NDT Naturally Desiccated Thyroid

[metomorrow]

Hi, have been taking 200mg/day of Levothyroxine but recently discovered there is a natural product available called NDT. However it would seem there is great reluctance to prescribe it despite some evidence that suggests it is better for some people. The key ingredient missing from the synthetic version I'm told is T3. Although my thyroid level is as it should be I do suspect, though I have no proof, that some of the outstanding issues I have could be down to this missing T3 component in the synthetic version. I was just wondering if anyone here has had experience of changing to NDT and how they managed to get it prescribed, if it made any difference in particular for men.

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

metomorrow

Many members take NDT, also some take a combination of synthetic Levo and T3.

Don't be fooled into thinking NDT is totally natural, it's not. Yes, it's made from pigs' thyroid gland but it has to be made into tablets so it needs excipients which are synthetic.

To know whether you would benefit from changing to NDT (or a T4/T3 synthetic combination), you'd need a full thyroid panel including

TSH

FT4

FT3

Thyroid antibodies

and because we need optimal nutrient levels for any thyroid hormone to work it's essential to also test

Vit D

B12

Folate

Ferritin

If you have these results and would like to post them, along with their reference ranges, members will be happy to comment.

[metomorrow in reply to SeasideSusie]

Hi, thank you for this advice. I don't currently have all the specifics to hand you mention but will see what I can find out. To my mind leaving out a component would seem a wrong thing to do as there must be a need for it in some way. Another question now, is the synthetic T3 element easier to obtain and try?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to metomorrow]

To my mind leaving out a component would seem a wrong thing to do as there must be a need for it in some way

It's not particularly a case of leaving a component out. Many patients (in fact probably the bigger majority) can convert T4 to T3 well enough. It's those that don't convert well enough that need NDT or T4/T3 combination. This is why we need FT4 and FT3 tested at the same time to see how well we convert. Also optimal nutrient levels can contribute to good conversion.

[metomorrow in reply to SeasideSusie]

Just out of interest, do all the components listed here get tested for thyroid when diagnosed and subsequently as the level is normalised?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to metomorrow]

No. Some GPs only test TSH. Some test TSH plus FT4. Mine test TSH, FT4 and FT3 because my TSH is always suppressed.

Thyroid antibodies are only tested if they think there is a need, and that's not very often.

Nutrient levels aren't tested as a matter of course. We need to ask for those. Some doctors will do them if they think there is a need, some wont.

Hundreds of us do private tests with labs recommended by ThyroidUK because we can't get full testing with our doctors.

[metomorrow in reply to SeasideSusie]

Sounds expensive.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to metomorrow]

You can get the whole lot done for between £79 and £99 with a fingerprick test (or venous blood draw at extra cost).

[metomorrow in reply to SeasideSusie]

Okay, that's not too bad but I guess if you started on NDT you would need further blood test to check levels? If as in my case I take 200mg per day, is it a just a case of transposing that into an equivalent amount in NDT? Eg if 1mg Levothyroxine equals 2mg NDT then it would mean 400mg of NDT. This is just an example I don't know what the formula is.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to metomorrow]

I've not changed from Levo to NDT but other members have who would be able to guide you.

Once you've had the full set of tests done, if you need to work on vitamins and minerals then you'd retest a few months later to see how your levels have improved. I do mine once a year now.

Basic thyroid monitoring - TSH, FT4 and FT3 - from time to time whilst tweaking doses until you find your optimal dose, then once, maybe twice a year, as a GP would. I buy my thyroid monitoring test when it's on offer, usually £29 or £31.

[metomorrow in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you. Sounds like you've got it Sussed.

[metomorrow in reply to SeasideSusie]

Where do you get the tests done?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to metomorrow]

Medichecks medichecks.com/thyroid-health

Or Blue Horizon bluehorizonmedicals.co.uk/t...

[metomorrow in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you.

[jgelliss in reply to SeasideSusie]

So True . Many believe that NDT is pure and Natural . Not So . The fillers they add is certainly not natural . Some NDT have more fillers than some other NDT .

[metomorrow in reply to jgelliss]

Thank you. I don't necessarily mind it being synthetic as such though these days it feels advantageous if it is. All I want really is to know if it works better than Levothyroxine.

[greygoose]

Levo is not a synthetic version of NDT as such. It is synthetic T4. You can also get synthetic T3, which can be added to it.

Although NDT is called 'natural', it's not as natural as all that. Every pills must have fillers, but the hormone content does come from pigs' thyroids - although, I've heard, synthetic hormone can sometimes be added to it.

