Hi
Can any members recommend the best known brand of levo please ? Iv recently began adding 50mcg of levo by mercury pharma to my 1 grain x 2 of armour and im feeling drained and lethargic just wondering if it's the brand of levo ? Iv been advised by the gp to add levo due to low T4 levels on my blood test 2 weeks ago any advice greatly appreciated thanks in advance
There is no best known brand. They all have fillers and some people react to certain fillers some to others, and some don't react at all. You just have to find what's best for you. The one brand of Levo that we hear most about causing problems is Teva, but some people do very well with that brand.
Does your GP know that taking NDT can often lower FT4?
What were your result that prompted your GP to suggest adding Levo to your Armour?
Thanks seasidesusie i couldn't actually get to the surgery to collect the copy due to closing over Xmas period but il pick them up Wednesday and post on here my TSH was very low too but to be honest as you probably know from my previous posts my gp is insane and is convinced T3 is not as important as T4 and doesn't play an important role (shocker) another gp that has no idea and needs to be a member here to educate himself : )
As you are taking NDT - your blood results cannot equate with the ones used by doctors as they are for levothyroxine (T4) alone. The aim on NDT is to increase dose by 1/4 tablet (1 grain) every two weeks until symptoms are relieved.
NDT contains all of the hormones a healthy gland would produce. I shall give you a couple of links which might be helpful.
Copy and paste the following tinyurls onto a new page:-
tinyurl.com/ycxpz565
tinyurl.com/ya5blrr2
tinyurl.com/y7ejh9sh
Thankyou , yes he knows I self medicate with armour and to be honest I'd sooner take advice from members here than the surgery in fact I think I should increase my dose like you advised instead of taking levo and armour thankyou for the links and advice
As levothyroxine made me far more unwell than before being diagnosed, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. NDT is more conducive to the human body as it is made from animals' thyroid glands, whereas levothyroxine is a synthetic T4 which should convert to T3.
I did say this to him and I obviously have trouble converting as I was so desperately ill on levo alone but he is convinced the reason my blood tests are low is due to not being correctly medicated and that being a true believer in "us thyroid lot " needing levo only (laughs) he advised the addition of levo , why on earth was i about to add levo oh my gosh sometimes I scare myself . Lol
Commonsense should come into the prescribing of thyroid hormones i.e. if the patient is still complaining on levothyroxine and suffering with disabling symptoms or even developing more, surely options should be prescribed.
Now - in UK - it seems that instead of 'options' being available they've withdrawn them in favour of levothyroxine alone which is disastrous for people like us and there are quite a number on this forum suffering badly through ignorance of doctors and endocrinologists.
I do hope that Dr Skinner's staff are able to publish their Research soon on what they found through patients being referred to him and who resolved their disabling symptoms and many (10,000)stated he saved their lives.
Dr S was the last of doctors who were trained in clinical symptoms as student doctors as he recognised straight away when the patient walked into his surgery what could be the problem and also prescribed other than levo when patient was not improving on it or who remained undiagnosed.
It would seem that the 'organisations' forget that there are very unwell people who are suffering through the now 'stringent' regulations that prevent doctors from prescribing options of thyroid hormones on a trial basis. They completely ignore desperate patients who remainundiagnosed until TSH is 10 or even well over this and those patients are thought of as 'difficult' if they keep appearing in the surgery asking for help.
Thankyou , yes I totally agree and I think I fall into the category doctors class as "hypercondriac " as my gp used to insist my symptoms were all in my head as levo was " curing" my hypothyroidism, so he prescribed me Prozac the prescription of which I literally threw back at him in utter disbelief , it's disgusting I doubt he would let a member of his immediate family suffer like this so why is it ok to let other human beings suffer , I see no hope for this changing if im honest , it's a constant worry for me and I can do without anxiety and stress.
I think the majority on this forum have lost faith completely in doctors.
None of mine could diagnose a patient who was eventually very unwell and - to 'reassure' me Doctor said I will do a Full Blood Test - as I desperately told him there was something 'seriously' wrong with me and I would pay for a whole body scan.
His reassurance was that he'd do many tests and he did - about 23 and phoned me at home to tell me that my blood tests were fine and I had no problems.
I was devasted but got my own blood test about three days later which showed TSH of 100.
