Vitamin b12 dosage confusion

[dizzy1979]

Hi guys I am low on b12 and have been taking adeno b12 since October it’s 3000mcg per tablet but my b12 is still low. I couldn’t get them this month and so brought igennus super b complex just looked at the back and don’t understand the nutritional info at all? Can someone help? How many tablets would equate to the 3000mcg I was previously on? Are these the total wrong tablets? I don’t want to open them if I’ve got the wrong ones.

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

dizzy1979

Igennus Super B is a B Complex which contains all of the B vitamins. (You neeed to take a B Complex when taking B12 to balance all the B vitamins.) Your original supplement - the adeno B12 - was purely B12 on it's own.

If you took enough of the Igennus Super B to equal the 3000mcg B12 of your other supplement, then you would need 6.6 tablets.

Igennus suggests a serving of 2 tablets which gives 900mcg B12. So you would need six and a half Igennus tablets to give you as near as possible to the 3000mcg you've been taking. HOWEVER, this would give you far too much of the other B vitamins so it's not a good idea.

I think you should be looking into why 3000mcg adeno B12 hasn't helped. What is your new B12 level that reflects what you're taking?

I am puzzled why you think you need it though. From your previous post, your B12 level was

Vit b12 604ng/ml (187.00-883.00) - ng/L is the same as pg/ml

and this isn't low and a B12 supplement wasn't suggested by SlowDragon when she replied to your other post. Taking a good B Complex should have raised your B12 without the need for supplementing separately.

According to an extract from the book, "Could it be B12?" by Sally M. Pacholok:

"We believe that the 'normal' serum B12 threshold needs to be raised from 200 pg/ml to at least 450 pg/ml because deficiencies begin to appear in the cerebrospinal fluid below 550".

"For brain and nervous system health and prevention of disease in older adults, serum B12 levels should be maintained near or above 1000 pg/ml."

So you are above the 550 threshold and if you wanted to get near 1000 then a good B Complex should do that. Before I knew about that book and the recommended level, I raised mine from 651ng/L to 1342ng/L in 3 months by taking 1 x 1000mcg methylcobalamin daily, then stopped because I obviously didn't need it and was wasting my money. I now maintain my level, and folate level, by taking 1 x Thorne Basic B daily.

Have you been taking anything to raise your folate and Vit D levels, these were pointed out to you and it's important to improve them. Folate should be at least half way through range and for Vit D the Vit D Council recommends a level of 125nmol/L and the Vit D Society recommends a level of 100-150nmol/L.

If you post your latest results for all your vitamins, we can comment further.

[dizzy1979 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you for your reply, I was advised on a Facebook thyroid forum that I follow that my b12 was still low? My brain fog makes this difficult to get my head round everything. Your explination makes perfect sense though, I will switch to the recommended dose of the ingennus and hopefully that will work better then just the adeno b12. I have started taking the oral vid d spray by better you DLux100 once a day, and I also take magnesium Malate daily. Do you recommend anything else?

I have recently switched to thiroyd from Thailand after many years on thyroxine, so am a bit all over the place adjusting, but will go for new blood tests in 6-8 weeks and will have everything re checked then.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to dizzy1979]

I have started taking the oral vid d spray by better you DLux100 once a day, and I also take magnesium Malate daily. Do you recommend anything else?

I think that might be DLux 1000.

How many sprays do you take, total amount of D3 daily?

With a Vit D level of 44nmol/L (17.6ng/ml), the Vit D Council suggests that to reach their recommended level then to take 4,900iu daily - you'd have to take 5000iu.

vitamindcouncil.org/i-teste...

Retest after 3 months, adjust dose then if necessary. Once you've reached the recommended level you'd need to find your maintenance dose by trial and error.

Does the DLux spray contain K2 as well as D3? If not then you need K2-MK7 (unless you take a blood thinner, then you'd have to research to decide if it's OK for you to take the K2).

D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems such as hardening of the arteries, kidney stones, etc.

D3 and K2 are fat soluble so should be taken with the fattiest meal of the day, D3 four hours away from thyroid meds if taking tablets/capsules/softgels, no necessity if using an oral spray.

What's your ferritin level like? It needs to be at least 70 for thyroid hormone to work.

When you do your new tests, leave off the NDT for 8-12 hours before the blood draw (not the 24 hours, that's just for Levo). And don't take your B complex for 7 days before the test, it contains Biotin and that affects the results.

[dizzy1979 in reply to SeasideSusie]

yes sorry DLux 1000 was typing from phone whilst supposed to be working! i have only been taking 1 spray per day as the box suggests, but clearly i need to increase this from what you suggest, how many sprays would be appropriate? it doesn't have any k2 on the ingredients or packaging, so I am assuming it is just Vit D? Im sorry I am so unknowledgable on this matter, I have been hypo for at least 19 years and just gone along with the gp saying that I just need to change levo levels to feel well, BUT am unable to recall a time where I felt well, so have started the transition to self medicating with a hope of one day not feeling like a neurotic hypocondriact with all my complaints.

[dizzy1979 in reply to dizzy1979]

What's your ferritin level like? It needs to be at least 70 for thyroid hormone to work.

I've no idea it wasn't checked in October.

