Vitamin levels, advice please? Registrar says I have generalised anxiety disorder

[Liza7891]

Hi everyone further to my first post. I am 34 years old, female and I have Hashimotos as per advice and private blood test results.

I have cold hands, sometimes I break into a sweat from hardly moving at all, tired, losing hair, pale skin, rashes on body, splitting nails, clotty periods, dry eyes, vibrating feeling in fingers, nerve pain, headaches, forgetfulness, bone pain, painful periods which I was told would stop when I was in my late 20s, getting agitated, puffy and dark eyes, feeling cold, dry mouth which causes my gums to bleed and fluctuating weight, I am not at all big, I am still very slim and petite and have tried everything to gain weight to no avail and that was when my appetite returned as from 2012 - 2015 I became very anorexic due to a goitre that came and went if not for my line of work which ended in late 2016 and I am now in a more steady full-time job. Endocrinology suspect I have Addison's Disease or coeliac and I am to undergo a test for cortisol and a coeliac screen.

Any advice on below bloods appreciated, I take vitamin D since January 2014, was taking iron since August 2013 - May 2016, then again in February 2017 - June 2018, folic acid since November 2016 and B12 injections since February 2017, thank you)

Liza

JANUARY 2019

FOLATE 4.2 NG/L (2.5 - 19.5)

! VITAMIN B12 1338.5 PG/L (190 - 900)

FERRITIN 284 NG/L (15 - 400)

IRON 12 UMOL/L (6 - 26)

TRANSFERRIN SATURATION 18 % (15 - 45)

! MCV 80.4 fL (83 - 98)

! MCHC 359 (310 - 350)

MCH 28.2 (28 - 32)

REB BLOOD CELL COUNT 4.42 (3.80 - 5.80)

WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT 7.14 (4.00 - 11.00)

HAEMOGLOBIN 135 (110 - 150)

PLATELET COUNT 439 (140 - 700)

NEUTROPHIL COUNT 0.2 (0.0 - 0.5)

BASOPHIL COUNT 0.0 (0.0 - 1.0)

EOSINOPHIL COUNT 0.0 (0.0 - 0.2)

LYMPHOCYTE COUNT 1.3 (0.0 - 4.0)

MONOCYTE COUNT 0.05 (0.0 - 0.8)

FEBRUARY 2019

! VITAMIN D 30.7 NMOL/L (25 - 50 INSUFFICIENCY. SUPPLEMENTATION IS INDICATED)

[galathea]

If you have been taking folic acid for over a year and still have low results, it could be that you cant convert the folic acid into folate. (I have just discovered i have this problem). Might be worth you changing to the active version of folate.? Methyl folate is the one i am trying.

Your Mcv, is low but the mchc is high, both could be attributed to low folate levels. and to low iron.

Are you going to take some d3? If you do, it might be worth getting some vitamin K2 which helps maintain calcium levels.

Xx

[dtate2016 in reply to galathea]

Yes try the methylated B vitamins that have methylated folate. I have Hashimoto’s and was told the same thing that there was something wrong with my mind. Funny how things cleared up when I received the right T3 T4 combination thyroid hormone supplementation. anxiety also cleared up when I started taking the methylated B vitamins that include the folate. Most of us are also magnesium deficient. I am amazed at how much anxiety goes away when I have the methylation process under control.

The clotting periods, pretty much all of the symptoms you just mentioned I had all of those at a time when I was totally untreated for Hashimoto’s yes in my early 20s and 30s. They continued when I was under treated as well. When I took T4 only. I later found out that people with Hashimoto’s many times have a conversion problem - they cannot convert the T4 to T3 the result is under treatment even though the TSH may look fine. Consequently when we treat the gut we do better with absorbing the nutrients and supplements that we take.

I also take enzymes booth proteolytic enzyme‘s and Digestive enzymes. It’s amazing what they do for the energy! This sounds like a lots of patches and it is. There are those that say we can heal Hashimoto’s by removing gluten and dairy and other triggers. I believe there’s something to that. For me I have varying degrees of success because for my busy lifestyle it’s very very hard to remove all those things consistently.

This sounds very much like the symptoms I had again with untreated and under treated Hashimoto’s.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Liza7891

Vitamin D, folate and some iron results all too low

Iron panel results

MCHC is too high & MCV low. MCH rock bottom

humanbean or SeasideSusie may pop along to comment . They are iron test experts

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to SlowDragon]

Liza7891

High MCHC with low MCV can suggest iron deficiency anaemia. MCH mirrors MCV.

However, your ferritin isn't low, and low ferritin also suggests iron deficiency anaemia.

FERRITIN 284 NG/L (15 - 400)

IRON 12 UMOL/L (6 - 26)

TRANSFERRIN SATURATION 18 % (15 - 45)

Was there a TIBC result with this iron panel?

[posthinking01]

I thought I had posted a reply so re sending here so apologies if shows twice

Hi I am not a Dr just someone who has regular blood tests (every three months for the last 25 years) for Lupus and other complex metabolic issues I have and I can't see too much wrong with these tests but do see a lot wrong with your symptoms. Here is a link which might help you understand what it all means.

verywellhealth.com/mean-cor...

Can I ask you a couple of questions please - are you being given B12 injections under medical prescription i.e. has a Dr told you that you need them.

