My previous threads are bugalloo so posting a new thread.
Of my repeated TSH and T4 on fasting am bloods, I got the following;
TSH 4.55 (was 4.22) (0.27 - 4.2)
T4 12.1 (was 10.8) (12-22)
Dr recommends to repeat in a month 😫... In a month I may have disintegrated into my boots, foggied and jittered my way into deep coma sleep, my fingers are so pins and needles I may not be able to post on here!
Im surprised my T4 has went more toward range direction.
Again in NHS terms very "slightly abnormal" results.
I am trying reducing my combined hrt patch by a third so its a third less estrogen and progesterone and I guess that could free up T4?
In the mean time I will push Dr for the full thyroid evaluation with ferritin etc the list off @Slowdragon administrator.
I dont know if this means ^ I am still underactive thyroid?
Why has my stimulating hormone risen but my T4 is also higer at 12.1?
Still struggling to understand the relationships between these all.
Thank you in advance
A very deflated football like Helly x
Written by
HellyLlewelly
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
The fact that the medical professionals seem to have little knowledge which consists of looking at the TSH alone coming to a conclusion.
Yours has decided (I believe) on your TSH result alone and because it is just over the top of the range that you're on sufficient hormones.
The aim, once we are diagnosed is to have a TSH around 1or lower (not higher) and the fact that your T4 (no Free T4 and no Free T3 which are important except the professionals are unaware that they both give better information). However what could possibly be better than a patient who is still complaining they are still unwell but this is dismissed because TSH is 'in range'.
The aim is a TSH of 1 or lower - a Free T4 and Free T3 should be in the upper part of the ranges.
The fact that your TSH is nearly 5 and T4 bottom of the range i.e. approx 12.
The purpose of thyroid hormones is to run our whole metabolism. Levothyroxine (T4) is inactive and has to convert to liothyronine (T3) and it is T3 which enables all of the millions of T3 receptor cells to function particularly the heart and brain which contain the most.
When you want to alert a member you have typed it correctly but not 'highlighted' the name. When we begin the @ and first few letters @S and a selection will appear below higlighted in blue and you press this and it will show as SlowDragon who will respond to your post.
Tick off your symptoms and present both to the GP - hopefully he may pay attention but may well stick to the fact that they appear to have been told not to prescribe until the TSH is 10.
ooh sorry to jump in but in addition to b12 causing pulsatile tinnitus- you may wish to also try magnesium to see if that helps.
has completely rid many of my friends and family members. hypothyroidism can cause tinnitus too but as you aren't getting treated for that you may wish to try the supplements.
I couldn't even drive or use the hoover for more than 20mins before I would get vibrations and tinnitus-drove me mad!
glad you got repeats and can understand your frustration.
it can be confusing but will try to explain a bit below:
the thyroid works on a loop/feedback system
tsh signal >t4 production in thyroid>converted to t3 (in liver)> pituitary monitors levels >tsh adjusted
tsh is the signal hormone from the pituitary(the manager) that tells the thyroid (the office worker) to produce thyroid hormone (t4)
once t4 is released, our bodies convert it into t3 (the output/profits) - the active form that reaches our cells. (hope the manager analogy helps.)
once we reach enough t3, and our levels are higher in blood, the pituitary automatically detects that and adjusts its 'signal' of TSH hormone (reduces it) to slow down the production of t4. it calibrates it automatically and continually adjusts it.
in a normal person if we have low t3, tsh rises, thyroid makes more t4, t4 rises in blood and then t3 is converted in good measure. and round and round we go.
In hypothyroids our thyroid doesn't function well- its damaged. so the pituitary can scream all it wants with sending out higher tsh hormone but the thyroid can't match production of t4-leads to low t4 levels therefore less t3....so the pituitary will keep sending out more and more tsh- to try and recover the low levels. hence we go above range tsh, but our t4 is still low.
That last bit is what your doctor does not understand. (and neither does the endo nurse!)
a 'slightly' above tsh isn't always indicative of an issue as can vary person to person-as LONG AS the t4 production is normal also- i.e. in the middle/upper third of the range.
the fact your t4 is so low shows your thyroid is struggling massively!
because your tsh has risen slightly, its managed to push the thyroid to work a tiny bit harder and raise your t4 by a miniscule amount. thats why they both increased but at some point there is burnout- your tsh will continue to rise and t4 will level out.
you should also ask for free t3 levels to show how dire they would be- and would explain why you feel so poorly.
you are sub clinical hypothyroid, but you need to get your thyroid antibodies checked (TPO and tgAB) to confirm autoimmune element which you almost certainly have given your FH hashis.
This, along with your symptoms is more than enough evidence to suggest you would benefit from thyroid treatment rather than waiting for the thyroid to be damaged more.