Looking back on my past results (just recently) the TSH on his long list of tests he completely ignored a TSH of 95.5 and it stated 'doctor - no action'. Where would I be now if I hadn't found Thyroiduk ! no forum then.
The fact is that many of us who go-it-alone can recover with support on the forum which was unavailable in the past.
My whole view of GP's has changed. I blindly went through life believing if there was anything wrong with me the doctor would fix it. I'm sure there are sympathetic, good doctors out there I just think they are a rarity and most lose their compassion along the way. It's a scary thought going it alone but those of us with a tsh below 10 who the gps/ endos refuse to treat have to and those who don't do well on levo have to aswell. The knowledge, time and kindness on this forum is immeasurable.
My gp withdrew my levo i was taking 150mcg but still gravely ill he wouldn't prescribe me any until my medical notes (full history ) were recieved from my previous gp which strangely disapeared when I moved , 6 months later still no medical notes or levo i collapsed whilst DRIVING ! id had a stroke was air lifted to hospital and quickly diagnosed with hypothyroidism which I tried to explain i already knew but was struggling to speak , my daughter explained id been refused my levo by current gp the consultant was GOBSMACKED and immediately wrote to gp and gave me a dose of 175mcg and a prescription for 6 months supply it took me 12 months to recover and I have had 7 T.I.As in the last 2 years all directly related to instant withdrawal of T4 levo , even though levo made me so ill I still took it as I didn't know i wasn't converting until the day I randomly came across this group , im not afraid to say I honestly 100% think that stroke and this group saved my life , iv learned so much here and everyday i learn a little more , god send ...
You have grounds for suing this doctor for negligence as you have been harmed through his negligence.
Don't be afraid as you are in the right and he should have his licence revoked for completley ruining your health and causing you and your family unnecessary suffering, mental and physical.
This forum should be compulsory reading for training new doctors - regardless of what they will finally decide to be expert in - GPs in particular need to be better trained and it would seem at present they are ignorant and only seem to know about a TSH and believe if it is anywhere in the range we're on sufficient.
I have thought about that long and hard but to be honest I suffer terribly from stress and anxiety and think it would send me over the edge but yes if I was well enough I would have taken it further , thank you for your reply
I understand completely.
It is so stressful for people who aren't yet on an optimum dose of whatever thyroid hormones enable them to resolve their symptoms, that our body/brain cannot cope with other stresses which comes through hypo. Unless someone has undergone the same experience they wouldn't understand. The fact also that doctors are restricted in what they can prescribe exacerbates the situation.
I had a cortisol test as I'm convinced my adrenals are responsible for my rapid 3st weight gain in just over a year but GP said it came back "normal " im now going to go for a "proper " cortisol and saliva test with medichecks as I have no faith left in my GP any more , for obvious reasons, I was seriously considering buying adrenavive ? But gp didnt know anything about it plus im not clued up enough to just self medicate but my symptoms are exactly that of high cortisol levels and adrenals in over drive , iv suffered significant stress in my life and I have a severely disabled son with life limited illnesses and obviously that causes me a lot of worry and anxiety , I just don't know how to get well I'm taking every known and advised vitamin and im still piling on weight i only eat vegetables chicken salmon and fruit but im still obese 11.5 st and im only 5ft a lot of weight to carry , just can't shift it and that's apparently symptomatic of adrenals in trouble , any advice greatly appreciated
Levothyroxine does cause weight gain in some people. I also know of one expert who liked to get the adrenals fixed out but another who stated that when on an optimum dose, the adrenals should fix themselves.
This is a link and it will come as a surprise I believe to many who have weight gain due to levo or too low a dose:-
stopthethyroidmadness.com/h...
Thankyou , I read everyone of those stories and im baffled why after 6 months of changing to NDT am I still gaining weight and am gluten free and almost dairy free except for milk in my 2 cups of tea a day , I think I should drink more water but apart from that I'm still desperate to find out why the weight isnt shifting , I feel so much better on armour and WP but im likea beach whale and its seriously effecting my mental health its become an obsession to lose weight which is why i stupidly increased my NDT to 3 grains instead of gradual , exasperated is an understatement but that link gave me hope for the future
If your weight isn't decreasing and you get your blood test and post the results with the ranges onto a new post you will get more comments.