Also whilst you are being told to take Vitamin D - it can cause calcium levels to rise - see side effects.

Vitamin D Side Effects

•Kidney stones.

•Confusion or disorientation.

•Muscle weakness.

•Bone pain.

•Weight loss or poor appetite.

•Extreme thirst.

•Frequent urination.

•Nausea, vomiting, or constipation.

Your B12 levels are high - here are side effects

healthline.com/health/food-...

Whenever I get odd symptoms I think what I have eaten - touched (skin issues) or taken in the way of supplements - sometimes we might be told we need to take something but you have to realise sometimes our metabolism is so skewed they won't help until the other issues are sorted out - or supplement in much smaller doses - the body doesn't need high amounts as the liver or kidneys just can't cope ........if we don't have the pathways clear to metabolise them then the vitamin etc. will just build up in the body causing trouble. I know this happened with me with zinc levels - and B6 when I found out my progesterone levels were low and progesterone metabolises B6 B12 and zinc so until I got that sorted out there was no pathway for them to get to the right area.

I see you are being tested for Addison's - I too am diagnosed with adrenal insufficiency but don't recognise your symptoms but what I can tell you is that the adrenals if they are suffering grab all the vitamin C they need to keep you alive - I actually had a hysterectomy scar widening - I would have thought I was going mad but thank goodness a couple of weeks before had been reading a book on the discovery of Scurvy (sad I know but my interest is nutrition) - and one of the symptoms was scars opening up and of course teeth bleeding and falling out etc. - so would say because your teeth are bleeding you need Vitamin C at least 1,000 mg.

Could be gut issue malabsorption issue like coeliac.

Hope this helps

A

[HLAB35]

Hope someone comes along about the procedure you should follow to get answers about the test anomalies in accordance with the literature from ThyroidUK.. especially wrt. MCH and vit d. levels.

I agree with Slow Dragon - your vit d is low and you are possibly anemic - the ferritin being mid range does not mean things are normal since other red blood cell markers indicate possible deficiency(ies). (Ferritin can be abnormally high due to inflammation). People will assume you must be supplementing b12 for levels that high - unless you have something else going on to increase b12 levels....?

This definitely warrants further investigation as it is not completely obvious* what's going on here**. It could be that you have some intestinal bleeding going on which is why it'd be worth ruling out celiac or crohn's.

*Folate is low but folate anemia typically results in high mcv - which is why I'm a bit confused.

**Iron is on the low end of mid range. Typically iron needs to be lower than this to get very low mcv. I suspect the high b12 could be warping the results, although this is not something I've ever seen before... usually high folate masks b12 deficiency, but maybe the reverse is possible??

Ok, just editing my response here as I have done some thinking. It could be that you have a MTHFR defect as you are not doing very well on folic acid and you have some of the symptoms of a B6 deficiency - especially wrt your periods and peripheral nerve issues. There is such a thing as B6 deficiency anaemia which could explain your weird blood results. It means that you need methylated folate and the p5p version of B6 plus some Magnesium to make the p5p work. Many recommend the B complex by Igennus that has both in it as well as methylcobalamin: one tablet rather than two is often enough once levels are good. Igennus also do a 'Neurobalance' tablet that contains p5p, zinc and Magnesium which might help. I will update with links about B6 later...

[spongecat]

MK-7 is generally recommended on this site as it's made from a fermented form of soy (natto). Fine in small quantities as in K2 MK-7 100mcg dose as far as I'm concerned but your mileage might vary!

[HLAB35]

Just edited my response... think you may possibly have an unusual anaemia due to low b6.

[HLAB35]

OK, so your active b6 could be very low for the following reasons... Please note I say 'active' b6, because ironically your blood levels of b6 as pyridoxine could actually be high (see the final link). This is theoretical of course and needs checking..

1) Bleeding gums is a sign of poor collagen status. B6 is needed for collagen to work (also coenzyme q10 and vitamin c).

2) Your white blood cell counts are all very low... this is worrying.

3) You can't absorb folic acid properly which makes you a possible candidate for a MTHFR mutation that means that you need methylcobalamin, methylfolate AND a coenzymated version of B6 which is p5p. Also, your doctor has clearly already found that you have had low b12 and you need injections for that... another reason why you may have a fault in MTHFR gene.

Ben Lynch ND explains the difference between folic acid and folate here.

youtube.com/watch?v=oZzR1NM...(Not working as expected?)

4) You have low vitamin d despite supplementing. Vit d requires Magnesium to properly get absorbed. Magnesium works best if there is plenty of b6 available.

5) Your endocrinologist is concerned about your adrenal status and nutrient absorption. This is not surprising as you need good b vitamin levels to keep your adrenals healthy.

6) You have difficult periods..

"The activated form of B6 (P-5-P or P5P) works at almost every aspect of the PMS story. It even works for severe PMS (called PMDD). P5P is essential for the synthesis of steroid hormones, particularly progesterone. It’s involved in the manufacture of the key neurotransmitters: both GABA and serotonin. B6 also promotes anti-inflammatory prostaglandins and assists with the healthy detoxification of estrogen." taken from

larabriden.com/the-end-of-p...

These are the other links that could help..

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

terrytalksnutrition.com/hea...

easy-immune-health.com/vita...