers.
Glad to read you are getting your head around it more-it can be very confusing at first plus it's better to be slightly under medicated than over when you are trying to find your sweet spot. At least you get some practice in at listening to what your body is telling you! T3 can hit your body like a sledge hammer if too much to soon and the last thing you want is to be put off something when you are trying to improve things. Write things down, I wish I had started that sooner but I have an app on my phone to record my weight onto and then in my notes I have a page that I record the date, dose, a gap and then the basal temp at the other end so I have a space in the middle to put in any problems so I can keep things static, keep a visual check on my weight asxutsxeasy to eat too much ofcthe wrong things and then to try and blame that on being hypo plusxi can add in any probs, latest being I completely forgot to take my meds! Not quite lostcthe plot but it was the day for testing bloods so set off at crack of dawn as travel 20+ miles to hospital and medication and a bottle of water in my bag. Got there, queued for bloods and out again about 7.40am then sat down in waiting area, drank my water and then at bedtime realised I hadn't got out my pill cutter for the following morning and found meds in it! Whoops, find hospitals stressful so blaming that!
Can't remember whether I've already mentioned this and eyes closing but as you may have seen the forum is run by Thyroid U.K. So well worth looking on their site. Lots of info you may find useful!
Wow. Just give me a minute to reread this.
First off I decided to switch for two reasons. First is that I feel my dose of 75mcg isn’t correct for me and my GP refused to even consider upping it. Second, because of my intolerance to most meds, I wanted to see if it was the drug itself, rather than the dose.
I’m confused or more likely ignorant. Can you take just T4 or T3 by itself? I know know that people buy just T3 but didn’t know about T4 .
I used to have T4 on prescription. In the U.K. it's not easy to get anything else unless you can prove a clinical need for it. You can find ways of buying both and doing it along but I wouldn't recommend that. Two reasons-many are happy with just T4 but often have a doctor who keeps them on too low a dose so they never feel reel well and T3 is extremely expensive to buy in the UK so many don't alwaysxhave the means to do that. Plus there are something you can test of T4 but you can't once T3 is added. Another thing doctors don't always pick up on and testing often doesn't know the labs are often only testing TRH and some add in FT4 but not everyone converts the inactive T4 to the active T3 plus to see it in the results it is essensial to test both FT3 and FT4 and the comparison shows how good you are at converting. Once you add in T3 to yourcmedication then results are read differently as only the FT3 is accurate and FT4 can drop in its range so it could be anywhere so can't be relied on to sort out conversion issues.
So my firstcbit of advice would be to start of T4 and learn to listen to you body-hiwxto recognise taking too much or too little and what conversion is like. Then I would only add in T3 if there was a clinical need and then itsxa lot of learning to get the best dose. T3 is added very slowly and a low dose as it takes time to get used to it. Do one has to slowly build that up reducing some T4 at the same time so as not to be over medicated. So it can be a big step to take and a learning curve.
Forgot the last bit-yes people do take T3 on their own but only if they can't tolerate the T4. As I've said previously most take T4 but may add in T3, the amount could vary depending on results etc
I see they are still having problems with the site. It say reply to me instead of you so I hope you see this.
I am off to the naturopath in a bit so will see what she has to say. My concern is that if she keeps me on my present dose of half a grain that my TSH number will drop too low. Half a grain is nowhere near my current dose of 75 which I think is still too low. My TSH is 3.61 and everyone in here thinks that’s too high.
You said some people can’t afford T3. I thought your NH? (National Health) paid for your meds. How does it work? Here we get something called Pharmacare I think but you have to be in a low income to really benefit. We thankfully have never had to use it. I remember when I lived in Devon England for six months and even my dental work was paid for. No wonder it got in trouble. Crazy.
NHS are't keen on NDT-probably because it's expensive and Endo's have to prove its needed so we are a country that's struggles as not many doctors around now who are familiar with working with NDT so it's usually a private prescription and so we have to pay. You are right that the NHS is stretched and thanks to this forum many have been helped by others who have more personal experience. So that's why we have to do our research aswell. Not many around today who can help us