We already spoke about the oestrogen binding effects so it may well be that your levels improve slightly with reducing your hrt, but essentially you will most likely still be hypothyroid and need treatment eventually.
as you are also sorting your vitamin deficinecies out and adjusting hrt you may wish to wait one more month as your doctor suggests and retry- if its still low you are perfectly within right to demand a trial dose. the danger may be that your levels come just within range again and they ignore it. however your FH and antibody tests will suggest where its going to end up in future.
you can slow the thyroid attack with gluten free interventions and selenium etc also so do continue with that in meantime.
I Really do get your Bigg Boss and Office Worker analogy but with this fog I am completely trying my darndest to hear my cogs go click click click I "get it"...the fog has me feeling Ive half a brain.
I tried for 5 minutes last night to take 91 away from 990 and said to my husband you wouldn't think I was a B grade in A-level maths..I am completely struggling with every day arithmatic and with remembering if Ive taken pills etc.....
I amlost left my son on the school bus the other day as I forgot the time!
That really makes sense ^
I converted it into a diagram in my head.
I can understand my T4 being pushed up ever so slightly as my
TSH works harder (being relased by the big boss) to fuel the engine.
I will avoid doing much in terms of protecting the thyroid in the next month as I dont want to muddy the body processes that are inevitably ongoing.
In the month of December the changes of me going gluten free are like Unicorns appearing and sprinkling me with T3 and T4 out their arses for Christmas 😂😂😂😂
Thank you so much!
-Thyroid you will NEVER take my sense of humour, you may take my last lifes puff of energy but not my giggles
lol I absolutely understand @ xmas. I was so ill with gluten this time last year I naturally went gluten free. Im able to tolerate it much better now and cant see myself going gluten free in totality again.
and ditto!@ maths and everyday arithmetic. not meaning to brag but I was brilliant at maths and absolutely loved it (was going to study at university also) and had a photographic memory but I suddenly found myself in sheer panic when I had to do sums- just blanked out and couldn't do basic things.
thankfully once my b12 was sorted most of my memory came back and now I have thyroid controlled that brain fog has lifted. you don't realise what you had until it's gone! I initially put it down to lifes stresses and getting older but when my maths and memory became so bad I knew there was more to it than that.
hang in there- there is light at the end of the tunnel. and hopefully your GP will jump on board soon as even he can't ignore 3 borderline tests.
Certain enzymes become elevated with stress and inflammation too- could be related to recent infection or ongoing chronic inflammation.
I’m not completely sure of a direct link to thyroid but I have always had issues with liver also and many hypos do.
Also tends to be non fatty liver tissue problems (not alcohol related).
A sluggish liver- where a lot of vitamins are processed and conversion takes place and along with adrenals means it goes hand in hand with hypos. Izabella wentz advises a liver detox as first protocol to challenging hashis.
Adrenals and liver are crucial for us so I wouldn’t be surprised.
There is a circadian rhythm to our thyroid hormones, so FT4 fluctuates throughout the day. If your tests weren't done at the same time of day each time, then there will be a difference in the result.
I can't find my link to the graphs of TSH/FT4/FT3 and how they fluctuate at the moment.
humanbean Do you have a link to the post that shows these graphs please?
I can only tell you how I do it on m PC which has Internet Explorer 11 as my browser.
In the top right hand corner there is a house symbol which is for the home page, a star symbol which is for favourites and a cog symbol for tools.
I click on the star symbol, it turns yellow and up pops a box with the option of ADD TO FAVOURITES. There is an arrow which gives access to a drop down menu which gives the option of ADD TO FAVOURITES or ADD TO FAVOURITES BAR. You click on whichever one you want to store the page.
If you choose ADD TO FAVOURITES you can put them in folders, like a filing cabinet.
If you choose ADD TO FAVOURITES BAR they appear near the top of the page, above the web page you are using. As the bar fills up (mine shows the latest 5) they are added to a drop down list which is accessed by >> which shows at the end of those pages showing on the favourites bar.
I have Internet Explorer 11 and you can see ths explained here
My T4 was 9am and 4.30pm acvording to the graph very similar levels I was 10.8 and 12
My TSH according to these times on the graph are also pretty similar levels with there only being .5 on the graph of a difference and my resukts were 9am 4.55 and 4.30pm 4.22
Im not great at graph reading but thr real crazy spikes are happening at night time when tye blood wouldnt be drawn anyway?
Am I reading this right?
Ive just had a 4pm blood draw abd checking antibodies TPO? I think they said.
My T4 was 9am and 4.30pm acvording to the graph very similar levels I was 10.8 and 12
Yes, those times they are similar levels on the graph. The results are reasonably close, just 1.2 difference and your level has just crept 0.1 into the range from originally below range.
The TSH graph seems to show a difference of around 0.5 as you say.
Yes, TSH is highest at midnight and lowest at 1pm, as I always mention when discussing timing of blood tests, and because we can't get a blood test at midnight then the earliest possible time for blood draw - no later than 9am - is recommended when the highest possible TSH is needed.
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
TSH and T4 both dropped 
TSH 4.96 and Free T4 11.9
Very low TSH and High T4
The relationship between Tsh and T4 
Latest bloods using T4 & T3