When you do your new tests, leave off the NDT for 8-12 hours before the blood draw (not the 24 hours, that's just for Levo). And don't take your B complex for 7 days before the test, it contains Biotin and that affects the results.

This is very informative thank you i will stop B12 one week before next blood test - thank you. I take my ndt at 6.30 am so I will be fine to just miss the day of the bloods.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to dizzy1979]

Im sorry I am so unknowledgable on this matter

Don't worry, we all have to start at the beginning, and members here will be happy to help.

OK, I've had a look at the DLux 1000 and it says

•Each spray delivers 1000IU (25μg) of bioavailable vitamin D

so for now it would be advisable to increase to 5 sprays per day.

Remember to retest in 3 months, come back with your new level and I can suggest what you can change your dose to.

There is no K2 included in that particular spray so you'll need to supplement that separately. It's not a cheap supplement but here are two that I've used and are good:

Healthy Origins softgel bigvits.co.uk/product/vitam...

[Economy size works out a bit cheaper, but you might want to try it first by buying the small bottle

amazon.co.uk/Vitamin-MK-7-N... ]

This is what I currently use and prefer

Vitabay Organic drops amazon.co.uk/Vitamin-K2-Liq...

Again, cheaper if you buy the larger size.

K2-MK7 is fat soluble so should be taken with dietary fat, but both these contain oil (olive oil) so that contributes to it's absorption, so maybe just take the softgel with a full fat yogurt, the Vitabay liquid you'd be fine just taking the drops on their own.

[dizzy1979 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you so much. Your a Star ⭐️

[dizzy1979 in reply to dizzy1979]

OK, I've had a look at the DLux 1000 and it says

•Each spray delivers 1000IU (25μg) of bioavailable vitamin D

so for now it would be advisable to increase to 5 sprays per day.

Shall i take these at the same time or spread throughout the day?

[Gambit62 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Seaside Susie - If I have read the label properly a tablet contains 900ug of B12 - so 3 tablets = 2700ug and 4 = 3600ug. So 3-4 is the dose required to get 3000ug

The tablets also contain 20mg of B6 - high doses of B6 taken regularly have been linked to neurotoxicity which generally reverses but in some patients taking doses over 100mg per day stopping supplementation has not stopped the neurological problems - as such I wouldn't advise anyone to take more than 5 of the tablets per day ... and even then 1 tablet is over the recommended upper daily limit in the UK.

Dizzy1979, please note there is a specific forum on HU dealing with B12 deficiency -

healthunlocked.com/pasoc

Supplementing with high dose B12 tablets isn't something I would recommend unless you are sure that you have a B12 problem. There are a lot of myths about 'optimal' serum B12 levels that seem to be based on taking information relating to people who have been treated for a B12 absorption problem with B12 injections (something that significantly impacts on the normal range used in the general population). So, it is applying a range that is applicable to a very narrow population to the whole population which is at best bad logic.

[dizzy1979 in reply to Gambit62]

Thank you for your reply, I didn’t get the jist that seaside susie was imply I should take 5 tablets nearly she was answering my uninformed question of how many of the new tablets would I need to take to equate to the old tablets, but her explanation of having all the other vitamins addressed to help along with the b12 seemed adequate enough and would explain why my b12 levels are still low after months on the higher dose alone. I am still extremely new to taking supplements and wouldn’t ever just go above and beyond the recommend dosage on packaging without lots of research. I will have a look later at the link you have provided. Thank you again.

[Gambit62 in reply to dizzy1979]

your levels as reported in this thread are not low.

taking other vitamins and minerals does not affect your ability to absorb B12 in the gut - though it may affect how efficiently your cells use the B12 if you are deficient in those particular co-factors.

B12 is unusual among the B vitamins in that it is stored in good quantities in the liver and those stores are used to maintain serum levels at the point that is appropriate to you. As you will notice on the tests there is a huge range where B12s may be maintained and different people will have different ranges. Generally any excess (over the level that is right for you) will be filtered out by your kidneys. The only way of raising serum levels is by putting B12 in faster than it can be removed/added to stores. B12 isn't toxic but having high serum B12 levels can cause problems in some people affecting how efficiently the transfer from your blood to your cells goes - which is why the range in people who have had B12 injections is very different from that in the normal population.

Unless you had falling levels prior to the supplementation, are highly symptomatic of B12 deficiency (and can rule out undertreatment of thyroid problem as a cause for symptoms that are very similar I would suggest you dropped stop worry about your raising your levels - you could monitor for an absorption problem, which would show as significant (>20% falls in test results) from a baseline taken 6 months after stopping the supplementation.

[dizzy1979 in reply to Gambit62]

That’s very informative thank you.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Gambit62]

Gambit62

Seaside Susie - If I have read the label properly a tablet contains 900ug of B12 - so 3 tablets = 2700ug and 4 = 3600ug. So 3-4 is the dose required to get 3000ug

No, each tablet doesn't contain 900mcg B12. I know that supplement quite well.

It says "Adults - take 1 tablet twice daily"

Then further down the label it gives the values

"2 Tablets................. per serving

B12.............................900mcg

[Gambit62 in reply to SeasideSusie]

thanks for the clarification - would still avoid taking multiple doses though given the B6 content

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Gambit62]

Yes, I often caution against B6 doses in amounts more than 10mcg daily.