But, NDT doesn't suit everyone, anymore than levo does. Some people do need T3 because they cannot convert T4 to T3 very well. But for some people, the synthetic version do just as well - or even better.

Doctors are reluctant to prescribe it for several reasons - one of them being that they know nothing about it. They learnt in med school that T4 is all that is necessary, and that everyone converts perfectly! They are very under-educated! So, a lot of people buy their own, on-line.

NDT, for whatever reason, can be a life-saver for some people. So, always worth a try if you can get hold of it. But, for some people, like me, it makes things worse. We all have to find what suits us best by trial and error.

Doubtful if your GP will prescribe it, but have you seen an endo at any point? There are some endos that will prescribe it but, personally, I don't know where you'd find one. Hopefully, someone who has had it prescribed will come along and help - although they will probably do that by Private Message, as we're not allowed to do that sort of thing on the open forum.

[metomorrow in reply to greygoose]

Thank you. I want trial it essentially to see. It may not make any difference but I won't know until I've tried it. To my mind if T3 is missing then it shouldn't be as there would be a reason for its presence.

[greygoose in reply to metomorrow]

That's what I'm saying.

But, if you haven't had your FT3 tested, you don't know if you're missing it, do you? Obviously there's a reason for it, it's the active thyroid hormone. T4 is a storage hormone. Some people convert T4 to T3 very well and are healthy on T4 only. Others don't. But, you won't know how well you convert until you've had your FT4 and FT3 tested at the same time, and compared them. T3 will never be missing completely, though. You will always convert to a certain extent. Just depends how much.

[metomorrow in reply to greygoose]

Thank you. Very interesting.

[greygoose in reply to metomorrow]

You're welcome.

[metomorrow in reply to greygoose]

Do all levels get tested in the standard test for diagnosis?

[shaws Administrator]

We used to get NDT freely prescribed until (I would think) Big Pharma wanted an exclusive use of levothyroxine alone along with their blood tests so profits keep towards optimum.

Before levothyroxine (T4 only) was introduced and prescribed we were given the option of the original thyroid hormone replacement, NDT - natural dessicated thyroid hormones which contains all of the hormones a healthy gland would do - in use safely since 1892 without any blood tests but only going by patient's clinical symptoms. No blood tests but doctor diagnosing by clinical symptoms of patient and they were very skilled at this.

We also used to be prescribed T3 added to T4 if not improving T4 alone but this was also removed without any notice leaving many, many people on a limb and unwell again. It wasn't the patient's fault that the suppliers of T3 raised the cost so high and exorbitant.

If NDT was prescribed since 1892 up until a few years ago, why were False Statements made about it? Thousands have recovered on it. It was the Professional Organisations which produced the reason for its removal.

You'd think they'd be a bit compassionate for those who cannot recover on levothyroxine.

This link was by one of our (deceased) Advisers who wrote the following and despite three yearly reminders for a response they never did before he died.

thyroidscience.com/Criticis...

[metomorrow in reply to shaws]

Thank you for replying. This is something I've heard. It's all wrong they take your money so we should be able to choose.

[shaws Administrator in reply to metomorrow]

We should have the ability to choose. It was the British Thyroid Association, I believe, that withdrew it so they had to make a statement to warrant doing so, despite thousands of people recovering.

The above Adviser (Dr Lowe) who wrote to the BTA etc also developed an NDT called Thyro Gold and made it expressly so it did not need a prescription. His widow now runs this - just for information.

naturalthyroidsolutions.com/

[metomorrow]

Hi, thank you for replying. How did they manage to get on NDT and what symptoms did they have beforehand?

[metomorrow]

Hi, so essentially then they pay privately and I presume guess at what dosage they need by how they feel. Is this right?

Also how much per month does NDT cost?

[metomorrow in reply to metomorrow]

Hi, how would I know where to start? You mention two kinds, are they different compounds? Or are they the Same one essentially being more expensive due to the supplier?

[Joad467]

You can get thai 1000 for around 50 pounds

[metomorrow in reply to Joad467]

Thanks, how long would that last?

[Joad467]

I take 3 a day so about at least a year

[metomorrow in reply to Joad467]

Hi, sorry for all the question but each reply prompts another. Can you tell me if you need a prescription for them? How did you decide on 3 per day? Have you had a blood test just to see how your levels are?

[Joad467]

Hi I didn't do well on levo,so bought thiroyd no prescription needed,I worked up every two weeks starting on 1 grain until my pulse and temperature improved😀

[metomorrow in reply to Joad467]

Thank you for your reply. Where do you buy from?

[Joad467]

Also bloods done every 6 months