The aim is a TSH of 1 or lower with Free T4 and Free T3 in the upper part of the ranges and our vitamins/minerals also have to be optimal.
It is very frustrating and unexplained weight gain certainly damages our self-esteem but the STTM women, I doubt lost their weight within a few months - probably longer.
One of our Advisers - now deceased only took one blood test and thereafter dose was based upon clinical symptoms and relief thereof. I shall give you some of his links. You'll have to copy and paste onto a new page.
tinyurl.com/ycxpz565
tinyurl.com/ya5blrr2
tinyurl.com/y7ejh9sh
Thankyou much appreciated
Can you start another post once you get a copy of your results. Then we can comment on those and be more accurate as to whether there are good or whether you should increase your NDT by a quarter. Your doctor hasn't a clue that once taking T3 in any form the results are read differently! TSH should be suppressed, FT4 can be lower in its range but if correctly dosed FT3 should be high in its range but never over. From your comments it's sounds like your results are showing the correct pattern but without the actual numbers we can't tell whether you are on the correct dose for you.
I'm going to get a full bloodtest check from medichecks and will start a new post iv just started on 3 x 1 grain of WP so I'm interested to see what's happening as I was on 2 x 1 grain of armour until a week ago but increase in price forced me to change , I must say I do seem to have more energy , thank you for your advice really is appreciated
Gosh an increase of a grain is a huge increase. Usually when we reach 2 grains then the directive is to increase in quarters. I got up to two grains starting out and at 2 I felt good but not as good as I'd been expecting-I'd started out on my thyroid journey over 30 years ago with NDT so had previous experience. Anyway I plodded on adding in quarters till I reached 3 grains. I still didn't think I was improving but didn't feel any worse either! When I started NTD again I knew I have an Endo appointment booked so worked out when to start so hopefully a successful transition would be accomplished by then and I would get tested. So that bit worked out well but I was over medicated! The Endo told me to drop down to 1.75 which surprisingly was right for me. Following instructions to keep increasing by half grains up to 2 then increasing in wuartersi had missed my sweet spot! So that is why we are advised to continue slowly so that is less likely to happen hence my comment that is a huge leap into the unknown. By changing brands you may need an adjustment for that alone so I would have continued on the same dose to see how you adapted to it then take it from where whether to retest or do a tweak first.
Everything in the Thyroid world works slowly so we have to plod along slowly as well or risk having to go back to square one. Remember that NDT is natural but still consists of T4 and T3. The actual T3 will give you a quick lift but the T4 component still needs time to build up so could easily send you over medicated and you could miss your sweet spot. We all have the urge to feel better but we can't speed it up too quickly or we can end up starting again.
Oh wow im such a numpty , your right of course it was the absolute need to get well quick that made me think 3 would be fine as I heard WP isnt as strong as armour and I felt lethargic on 2 x 1 grain of armour , thankyou for reminding me , im so glad you responded , luckily iv only taken 3 x 1 grain for 3 days so tomorrow il drop down to 2 x 1 grain and stay on that for 2 weeks then gradually increase by 1/4 grain , thankyou thankyou , note to self , slow and steady wins the race .
They say patience is a virtue! But yes our quest to get better can throw reason out of the window. I tend to be too cautious but I think it pays to be at times! I've never found over medicated an avenue I'd like to risk falling into again! I keep telling myself to listen to my body though I still find slightly over is so similar to slightly under. Before I switched back to NDT I also checked that VIT D, B12, folate and ferritin were optimal as well as they help us so much. So well worth looking at those if you haven't all ready. I've read, probably on here, that not everyone makes a good transition to taking any form of T3 and that can be down to low vitamins etc.
My vitamin levels are "fine," though im not sure what the labs version of fine is but I take 4000iu vit D3 and 2 x B complex and omega fish oil capsules and coconut oil capsule , magnesium glycinate or citrate if im constipated , 30mg of Pregnenolene which works wonders for my hot flushes they have completely vanished , my iron levels are good and ferritin levels fine as iv posted the results on here in previous posts
Was going to say until I got to your last line to refer to SeasideSusie's post re optimum levels and how to manage them but also remember we aren't getting any Vit D from the sun during the winter months!
I learned bucket loads from seasidesusie I must admit and all genuinely well meant good advice , don't know what I'd do without this forum to be honest
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